Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Terra]

One other thing about the elevators. CB doesn't send the Gundams back up into space very often, and certainly to no schedule. So stopping to check everything just to try and catch a Gundam on the off chance they've chosen to send one up is just unpractical. It's better to spend your resources on investigation and military operations than on the random chance they might get lucky at their elevator.

[Matrim]

Not that this discussion is not fun to read but am I the only one who thinks it's very much futile to discuss plotholes and talk about realism in a series where a few mechas can stop a civil war in a day and a private organization is light years ahead in technology from everyone else? A series in which total nutjobs pilot the most powerful mechas in the world, despite the need to keep everything in secret?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by edf91

If you have read the spoilers, you would know that they did

Spoiler:

succeed in using the numbers as you said, but they use 1000 MS - that's a lot of MS. And that's a jointed operation - not just one country/alliance

, but it is something that not one alliance can do.

Spoiler:

Projecting force and defending a base aren't the same.

The background material mentioned they build that a while ago, and it seems it was "announced" - just no one pay much attention to it since it's "out there." If it's "announced", then it's not so secret, is it? The problem is that no one is connecting the dots on it, that's all.

OK, so it's the first space colony in the history of mankind, and somehow nobody pays attention.

Did you read my response at all? You are assuming they cannot send them back up (good assumption, but it's still an assumption) - I am just saying that's just the quickest way.

OK, so maybe they're not stuck downside. If they can somehow escape the gravity well under their own power, that'd be good to know. Also, point telescope at them while they're doing it.

Stop all wars? They did mention that back in episode 1...

Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. And even if it is, it's not exactly reassuring. Let's look at a few examples from the C.E:
- Rau Le Creuset wanted to end all wars. His plan: kill everyone.
- Patrick Zala wanted to end all wars. His plan: kill almost everyone, and let the rest live under his iron heel.
- Gilbert Dullindal wanted to end all wars. His plan: kill a few million people to scare the rest into living slavishly under his rule.
- Kira Yamato would have liked to end all wars, or at least for all wars to end. His plan: pop up on the battlefield and shoot whoever shoots at him or his friends.

Granted that so far, they've been rather Kira Yamatoish. But there's no telling if or when they might decide to switch strategies.

In some scenarios, yes, but in some scenarios, it is also a bad idea - Union/HRL already assumed that Gundams don't need to refuel that often, so if CB decide to attack something everyday, I wouldn't think that is a good idea.

They don't do it now because they don't want to, not because their access to the elevators somehow deters them. Besides, the more they attack, the more chances they have of making a fatal mistake.

Remember, they need a lot of numbers to hold the Gundam, so unless they know where they are attacking, they won't be able to do anything. And if they decide to use some personnels to investigate CB, they might leave some "openings" for CB to use the elevators again. Experience personnel don't grow on trees, you know...

You don't need a skilled, experienced investigator to open a container and see that there is no giant robot inside. Granted that you'd need some for the background checks and running down leads, but hey, they're big countries.

Not powerful, yes, but they still need to watch it. Unless you intent to search everything send from everyone, including UN and your own people, you are going to piss UN off if you search them more compare to others.

What are you talking about? They'd be checked just like everybody else. Neither more nor less. You're the one trying to claim that if you've got a UN bigwig on your side, you can get major governments to fly your giant warmachines wherever without even checking what they're transporting.

I am not sure if you read the various news article, it has been mentioned that most of the "breakthroughs" are from people investigating, and my point was if they really, really want to get stuff onto the planes, they can - it's just the investigating team are "picking up the slacks" so they don't have a chance to do so in an organized manner.

OK, for one thing: giant robots. Those are big.

Second: they can't afford to fail even once.

Every worked at a port or check point? The amount of time required to check EVERY SINGLE box or container would basically force the earth to space commerce to a standstill.

Not every box. Only the ones big enough to contain a giant robot.

Heck, they don't even need to open every container. Just enough that there is a good chance of catching them. Even a 10% chance of getting caught would be unbearable to the CB.

And Union/HRL has to know that they are using the elevator to send stuff up - I assume there are still alternative transportation to go to space.

I assume those are expensive and conspicuous.

If you are being realistic, then your "solution" is certain unrealistic...

My solution is to recognize the problem and do something about it. While it doesn't have to be quite as drastic as I described it, it should be enough to dissuade them from using the elevators.

