(L) Cross game

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by Sackett

If she had managed to overcome that hurdle I don't see why Akane's presence would stop her.

Because while maybe Aoba was able to overcome that hurdle, now it's Akane's very presence to overcome hers.
Whenever Akane is around Kou, Aoba either makes herself very small or disappears, it's a sort of replay of the times of Aoba, Wakaba and Kou, just that now Aoba retreats of her own will. It's like in her mind she can't even conceive a "fight" for Kou towards Akane, and gives up without even trying.

The chocolates were meant for Kou, and she could have made many excuses to justify them (from "obligatory choco" to "sorry for the burden"). But if Akane were to see her giving chocolate to Kou, she would have thought to a romantic development of the Kou-Aoba relationship. Something that Aoba doesn't want anyone to see, Akane being the very last person in the world.

So she had to change her strategy and have the chocolates delivered to Azuma (whom had just indirectly confessed to her) instead. When Azuma goes to Clover later, she's confused and murmurs something about it being all right. Still she didn't sound really convinced, and as Proto pointed out earlier, she had a raging upsetment growing on her.

"Sunao no onna janai", said Azuma in that conversation with Kou. Literally, a woman who isn't honest with her feelings. Just in the one episode she made her feelings more clearer than usual for us watchers (the banters at the beginning, the bridge scene (showing a lot of caring and affection despite all), buying chocolates for him), she decides to withdraw at the crucial moment, keeping all inside.

[poko-kun]

Do you believe that Kou got 4 chocolate?


I don't think so.

[satomianzaki]

goodness...this episode is like bitter sweet...just like a dark chocolate...hahaha...

the scenes with kou and aoba on the first part was really sweet...but regarding the chocolates and with kou reminscin' about wakaba cause of akane, well...i have nothing against akane btw, and i think she really is a nice girl...

anyways, am really loving every episode of the anime (and every chapter of the manga too)...i really wanna see more kou x aoba moments both in the manga and anime...

shocks i really can't wait...

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by poko-kun

Do you believe that Kou got 4 chocolate?


I don't think so.

If you're asking to me, the answer no. To me, it's as he received 6 (the four that went into the truck, +1 from Akane and yes, though virtual, +1 from Aoba). As simple as that

[Proto]

Heck, for that matter he received 10 of them.

[cf18]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

she had a raging upsetment growing on her.

She may be just upset about her biggest fear - Akane may replace Kou's memory of Wakaba, and eventually even her own memory. Aoba still can't properly talk to Akane, but after seeing the photos Akane may now understand Aoba'a issue.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by cf18

She may be just upset about her biggest fear - Akane may replace Kou's memory of Wakaba, and eventually even her own memory.

Not possible. Out of all people, Aoba knows for a fact that no one can replace the memory of Wakaba which is one of the actual issues she's having with being more honest about her feelings (of course, Aoba's personality is another one of those issues as well.)

[Proto]

Although I don't think that the memory of Wakaba on Aoba or Kou is an issue here, it do is possible for the memories of her to be overwritten, merged and confounded with memories of Akane, since they both overlap on so many senses. Speaking from a psychological POV of course.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Proto

Although I don't think that the memory of Wakaba on Aoba or Kou is an issue here.

Really? I figured that even if Aoba were more honest about liking Kou, wouldn't her memories of Wakaba telling her that she couldn't have him interfere? So in a sense, I see it as a plausible issue between them (at least from Aoba's point of view.)

[Proto]

I was referring to the memories in the way cf18 was, the memory of Wakaba telling Aoba not to have Kou is a different matter altogether.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Proto

I was referring to the memories in the way cf18 was, the memory of Wakaba telling Aoba not to have Kou is a different matter altogether.

Ah, then I must have misunderstood his post all together then. You can disregard my posts

[HitagiIsHot]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

Because while maybe Aoba was able to overcome that hurdle, now it's Akane's very presence to overcome hers.
Whenever Akane is around Kou, Aoba either makes herself very small or disappears, it's a sort of replay of the times of Aoba, Wakaba and Kou, just that now Aoba retreats of her own will. It's like in her mind she can't even conceive a "fight" for Kou towards Akane, and gives up without even trying.

