Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[AdventSleeper]

And so the AthenaXHayate flag falls... likely never to rise again...

And the NagiXHayate flag goes even higher? Haha.

While the manga is probably going to shift to a more gag-comedy for now, I hope it doesn't last TOO long. I gotta admit I'm one of those who rushed through a lot of the comedy chapters to get to this more serious chapters..Ah.. but I guess a few gags don't hurt...
I'm not too sure what to say about ch 265 as I want to read it in english to really interpret what that chapter means.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Something I just realized, though I think it was earlier chapters that made the distinction. Most people thought that Athena leaving Hayate with the stone when she healed and cared for him after Machina beat him up, we thought that that was a sign of her maturity. Now we've found out that she can't touch the stones, which changes it from a 'she's acting mature' to 'she can't help but leave it alone'.

Kinda amusing that a supposed 'good' thing about her turned out to be an action she only took because of the curse inflicted.

All sorts of points take on a different outlook if you let them settle and get all the pieces together before making a decision about them.
Maybe we should just let this sit for a moment before taking our anger out because Athena is leaving the main cast.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Something I just realized, though I think it was earlier chapters that made the distinction. Most people thought that Athena leaving Hayate with the stone when she healed and cared for him after Machina beat him up, we thought that that was a sign of her maturity. Now we've found out that she can't touch the stones, which changes it from a 'she's acting mature' to 'she can't help but leave it alone'.

Kinda amusing that a supposed 'good' thing about her turned out to be an action she only took because of the curse inflicted.

Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.

we dont know that much, there are way to handle the stone without touching it....oh well something so trivial makes no difference to the end result anyways, Athena is too nice for her own good

[zodanhko]

For better evident: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c243/5.html

There was no problem to take the stone, whether she can touch it or not.

That is why I'm not fond with pure and kind girls, especially ones with altruism. ~.~

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.

She had said that she needed Hayate's power.. because we're never given exactly what power she's talking about, it could have simply be the power to hold onto the stone.

If she had a way of holding the stone without actually touching it, it would have been easy to subvert. She could have taken the stone from Hayate when he was six because technically he wasn't holding it either, it was within the pouch he was carrying.

She's always seemed to have someone with her, first Hayate, then his brother, recently Machina, then Hayate again. Nothing to indicate that she could actually touch the stone, or anything touching/carrying it, on her own.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

She had said that she needed Hayate's power.. because we're never given exactly what power she's talking about, it could have simply be the power to hold onto the stone.

If she had a way of holding the stone without actually touching it, it would have been easy to subvert. She could have taken the stone from Hayate when he was six because technically he wasn't holding it either, it was within the pouch he was carrying.

Before entering this debate, this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c243/5.html is already enough of a proof that she can take the stone easily, whether she can hold it or not. If you claimed Makina can hold the stone, then there was no reason for her to need Hayate after she took the stone. All in all, she didn't take it because she did not want to.

She never said she needs any power from Hayate. She believed Hayate took the Power of Royal when she sleep outside the castle.

She didn't realized Hayate had the stone, and she can't exit the castle even with the stone or may be she can, although that doesn't really matter.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by AmIaNeRd

And the NagiXHayate flag goes even higher? Haha.

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Hina.

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by Mentar

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Maria

fixed that for you....I just cant stop getting a gut feeling about this

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Mentar

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Hina.

I think I'll have to disagree, this chapter had so many Nagi-flags it wasn't even funny.

So far, I've said that a Nagi end wasn't likely due to the lack of romantic development (read: complete absence of it). However, after these chapters I think it's quite likely Hata will indeed pull a main female character end, in the end. Well, the arcs to come may give him the opportunity to develop it.

[leoblack9]

So far, its going to be back to normal (mahn, nothin is ever normal in HnG, is it?)

I got mixed feelings though, Athena can leave for all she wants but she'll come back surely enough when the situation gets rough some time in the future.

Perfect opportunity for other characters to develop, Maria, Aika, Fumi and Sharuna are all I could think of.

Well then, I hope that it doens't end up comedically boring.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I think I'll have to disagree, this chapter had so many Nagi-flags it wasn't even funny.