Reminder of all the CB's problems:
- giant robots. Those are big and easily recognizable.
- only three routes to guard.
- unlike other smugglers, the CB can't afford to lose even one cargo.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Not that this discussion is not fun to read but am I the only one who thinks it's very much futile to discuss plotholes and talk about realism in a series where a few mechas can stop a civil war in a day and a private organization is light years ahead in technology from everyone else? A series in which total nutjobs pilot the most powerful mechas in the world, despite the need to keep everything in secret?

Well, yes, it's futile. But I enjoy it more than just saying "Epic" or whatever.

[edf91]

Not sure what is with me - I always jump into topics with people that is so set into their way of thinking that is no real discussion, its like saying two parallel lines will meet...

Anyway, I would just summarized my points:

1) Gundams should be able to be broken down into smaller parts, so in the worse case, they will just transport them up in pieces, and "assemble" them up in space. When you put those in containers, it won't be that big, so it make the "let's inspect the big containers!" moot - the effort required to do it and the chance of catching them is not worth the economical hit you are sure to experience if you dare to implement it.
2) CB "stated" goal is to get rid of wars, but from the looks of things, they want to "drag out" some other forces that seems to be "hidden" in the various big alliance. So they are correct - they are getting rid of the "force" that they think are creating conflicts.
3) All security measures you see added at airports or what not are mostly for shows - they are just there to convince people they are "serious" about it, but the holes in the security are so huge that if they really want to get stuff on airplanes or what not, they can.
4) Defending the elevator is probably "doable" for the alliances, but they have to know it is a target. It currently take a huge force to be able to handle the Gundams, and they cannot just put big forces everywhere. They still have bases of operations everywhere in their terroritories, and they still have to post a minimal amount at the various "point of interest," so it's unrealistic to assume Union/HRL/AEU will tighten security at the elevators unless they KNOW CB is using them to transport Gundam up for sure.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I think I know where the disagreements between Anh_Minh and I came from;

Anh_Minh treated 00 like all the other Gundam series, and assumed that the nations are at a state of total war against the Gundams. And in a state of Total War, locking down all three Elevators can be justified, as domestic needs are secondary to warfare in these situations.

But they are NOT at war. The three world powers consider CB as a major nuisance, but NOT mortal enemies. The only major reason they really wanted to catch a Gundam is for the technological advantage it will grant them over their rivals, not for removing a threat.

If they WERE at total-war, Graham would have his Union Flags tackle the defenseless Exia Gundam with or without the cameras around. Fact of the matter is, officially the only Faction who declared CB their enemy was the HRL, and even then the matter is now problematic with their Super-Soldier program being exposed and sealed.

Until AEU and Union declared war on CB in public, they can't lock down/slow down the Elevator functions with sufficient justification. And even though HRL could lock down their own Elevator because they ARE at war, it is pointless with the other two elevators still operational.

The AEU is only fighting the Gundams by proxy. The Union is too worried about economics and public opinion to sacrifice too much to defeat CB. And HRL can only do so much without coordinating actions with the other two world powers.

This is what happens when you set a Gundam series in peacetime; the governments can't go all-out, because you can only go all-out in a war situation.

[Anh_Minh]

VCV: That's a good point, but considering how much media attention the CB get, I think it could be justified. (And if it can't, they could start up the propaganda machine.)

A terrorist organisation's warmachines going in and out of the elevators is important.

Of course, I guess you could argue that going all out would only precipitate hostilities with the CB. But if so, why try to capture the Gundams?

[astranagun]

I think that the reason they want to capture a Gundam is, like someone said early, for the GN drive.
The reason they want the GN drive, for me at least, is because on what they have have seen is something that produce UNLIMITED energy and if they get (or copy) one there won't be the need for the elevator or solar station= less money used.

[Anh_Minh]

I don't think they even know that much about the GN Drive. They just know that the Gundams are exceedingly good machines that can mess with the surrounding electronics.

[Terra]

It's the fact they don't know much about it is what makes it so appealing. It something new and very effective in what it does with seemingly little limits.

[Eidolon Sniper]

The GN Drive was one of the reasons WHY the entire world is after them, at least Union wise that is....the Union scientist was especially interested in them and wishes to use it in creating new MS with that kind of technology.

[Freya]

Is there no episode this week since there isn't a thread for it yet...?

[Double_Edge]

Man Setsuna is a great actor. i loved that scene when he was confronted by Graham. Wouldnt it be cool if instead of Setsuna being mean and stuff, if he talked in that sweet and innocent voice the whole show and he was a really nice person? Except he gets to pilot a gundam.