What happened to patience?

[chibikit]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be selfish. I'm arguing that using this as a justification for releasing a licensed show is extremely lame.

Er... as I said, it was just a secondary thing. I don't see anything wrong with it being a justification for anything, though, and we were doing SEED only between episode 35-ish until Jerry Chu started walking about (what episode was that... 40? 41? Like I said, my memory is pretty rusty). Apparently you've mistaken us for Haro^2. -_-

As for the use of 'not wanting to be selfish' as a reason to release a fansub (and I'm talking unlicensed stuff here), why would it be lame?

Anyway, yes, I do agree that subbing anything because you want to be famous is kind of weird, to say the least. I've always thought that you'd sub because you like the show and either you want to know what happens next or want to show people how good it really is. But then different people have different motivations so who are we to knock them for it?

[LytHka]

Originally Posted by monir

What are the aspects deriving to the consideration-of-a-quality-release?

I was under the impression that Anbu got their fame actually by doing "good work."

Again, what is considered a quality-based shows?

About anbu: I set the starduck thing as an example of infamy. They are good at what they do.

A base for quality releases are of course people working on the show. Now, we already discussed this in another thread not very long ago. My conclusion of that thread was if you have enough experienced fansubbers working on a show, you can release it quite fast with quality results. But if the show is done by mere fansubber-wanabe fans, then there's without a doubt justified fear of the releases not being as good as they could be. My personal opinion is that if you do not put your experience or at least best efforts in a release (if you lack experience), then you shouldn't release at all. And please, we all know that some groups ARE doing it for "fame" and being the first to release. I was once in a similar group, I know how these things go. And it's quite a correct logic if you want to continue the tradition of fast releases. You get your popularity that way, too.

[LordBrian]

Originally Posted by chibikit

Apparently you've mistaken us for Haro^2. -_-

Not really. I probably just mistook you for, well, any group that subs Gundam, even though it's well known that any Gundam show is already prelicensed -- whether or not someone from the company is asking people to stop subbing.

And to be perfectly honest, I'd probably consider any argument in favor of working on a licensed show at its core to be lame, no matter what it was.

Originally Posted by monir

Again, what is considered a quality-based shows?

For the record, I don't really consider any of Triad's current shows to be "quality-based."

[Kyusaku]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

What does it matter whether the group they're downloading from is high quality or not? As you've said, they only pay attention to the filenames. I think they're smart enough to at least be able to read the group tag. If they read the group's tag, that's one more person that knows about the group. It doesn't matter if the user ditches the group the next week. The public still knows about them.

I sure wish they cared about the group tag. I've known so many leechers to immediately delete the group tag from the filename and download any version they can get their hands on as soon as possible. I remember on my college's filesharing network to see so many fansubbed files no longer carrying group tags, encodes mixed with multiple groups because they got what was the first group they could get their hands on. Best example would be Naruto encodes. I'd downoad Naruto for a friend and would have to compare the filesize of 1 tagged file to like 50 untagged files to make sure I'd find TW's encodes for him.

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by Kyusaku

I sure wish they cared about the group tag. I've known so many leechers to immediately delete the group tag from the filename and download any version they can get their hands on as soon as possible. I remember on my college's filesharing network to see so many fansubbed files no longer carrying group tags, encodes mixed with multiple groups because they got what was the first group they could get their hands on. Best example would be Naruto encodes. I'd downoad Naruto for a friend and would have to compare the filesize of 1 tagged file to like 50 untagged files to make sure I'd find TW's encodes for him.

Wow, now that's what I call a generalization! I just love how you assume that since some people you know ignore the tags, everyone does. Or maybe you meant some other group of people by your usage of "they"?

[Heibi]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

Wow, now that's what I call a generalization! I just love how you assume that since some people you know ignore the tags, everyone does. Or maybe you meant some other group of people by your usage of "they"?

And I know people who only delete the group tags to put things in alphabetical order on their system. No intention of ignoring the group. Especially since the groups name usually appears in the credits the group uses. Thus, tag errasure means nothing in my book. I wish groups would put their tag after the name of the show.

[Kyusaku]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

Wow, now that's what I call a generalization! I just love how you assume that since some people you know ignore the tags, everyone does. Or maybe you meant some other group of people by your usage of "they"?

I tried to use the file-sharing network as a broader example from people I know, I guess you didn't understand that.

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by Kyusaku

I tried to use the file-sharing network as a broader example from people I know, I guess you didn't understand that.

You should be more careful in the future. "They" is a dangerous word to use in arguments, o' befuddling adversary of mine. To show that I did in fact understand your previous argument, I'll deconstruct it for you:

I sure wish they cared about the group tag.