Very interesting analysis Pellissier. Why does Aoba make herself very small when Akane & Kou are together? We also have to ask why Aoba did the Akane blood type scouting earlier? I'm assuming Aoba knows that Akane is not Wakaba, but subconsciously she can't fight the Wakaba look alike for Kou. Add the fact that Aoba's actions suggests that she expects Kou to like Akane because of her resemblance to Wakaba, and, so far, she has the personality of a saint. She's an artist, and really friendly to her Kitamura and Tsukishima neighbors. Aoba likes Kou, but she denies her own feelings and is somewhat of a catalyst in bringing Kou x Akane together. Kind of a tragic flaw in her personality, if you think about it really.

Originally Posted by poko-kun

Do you believe that Kou got 4 chocolate?


I don't think so.

Perhaps he was trying to hide that he got nothing? However, I do believe that Kou has no reason to lie about it. It could just be that he didn't want to show Aoba how many he got because it's... Aoba, but then was forced to tell her or not have any chocolates at all for Valentines Day (even though he would get one from Akane).

[The Rumblefish]

As for the white day I don't see Kou giving Aoba anything expensive if theres going to be an episode about it.

If so, it would be an interesting sign because Kô did not officially receive any chocolate from Aoba, but technically received more chocolates From Aoba than any other girl. So, his attitude about Valentine Day and how he viewed Aoba's actions that day would be very revealing.

[poko-kun]

i mean, if kou said he got ten of them, will aoba still agree to buy him back? that would consume a lot of her allowance.
or kou just got only 3, so 4 is already a plus. who knows.

[Guardian Enzo]

Man, this series is going to f*cking kill me.

That was so good, honestly - just tremendous. I do have to once again quibble with titles, though - this should have been called "Isn't it obvious?" And isn't it? I mean, that entire scene of Kou and Aoba bickering couldn't have been any cuter.

So much of import happened here. We now see how Aoba can be in CF for Waka-chan's dream. And yet, though Akane was drawing from sketches of Aoba, it's clear in her mind's eye she was seeing Kou. So in effect, that image is a composite - Kou and Aoba are as one. Powerful symbolism there.

Of course, the huge question hanging over the ep is, who was the fifth choco intended for? I'm firmly in the camp that believes it was for Kou - and not from Waka, either. As usual, though, timing is abysmal and Akane spoils the mood. Meanwhile, Azuma goes and be's his amazingly cool self and gets alone time with Aoba. I know Adachi is playing with our heads and these are necessary, catalysts to spur the main event, but dammit - I can't be sure. And both Akane and Azuma are so damn feasible as options, too, enough to really make you worry.

Finally, a word must be said about Momiji's great line - "Isn't it great that Aoba's a girl?" The youngest sister is no fool, that's for sure...

[MeoTwister5]

Oh I don't think it's ever been a problem to know who that chocolate really was for. The thing is that for me, what exactly would Aoba have said to Kou if Akane didn't happen to arrive (dammit!)? Kou is still as dense as a brick but he's picking up on it. The fact that he insisted immediately to know why there was a fifth chocolate in their was signified that enough, but since the story has a damn perfect habit of hiding true intentions from the viewer that no can really knows 100%.

And I've stated in my previous post, I did call into question if that sketch really was a composite of both of them. The thing is AFAIK Akane has never seen Aoba pitch and drew that sketch watching Kou in that game. However even then, both Kou and Aoba acknowledge the fact that it was Aoba's form and Kou adapted her form to his. More than a simple consolidation of both their forms, to me it's Kou subconscious imitation of Aoba's pitching form despite their rough and tumble relationship. Despite what he might say, Aoba is practically his single biggest baseball inspiration, of sorts.

My point with the mangaka making some AkanexKou implications is more rooted again in this show's ability to present one thing but mean another, at the same time not presenting superficial intentions to light. It almost feels like a painful red herring of an insinuation that's for sure.

[MushroomSamba]

Originally Posted by HitagiIsHot

Very interesting analysis Pellissier. Why does Aoba make herself very small when Akane & Kou are together? We also have to ask why Aoba did the Akane blood type scouting earlier? I'm assuming Aoba knows that Akane is not Wakaba, but subconsciously she can't fight the Wakaba look alike for Kou. Add the fact that Aoba's actions suggests that she expects Kou to like Akane because of her resemblance to Wakaba, and, so far, she has the personality of a saint. She's an artist, and really friendly to her Kitamura and Tsukishima neighbors. Aoba likes Kou, but she denies her own feelings and is somewhat of a catalyst in bringing Kou x Akane together. Kind of a tragic flaw in her personality, if you think about it really.

