One Piece - Chapter 694 [manga]

[janipani]

There has to always be very good reason for side character to become stronger than main character and that has usually something to do with character development process, and we don't have such phase going on in OP.

But I believe Oda likes to keep Zoro as close as possible to Luffy in terms of power so we can get some sort on tension going on. That is good for the show.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Better to liven up this place instead of having it degenerate into a graveyard before the next chapter, right ?

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Alright, here's another off-topic discussion I'd like to get more people's opinions on. Pre-time-skip, how strong were Garp and Sengoku in comparison to the admirals? Were they noticeably weaker, slightly weaker, on par, slightly stronger, or noticeably stronger than the admirals? I'll post my thoughts later on.

I would say on par just to be on the safe side .
Truth is there allot we don't know about them like Sengoku DF , there Haki techniques etc etc .
Still age was getting to Garp since he said his power was going down but i was say on par or i think Garp has the edge from what we know of him .
Waiting to see what you think we got time to kill.

[Undertaker]

I would say on par too, but Sengoku/Garp might lose if the fight drags on.

I use Rayleigh as my reference point.

Taking away, WB and Roger who are clearly on another level and mentioned as equals, you would think Rayleigh would be about equal to either Sengoku and Garp.

Rayleigh is able to match up Kizaru and escape unscratched so there is no reason why Sengoku or Garp can't do the same especially with Garp is being active on the front line.

However at same time I do think old age and decline in physical attribute matters, so I do think if the battle prolong, the admiral should have the advantage.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Alright, here's another off-topic discussion I'd like to get more people's opinions on. Pre-time-skip, how strong were Garp and Sengoku in comparison to the admirals? Were they noticeably weaker, slightly weaker, on par, slightly stronger, or noticeably stronger than the admirals? I'll post my thoughts later on.

I'm going with noticeably stronger because of the age and length of their service in the navy. Garp was known for fighting Roger many times and surviving If a lot of people were doing that I don't think he would have been known for that. Sengoku's devil fruit Hito Hito no Mi haven't seen its full power yet though but it is a Mythical Zoan type which is very rare.

[Randrak42]

I personally believe at least Garp is stronger than the Admirals (well, the pre-timeskip ones ofc), not by a whole lot but he'd still have a nice edge on them.
Garp was known for having multiple confrontations with Roger in their time, to the point where they gained such mutual respect that Roger entrusted his child to him. If Roger and WB were about the same level back in the day, I'd say Garp was close to their level if not actually on par with them. True, age weakened him much like it did the oldies like Rayleigh and WB but even an aged and severely sick and injured WB destroyed Akainu when he got angered. I believe that had Sengoku not stopped Garp he would have seriously broken Akainu in half.

Sengoku...I'm not sure, he was obviously at admiral level and his age didn't affect him as it did Garp since he's a bit younger...but I think he'd be more or less on par with the admirals back during the war.

To sum it up...pre-timeskip, Garp was to me the strongest Marine we know of with Sengoku and the other admirals coming in second.

Speaking of which...I really want to know who the two new Admirals are xD
How much of a kick in the nuts for Luffy would it be if one of the new admirals had Ace's Devil Fruit powers?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by andy

I would say on par just to be on the safe side .
Truth is there allot we don't know about them like Sengoku DF , there Haki techniques etc etc .
Still age was getting to Garp since he said his power was going down but i was say on par or i think Garp has the edge from what we know of him .
Waiting to see what you think we got time to kill.

I'd also say on par. Truth be told, Garp and Sengoku ride mostly on hype than feats (and the hype that they ride on stems from their prime selves). But the praise, recognition, and acknowledgement, they get speaks volumes of their strength. When the World's Strongest Man, Whitebeard, mentions your name in the same breath as Roger, you know these guys are extraordinary to say the least. They're world-renowned legends, and their reputations precede them.