Here, without specifying who "they" is beforehand, is used in a manner that means ALL leechers. This type of argument is what I would consider to be a "Straw Man". You present an undefined group of people and use that as the basis of your argument by making it appear larger than it actually is and more important than it actually is.

I've known so many leechers to immediately delete the group tag from the filename and download any version they can get their hands on as soon as possible.

Now, this part of your argument does have some merit. You claim to know some people that delete the tags from their files just for the heck of it. Well, I don't have any way to contradict you as I have no proof of anything else, so I'll take your word for it. However, when coupled with the previous statement, you continue the strawman argument in an effort to make it seem as if the people that you allegedly know make up the majority. Now, hypothetically speaking, this is the same as a person saying "Some people say red ink is better than blue ink. That's why you should use red ink from now on."

I remember on my college's filesharing network to see so many fansubbed files no longer carrying group tags, encodes mixed with multiple groups because they got what was the first group they could get their hands on. Best example would be Naruto encodes. I'd downoad Naruto for a friend and would have to compare the filesize of 1 tagged file to like 50 untagged files to make sure I'd find TW's encodes for him.

Funny, I thought this whole time we were talking about Bittorrent! I wonder whatever made me think of something crazy like that... oh, I know what it was!

Originally Posted by Kyusaku

As you've noted there are thousands of anonymous leechers out there now, thanks to Bittorrent. However many of them are COMPLETE dunces when it comes to fansubbing and couldn't tell a good one from a bad one if it smacked them in the face. And if they only pay attention to torrent files, the less and less they really know about a certain group and becomes harder to know if they're really infamous or famous. People in the right fansubbing circles and those who pay attention to forums or talk on IRC can figure out and will learn a group's infamy, but what about those anonymous BT leechers?

As for your filesharing example, I'll answer that one too. I used to be a mindless leecher from Kazaa. I started downloading Inuyasha from it shortly after it was licensed and managed to find a new episode of it every couple of weeks. After a little while of this, I noticed that, despite the file not having a tag in it, there were group tags, website addresses, and IRC channels IN THE VIDEO. After that, I discovered bittorrent by going to the group's website and downloading torrents, then I followed one of their links to Animesuki. Now, I know there are probably a lot of people that don't reach "enlightenment" like I did, or even at all, but that just goes to show you that not every filesharer doesn't notice group tags even if the filename has them removed.

[SirCanealot]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

You should be more careful in the future. "They" is a dangerous word to use in arguments, o' befuddling adversary of mine. To show that I did in fact understand your previous argument, I'll deconstruct it for you

Err... he mentioned "they", then imdiately followed it up by explaining what group "they" was. Would it have made you any happier if he'd used a semicolon?

I sure wish they cared about the group tag; I've known so many leechers to immediately delete the group tag from the filename and download any version they can get their hands on as soon as possible.

Better...
Although I'd assume most kindergarten+ kids would have been able to spot the link without them.

Yes, there are spelling errors in this English-related post.
They are there for you to comment on, and say I have no ground commenting on English when I cannot even spell.
YES, they are on - a sort of - PURPOSE.

[Imazul]

I didnt quite get what that argument was about (well seeing how a certain person like to pick on every freakin details) and I dont really care tough.

Everything i share outside of bittorent is stipped from group tag and hash check (I only go with good groups I already know anyway), because the general college leecher likes to be able to read a tiitle rather than a giant tag. And its harshly true that people who dont involve themselves in the community dont care about what theyre downloading.
Thats what is fun with having friends outside a forum, you can actually learn some stuff that some people can only assume.

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by SirCanealot

Err... he mentioned "they", then imdiately followed it up by explaining what group "they" was. Would it have made you any happier if he'd used a semicolon?

Hint: After you find something you disagree with, consider continuing reading for reasoning behind logic before making a rebuttal that's already been refuted.

Just a tip from your friendly neighborhood jellyfish.

[Elepsis]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

Shows with a low number of leechers is a direct measure of their fame. I hate to say it, but only the people that watched a lesser-known (GOOD!!) show will recognize which group subbed it, and again, if it was a good show, the fansub group will be praised all over the place by the people that watched it. My Love Love subs get about 300 leechers at one time, max. After a week or two, I reach about 1500 downloads complete. However, the only people that will contribute to my fame are the people that not only watched it but also enjoyed it. Perhaps some people will know of my subs because it's on my website or because it's in my signature, but they won't give a damn about it. I also won't get a whole lot of respect from fansubbers, either. Not only do I completely wreck the japanese language their translators work hard to make sense of for English audiences but the show STINKS! Don't give me any of this crap about being famous by subbing lesser-known shows. That's a dumb generalization that shouldn't have been made.