But no romantic ones whatsoever. Seriously, none. I can see various ending opportunities for Nagi which do NOT include romance - like, having Yukariko return (who doesn't seem dead after all). Like, resolving things around Himegami. Or, having Nagi find someone her age. And finally, following up on the theme of graciously giving up on Hayate for his greater happiness as part of Nagi growing up. Or a combination of all of those.

The main disadvantage of Nagi is her age. She's too young for Hayate to build a romantic link. So either, Nagi (kid, now) needs to morph into Nagi (adolescent, future), or I can't see any development.

So far, I've said that a Nagi end wasn't likely due to the lack of romantic development (read: complete absence of it). However, after these chapters I think it's quite likely Hata will indeed pull a main female character end, in the end. Well, the arcs to come may give him the opportunity to develop it.

Again, unless Hata wants to peddle pedophilia (a hilarious thought with Hayate's timidity), he'll either have to completely change Nagi and let her age, or rather keep the relationship as-is.

And sorry, there hasn't been any romantic progress concerning Maria in a few ages. Along with the inherent difficulties I saw from the past (letting Nagi lose her surrogate mother AND her lover at the same time), I have difficulties seeing a path here.

So, if we DO assume that the Athena arc is completely closed (probable, but not certain), who remains with the most significant and most detailed romantic development is Hina. Which is why I'd say that she gained the most out of c265.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Mentar

And sorry, there hasn't been any romantic progress concerning Maria in a few ages. Along with the inherent difficulties I saw from the past (letting Nagi lose her surrogate mother AND her lover at the same time), I have difficulties seeing a path here.

So, if we DO assume that the Athena arc is completely closed (probable, but not certain), who remains with the most significant and most detailed romantic development is Hina. Which is why I'd say that she gained the most out of c265.

I still don't see Nagi having the possibility of losing Hayate (her lover), though I truly doubt the possibility that she's actually going to be his choice in the end. Hayate has continually shown his devotion to her (as her butler).
I think the most likely case would be his chosen lover moving in with them, allowing Nagi to continually fawn over him (she's shown enough growth in this arc to show that generally she would allow it, and most of the other girls are the same).

Maria has also shown a similar level of devotion to Nagi.. which makes Nagi's assumption that she'll leave eventually a bit of fridge logic.
The entire reason that Maria has tried to stay in the background of the harem is because of supporting Nagi's place in it.
Maria as the choice does have the advantage of not changing the makeup of the cast interactions in any meaningful way, she doesn't seem a likely choice from Hayate's POV.

I agree that Hinagiku has gained the most ground through this arc, but Ayumu also placed herself back in contention during it, though I don't see her as much of a real competitor.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Mentar

But no romantic ones whatsoever.

Actually, they were on that direction. For example, when Athena told Hayate to go back to his important person, we had an image of Nagi and Ayumu, in which Nagi was talking about the deep bond she has with Hayate. That's minimal, but it sure is suspicious. Another flag that wasn't so subtle was when Hayate was wondering about the day when he'd be able to tell "I love you" to someone again, and during that first inner monologue, Nagi was shown.

Originally Posted by Mentar

The main disadvantage of Nagi is her age. She's too young for Hayate to build a romantic link. So either, Nagi (kid, now) needs to morph into Nagi (adolescent, future), or I can't see any development.

Nagi is only 3 years younger than Hayate. Whilst the manga's end doesn't have to be an immediate romantic end, they could end up together as butler and mistress, with the open possibility of Hayate falling for her in the future.

Either way, I'd say you guys should wait for the scanlations and then form a better judgement.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

I still don't see Nagi having the possibility of losing Hayate (her lover), though I truly doubt the possibility that she's actually going to be his choice in the end. Hayate has continually shown his devotion to her (as her butler).
I think the most likely case would be his chosen lover moving in with them, allowing Nagi to continually fawn over him (she's shown enough growth in this arc to show that generally she would allow it, and most of the other girls are the same).