Rayleigh serves as a good indicator as to where Garp and Sengoku should roughly stand amongst the elites. This guy, who's retired and has been inactive for 20+ years, fought Kizaru to a stalemate. While neither of them were fully exerting themselves in that short skirmish, the feat is still remarkable. Garp, in his prime, nearly killed and cornered Roger on numerous occasions. And seeing as how he was still an active marine after Roger's death, rustiness wouldn't really be an issue for him. That implies that at the very least he would be able to replicate Rayleigh's performance against an admiral, if not surpass it.

Sengoku seems to be more known for his tactical brilliance than strength. His moniker "the buddha" and DF even suggest him to be an "enlightened" being. Of course, being a former admiral in the past would mean that he was exceptionally strong in his own right. After all, he used to pursue Shiki, a rival of Roger, by himself in the past. Even back during the shichibukai meeting to discuss Croc's replacement, he told Doflamingo to stop messing around, to which he did, which implies the man commands respect and is not to be trifled with.

Moving on to actual feats now.

During the war at Marineford, Marco and Kizaru never managed to best each other. Then when Marco flies up to the execution platform to rescue Ace, Garp immediately gets right in his face and punches him down to the ground with force comparable to a meteorite hitting the ground. This was also the first real wound that Marco sustained, evident by the expression and scratches on his face. Everyone made a big deal out of Garp finally getting himself involved (even Whitebeard showed some concern), a reaction that not even the admirals invoked. As for Sengoku, Whitebeard praised him for his effective strategies and he took on the entire Blackbeard crew by himself, suffering only minor injuries by the end of the war (a true testament to his sheer power and durability). Very few could replicate this feat.

Having said all of this, I'd say that being on par with the admirals is a reasonable assessment of their fighting strength. But post-time-skip, I feel that the admirals have overtaken Garp and Sengoku.

[marvelB]

Aw no, I'm not falling into another of Grey's nefarious traps this time (lord knows I fell into them enough times already ). So pardon me if I go against the flow of this latest penis contest debate:



So as I've mentioned during the last couple of threads, I believe that Chopper (with Law's help) may be able to create a vaccine for Caesar's poison using Luffy's DNA. I can see this having a lot of positive effects for the crew's reputation, not the least of which of them being that this would be a big step for Chopper to realize his dream. Another benefit is that by saving Kinemon with this hypothetical cure, he'd be further indebted to the Straw-Hats, which may even lead to them becoming VIP guests at the Wano country (not like that wouldn't happen anyway, but at least the country's residents may be interested in the vaccine).


But of course, this is only a theory. But still, I think this would make for a good resolution to this arc, and would be an ideal moment for Chopper's growth. I mean, I think this is the first arc we've had since he joined where we actually see him putting his medical skills to the test by struggling to save those drugged giant kids. Wouldn't it be great if all that effort actually bore some fruit....?

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Aw no, I'm not falling into another of Grey's nefarious traps this time (lord knows I fell into them enough times already ). So pardon me if I go against the flow of this latest penis contest debate:



So as I've mentioned during the last couple of threads, I believe that Chopper (with Law's help) may be able to create a vaccine for Caesar's poison using Luffy's DNA. I can see this having a lot of positive effects for the crew's reputation, not the least of which of them being that this would be a big step for Chopper to realize his dream. Another benefit is that by saving Kinemon with this hypothetical cure, he'd be further indebted to the Straw-Hats, which may even lead to them becoming VIP guests at the Wano country (not like that wouldn't happen anyway, but at least the country's residents may be interested in the vaccine).

But of course, this is only a theory. But still, I think this would make for a good resolution to this arc, and would be an ideal moment for Chopper's growth. I mean, I think this is the first arc we've had since he joined where we actually see him putting his medical skills to the test by struggling to save those drugged giant kids. Wouldn't it be great if all that effort actually bore some fruit....?

Do we have evidence that Luffy is immune to the poison?

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Do we have evidence that Luffy is immune to the poison?