Indeed, since you seem to be the only person making it. I certainly can't see where anyone claimed that the way to _fame_ is subbing a lesser-known show. The way to _respect in the fansubbing community_ is subbing a show twenty others AREN'T and doing a good job of it. Fame does not -- or at least should not -- figure into it.

Originally Posted by chobaka

I get the impression that you believe having a smaller number of downloads for a show you release is some kind of badge/medal of honor. Honestly, why does it matter if someone subs a show that gets 100,000 downloads or 500? It should matter that much less to you, of all people, because that is what you preach in many of your posts. And yet you yourself talk of these numbers, which shows you DO care.

Yes, I deserve a congressional medal of honor for subbing the shows I do, and the rest of you suck.

No, seriously, come on. I don't care how many downloads your show gets. Nor do I care how many downloads my show gets. What I DO care about is when number of expected downloads is a consideration in picking up a project. Do you see how that plays into the anti-famesubbing argument?

[NoSanninWa]

How about the next person to comment on this topic actually tries to comment on topic?

This topic is not about poking pointless holes in peoples statements, nor is it about the desire to keep group tags at the end of the file name, nor is it about people removing group tags completely.

I haven't banned anyone all week, but I am willing to change that fact out of sheer pique about pointless off-topic arguments.

[hooliganj]

I was going to post these thoughts earlier, but didn't because the thread seemed to have wandered away from the original topic. If we're going back to impatient fans, though...

I always wonder what some of the more impatient leechers would have been like back in the 80s/early 90s, when almost everything was an OVA, and came out one episode per month at the fastest. Were people camping the release dates, and then firing off letters (snail mail!) to the fansubbers when their VHS tapes weren't posted within the week? No, they weren't.

Everytime I start to get annoyed at a slow release, I remember Legend of the Galactic Heroes. That show came out about once every six weeks, and even then there was no guarantee that something would actually happen in that episode. Even without waiting for a subtitled version, it humbles any anger I may feel over current fansubbing rates.

Sub on, good people. Sub on.

[monir]

Originally Posted by LytHka

About anbu: I set the starduck thing as an example of infamy. They are good at what they do.

I always thought Starduck was a very loud cheerleader.

A base for quality releases are of course people working on the show. Now, we already discussed this in another thread not very long ago. My conclusion of that thread was if you have enough experienced fansubbers working on a show, you can release it quite fast with quality results.

Guess what was my next question going to be? That was if you knew about Lunar. You obviously do. They are without a doubt among the elite groups who manages to release shows as fast as those so called speed-subbers.

But if the show is done by mere fansubber-wanabe fans, then there's without a doubt justified fear of the releases not being as good as they could be. My personal opinion is that if you do not put your experience or at least best efforts in a release (if you lack experience), then you shouldn't release at all. And please, we all know that some groups ARE doing it for "fame" and being the first to release. I was once in a similar group, I know how these things go. And it's quite a correct logic if you want to continue the tradition of fast releases. You get your popularity that way, too.

I don't how anyone is going to gain experience without doing some practical work. Its not as if the experience fansubbers are eager to teach. Also, I don't see how anyone or any group can expect to gain fame (even if it is cyber) by doing crappy work. Good work will be recognized.

Originally Posted by LordBrian

For the record, I don't really consider any of Triad's current shows to be "quality-based."

I agree. In fact the only shows I have liked by The Triad were Popotan and Interlude OVA (I hope they/you finish it ^^). I asked Lythka that particular question because when someone says "this group is doing quality-based show" or something of that sort, then the statement usually reflects personal preference and liking. Lythka definitely is a shrewd one to be able to avoid such a basic trap of a question.

[LytHka]

We're going enough off-topic here, but I'll do this post just to calm down monir's "eagerness."

Originally Posted by monir

That was if you knew about Lunar. You obviously do. They are without a doubt among the elite groups who manages to release shows as fast as those so called speed-subbers.

They do good work. Want me to post a link where this topic was discussed already? Hint: AnimeSuki forums

Originally Posted by monir

I asked Lythka that particular question because when someone says "this group is doing quality-based show" or something of that sort, then the statement usually reflects personal preference and liking.

I was not talking personal preference, most fansubbers would agree with me that Triad does good work. Ex.: Ultra Maniac (Triad) - one of the best subbing jobs ever. And that's it. Now, I have said everything I wanted about this topic. To continue discussing "patience" please stay on-topic.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

For the record, I don't really consider any of Triad's current shows to be "quality-based."

Just because you don't like a show doesn't mean the group isn't doing a good job on it. The Triad does excellent work. Don't make yourself look bad by confusing quality work with a show you don't like.

[LordBrian]

...wow, I don't even know where to begin with this one.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

...wow, I don't even know where to begin with this one.

yes I see your title. Which makes me wonder even more.