Well... maaaaaybe, but that would require some fairly extreme changes of heart in the characters. First, I see no intention of Maria to get together with Hayate. I see no intention of Hayate to get together with Maria. I do remember Nagi repeatedly going totally tilt when she merely SUSPECTED Hayate of making moves on Maria. In fact, Nagi still thinks that Hayate is completely smitten with her.

Lots of really major hurdles to overcome... and would that qualify as "happy ending"? *scratch head*

I agree that Hinagiku has gained the most ground through this arc, but Ayumu also placed herself back in contention during it, though I don't see her as much of a real competitor.

God bless da Hamster. If by some miraculous developments she were to end up with Hayate after all, I wouldn't mind.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Actually, they were on that direction. For example, when Athena told Hayate to go back to his important person, we had an image of Nagi and Ayumu, in which Nagi was talking about the deep bond she has with Hayate. That's minimal, but it sure is suspicious. Another flag that wasn't so subtle was when Hayate was wondering about the day when he'd be able to tell "I love you" to someone again, and during that first inner monologue, Nagi was shown.

Don't get me wrong, Nagi certainly remains the big big favorite. It's just for several small reasons that I genuinely doubt it's going to be her in the end.

Nagi is only 3 years younger than Hayate. Whilst the manga's end doesn't have to be an immediate romantic end, they could end up together as butler and mistress, with the open possibility of Hayate falling for her in the future.

Yes, true. But wouldn't it be totally anticlimactic to just make a time jump and say "dup de doo, they've fallen in love in the meantime, and now they're a loving couple. Ze end." ?

For Nagi to "win", she needs to mature. If we're treated to a time "speedup" or a "time jump" while continuing the story, this would indicate a Nagi ending. As long as she remains the kid she is, I doubt that we'll get the romantic groundwork which would be needed.

[Game8910]

aah hamster, truly someone I admire in this manga only second to athena (this is just in the admiration category btw) because after a-tan she seems to be the most direct person when it comes to her feelings with Hayate....a fine choice...dammit Hayate's harem is full of god tier contestants

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Well... maaaaaybe, but that would require some fairly extreme changes of heart in the characters. First, I see no intention of Maria to get together with Hayate. I see no intention of Hayate to get together with Maria. I do remember Nagi repeatedly going totally tilt when she merely SUSPECTED Hayate of making moves on Maria. In fact, Nagi still thinks that Hayate is completely smitten with her.

Lots of really major hurdles to overcome... and would that qualify as "happy ending"? *scratch head*



God bless da Hamster. If by some miraculous developments she were to end up with Hayate after all, I wouldn't mind.

The major factor I see for Nagi being alright with it is that 'twice' she has ordered Hayate out on a date with another girl.
The first was with Maria specifically, under the clearly obvious (even Hayate could see through it) excuse that if it were Nagi herself the person they were trying to trick would only see it as him taking a little-sister figure on a shopping trip or something.
The second was a little more opaque, sending Hayate out with Hinagiku earlier in the arc, with a somewhat plausible excuse.

It seemed that when she smashed the stone, that she might have some clue that she might have misinterpreted his initial statement. Something about 'words being easy to be heard in the wrong context'?

I can't say I would really mind most endings aside from Hina or Nagi, but I don't think any of them would turn out to be 'happy endings', including Athena.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

The major factor I see for Nagi being alright with it is that 'twice' she has ordered Hayate out on a date with another girl.
The first was with Maria specifically, under the clearly obvious (even Hayate could see through it) excuse that if it were Nagi herself the person they were trying to trick would only see it as him taking a little-sister figure on a shopping trip or something.

Well, as you said, this one doesn't quite apply ^_^;

The second was a little more opaque, sending Hayate out with Hinagiku earlier in the arc, with a somewhat plausible excuse.

And this one was because Nagi is sure by now that Hinagiku is out of reach for Hayate, and because they really owed Hina. Keep in mind, she forcefully refused Ayumu who insisted that she wanted a Hayate date too - because Nagi believed Ayumu would go after him.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Well this time it was Hayate's trademark smile which attracted most of his harem that brought an end to his longing feelings. For some reason I feel an aura of mystery around Nagi when the nutcracker is around.