I think you and Pell are both right on the money.

It's almost as if part of her really desires Kou and Akane to end up together despite her own feelings for Kou, because it'd sorta be like everything would go back to the way things were in their childhood...and that one misfortune in fate would suddenly be righted. She always cared deeply for Wakaba, and wouldn't want to get in the way of her (now Akane's) happiness, even if that meant suppressing her own. How conflicting.

[Guardian Enzo]

Here's something I wonder - and I think it highly dangerous for the manga readers to even contemplate answering.

As we've all seen, Azuma is a remarkably astute and observant young fellow. For all his droll and cool exterior, it's clear he's driven by the same deep emotions as anyone else in the cast. He's already said Aoba is the "only one he'd consider going out with." We have no reason to doubt that he genuinely likes her and finds her attractive.

Yet, we also know this - Azuma understands the bond between Kou and Aoba better than either of them do (or are, at least, willing to admit). He's made this clear via various cutting commentary on numerous occasions already. And I also think it's clear that he respects Kou as an athlete and a person, and genuinely cares for him as a friend. Not to mention, he's grateful to Kou and his family for taking him in. Given all that, would Azuma actually follow through with dating Aoba? Would he do that under any circumstances, given what he knows and how he feels - or perhaps, is there a limit to how much time he'd give Kou to "shit ot get off the pot" before he'd figure he's been a good friend, but it's open season?

I'm not saying that dating Aoba (assuming she'd date him) would make Azuma a bad guy, necessarily. After all, Kou has had literally his entire life to openly express an interest in Aoba, and it's not as if Azuma has stood in his way. But could Azuma ever actually do it, knowing what he knows and being who he is?

[MushroomSamba]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

But could Azuma ever actually do it, knowing what he knows and being who he is?

I'm still under the notion that Azuma (and possibly Akane as well) is savvy on the whole Kou-Aoba situation, and is trying to play them into realizing it. I honestly doubt his feelings for Aoba go past anything further than utmost respect.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by MushroomSamba

I think you and Pell are both right on the money.

It's almost as if part of her really desires Kou and Akane to end up together, despite her own feelings for Kou, because it'd sorta be like everything would go back to the way things were in their childhood. She always cared deeply for Wakaba, and wouldn't want to get in the way of her (now Akane's) happiness, even if that meant suppressing her own. How conflicting.

I also think Pellisier was on the money, especially with the observation of Aoba shrinking into herself whenever Akane is present (or even mentioned, I would add). I think the logical extension of your post is that for Aoba, the fact that she likes - in fact, very likely loves - Kou - is deeply disquieting. After all, she's spent her entire life coming up with reasons why she should hate him - she's positively dedicated to the search - not to mention that Waka's words forever hang over her like the a black cloud of guilt. Pairing Kou off with Akane spares her from having to confront a rather difficult truth, and as a bonus gives her an illusion that she's helping Waka out in a way.

Poor Akane seems such a nice person, yet through no fault of her own she's totally and completely wrong for Kou in every way. There's no way he could ever have a meaningful relationship with her without it involving an unhealthy stagnation of his personal growth. For both Kou and Aoba Akane, as sweet as she is, represents a step backward, a retreat into their childhood guilt and sadness. Akane is the past, and Aoba and Kou are each other's future, if only they could see it.

Aoba and Kou... I don't know which of these poor kids is the more pathetic. Each of them has lived under the shadow of Waka's death for their entire adolescence. For Aoba, an inferiority complex that she can never overcome (even little Momiji gave a taste of this, noting that she can never match Waka in swimming as Waka was younger when she died) and an urgent fear of reaching for what her heart desires. For Kou, a sense of responsibility that he can never fully pay off, a devotion to a girl long gone at the expense of one within his reach. As Akane is blameless for the retardation her presence places on the growth of Kou and Aoba, so too is Waka-chan - she could hardly have known her careless words to them in life would serve to imprison them after her death. Yet that's just what they did - and Kou and Aoba remain entrapped by outside forces, unable to selfishly seek their own happiness.

This is getting complicated...