2014-07-07, 18:34 | Link #263 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Well, by the time of the American Revolution, America wasn't really a big deal anymore, because India had become so much more drastically important to the Empire, but the point still stands regardless, I think.
I'm trying to think of a good example of something similar to Mars' apparent eagerness to go a-invading, and I'm struggling, to be honest. I mean, yes, Germany did undergo a cultural sea change in about thirty years, but the circumstances were fairly unique: They had lost a world war, their economy had basically run itself into the ground, their people were starving, desperate, and resentful, and those were the circumstances that made the rapid rise of the Nazis possible. Mars doesn't seem to have had anything like that at all.
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2014-07-07, 18:36 | Link #264 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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A bunch of people discovering alien technology that is powerful enough to conquer the world without the ability to check their power? I think that's a pretty massive change. We don't know enough about the initial motivation of the invaders or anyone involved. There is a lot to sort out here. It's just one episode.
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2014-07-07, 18:46 | Link #265 |
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I don't see what the Nazis have to do with anything here. The Nazis are drastically different from what we have here. My America/England analogy is much, much closer to what we have here.
WWII-era Germany was a long-established nation with a very long history and strong ethnic/racial identities amongst its people. Anti-semitism had been commonplace throughout Europe for a long time. It's not like it all just sprouted up from out of nowhere in 30 years or less. I'm honestly amazed that some people here don't seem to get the point that I'm making. It's not a question of evil, or people becoming corrupted by power. It's a question of how long it takes for a very strong and completely new ethnonational identity to take root amongst a group of explorers; an identity so strong that it would eradicate any sense of connection to the people that the explorers left behind. 30 years isn't even close to enough, in my opinion.
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2014-07-07, 18:48 | Link #266 | |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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I don't think it's that big a stretch. All you need is the people on the top to be a little unhinged. Those who feel the same will be promoted into positions of power and they'll spread those views down to those below them. The people of Mars in general don't have to be very racist, just enough to turn a blind eye to the actions of the more vocal people. What might be a little bit of racism for that general populace could lead to some terrible things if the people at the top have enough power and are motivated enough.
I think you can find examples of being being able to escalate very quickly. You get into those world wars and suddenly people are throwing citizens with Japanese heritage into internment camps. Bit trickier to pull examples of a newly formed society getting racist in a hurry since brand new countries aren't formed every day. If we really want to go with the America example, I'll say maybe. We're talking about a people coming out of a brutal war that was fought in their own territory. With the right leader in charge preaching the right message it's possible. Sure, I bet people were happy about forming their nation but they probably had a lot of feelings of anger and frustration towards the British. If a president wanted to jump onto that and create a racial debate it may have worked. The absence of it happening doesn't mean it's impossible. In the end I can buy it. Quote:
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2014-07-07, 18:51 | Link #268 | ||
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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I sometimes feel like posts that don't jive with one's argument are selectively read or outright ignored. Quote:
Not to mention the large amount of loyalists and neutral parties that didn't even want to separate from Britain prior to the American Revolution |
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2014-07-07, 18:53 | Link #269 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Is the timeline really that important? Is the 1999 and 2014 in this anime suppose to represent what our world is capable of? I think it would be best to ask that first. I mean if a race of humans became fevorish over alien technology on mars, I don't think it would take too long before they start hating earth,
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2014-07-07, 19:00 | Link #270 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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As for humanity hating Earth, that's what we're discussing, and given the timeline, it seems pretty hard to swallow that the bridge between the colonists and Earthlings would be completely burned in such a short time span. |
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2014-07-07, 19:00 | Link #271 | |
sleepyhead
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Location: event horizon
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Just about EVERY single group in history that's been big enough to mention has done what we see with our little martian friends. Sure, after a while people figured out using the word "Empire" kind of has drawbacks, so they came with more pleasant to the ear names like "Common Wealth" or "United States" or some religious something or other, etc, but for all intents and purposes group A doesn't give a damn about group B unless group B is seen as aiding it. If we do send say even as little as a few hundred to Mars expect their primary directives to kick in and have them rebel, if contact isn't maintained. And lets face it in the context of the story at hand, they hardly had the technological means to maintain it. Groups are defined, first by division A is in one place, B is another place (where "place" may be abstract), and secondly by group ideals. When everyone around you is a crazy asshole you either become a crazy asshole or get ostracized, eventually new members born into the group only have the ideals of crazy assholes. With out strong bonds to other groups, which colonists rarely tend to have, what incentive would they have not to become crazy assholes if enough raised that as the group ideal? Words are generally sugar coated, but all that's required really is "Not of our group, Evil" and you rally everyone to the "cause." You don't need to look into history books, you can see this while walking down the street if you know what to look for.
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2014-07-07, 19:07 | Link #272 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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This sounds very much like a Sawano OST, got AoT vibes music wise at the end of the episode. Am I correct?
Also I got the feeling that the supposed "princess that was hit by the missile" and the "princess that was riding that elevator" before, are different people, i.e. it was a body double that died. I think so because her face was not shown when she exited the car. |
2014-07-07, 19:10 | Link #273 | ||
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It's a totally massive stretch.
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If you moved to Mars now, right now, as part of a big colony, do you think you'd feel no connection to Earth or its people in 30 years time as a much older adult? Quote:
I strongly disagree. Some things really are evil, and I think most people are capable of realizing that.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2014-07-07 at 19:20. |
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2014-07-07, 19:15 | Link #274 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
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I do think that the Martians thinking themselves a whole other race, and the others including the counts and servants all thinking of humanity and Earth as some ancient homeland is a little farfetched, especially in only about three decades. Racism didn't happen overnight either, it took far more than three decades to culminate such ideas and feelings that were passed down through subsequent generations. Anyway you look at it, only 30 years is a very small timeline. I mean, most of those knights look 30 years old or older themselves! Why do all of them think of Earth as if they've only heard of it in myth?
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2014-07-07, 19:17 | Link #275 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Well now perhaps this really is turning into the next Guilty Crown, just as creators wanted.
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Essentially crediting someone as Original Creator is no different crediting a manga/LN author in an adaptation. Maybe mass world brainwashing (Geass style!) was instigated by Ray at one point using the alien tech... Yeah that's all I got. Total cop-out I know. |
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2014-07-07, 19:25 | Link #278 | |
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
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2014-07-07, 19:30 | Link #280 | ||
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At least if we were working with 70 or more years, you'd have a situation where very few if any Martians would have living/growing up on Earth as a personal history. I don't know why they didn't just set this story somewhere in the 2050s or a bit later. It wouldn't be so far in the future you'd have to make drastic changes to the setting, but it would effectively avoid the issues that some of us have with the setting as is.
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mecha, sci-fi |
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