Luffy's miraculous recovery from Magellan's poisoning in Impel Down. It was stated several times that Luffy's gained a natural immunity to a large number of poisons thanks to that, not just one. Demonstrated when he punched Hyouzou in the previous arc.

The immune system is an amazing thing if it can withstand that first onslaught.~

[Poetic Justice]

I know about that but is he immune to the poison gas?

[King Lycan]

^ I doubt he's immune to the poison gas.

[Randrak42]

The physical state of the poison doesn't matter, only the type of poison matters.

[SilverSyko]

You can change something's state of matter without affecting it's chemical composition. Water for example, even when frozen as ice or evaporated as steam, it's chemical composition always remains at 2 hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom. (H2O)

Unless the poison gases produced from Caesar's devil fruit work differently, if chilled at a very low enough temperature it should be condensed into a liquid poison.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I know about that but is he immune to the poison gas?

Not only did we see Luffy inhale Caesar's gases during their first fight without feeling its effects, he also blasted him away after he merged with Shinokuni, meaning he touched the poison without feeling anything. Now compare that to his earlier battles with Magellan where he nearly died after making physical contact with the warden. I mean, sure Luffy has armor haki now, but I doubt that power alone would be able to protect against poison. So yeah, I'd say that he's immune.

[CrowKenobi]

I would say that if Luffy isn't totally immune to poison, his resistance to poison is so incredibly high you might as well say he's immune.

[Undertaker]

I agree. I think it's similar like healing factor in Marvel Universe. It still effects Luffy, the question is how fast he recovers.

But since it now looks like he can even recover from Shinokuni pretty quickly, I doubt there is any poison out there that can really give him trouble other than maybe Magellan himself.

[solidguy]

gohan was stronger than goku. whos to say zoro CANT be stronger than luffy just because he isn't the main

[Rawrz]

Small scale poison like cannon fodder or alternate poison strikes like Crocodile's hook, Caesar's clouds cant do much from this point on. Magellan can be a very different case since poison is his main speciality. Im sure he can still one hit Luffy to unconsciousness.

[janipani]

Originally Posted by solidguy

gohan was stronger than goku. whos to say zoro CANT be stronger than luffy just because he isn't the main

Well, but that was DBZ not DB. Focus was on Gohans growth all the time in DBZ, which makes him in fact main character where Goku was strong side character that allowed Gohan to be rather weak personality for someone to actually get ahead of everyone in the end. You could also say they where main character duo.

DBZ has quite unorthodox way writing what comes to Gohan and Goku, so I wouldn't go there and think Zoro as Gohan. It's quite obvious that Oda just plays with rivalry, which makes show interesting even though it would never happen that Zoro would get stronger... except possibly for a special moment, for a special reason, temporarily.

I kinda find it funny, that people actually wonder this since there hasn't been single change in order of Strawhats yet. I doupt Oda would do a single thing that would make Luffy look bad and for most people Zoro getting stronger than him, would exactly make that happen.

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by janipani

Well, but that was DBZ not DB. Focus was on Gohans growth all the time in DBZ, which makes him in fact main character where Goku was strong side character that allowed Gohan to be rather weak personality for someone to actually get ahead of everyone in the end. You could also say they where main character duo.

DBZ has quite unorthodox way writing what comes to Gohan and Goku, so I wouldn't go there and think Zoro as Gohan. It's quite obvious that Oda just plays with rivalry, which makes show interesting even though it would never happen that Zoro would get stronger... except possibly for a special moment, for a special reason, temporarily.

I kinda find it funny, that people actually wonder this since there hasn't been single change in order of Strawhats yet. I doupt Oda would do a single thing that would make Luffy look bad and for most people Zoro getting stronger than him, would exactly make that happen.

Or zoro could simply peak before luffy and for a period be stronger, completely up to the author anyway and I doubt he'll write OP like that. Just saying there is no law which prevents zoro from being stronger than luffy, which is kinda being implied by some.