Darker Than Black - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Zwei

The more popular the show is and the more haters it gathers. But yeah, negative feedback is very small for this show in comparison to the positive feedback it gets, so no worries about it. Besides, it's not surprising people keep complaining about S2 not living up to their "expectations" and not having the same "feel" (lol) as S1. You should have seen back when Code Geass R2 was airing.

Well, I still find it interesting. You see shows where the poll numbers for the episodes usually run much lower with a much more positive tone to the posts themselves. Perhaps it's because this is a sequel, but for whatever reason it seems to me that the dissatisfied viewers form a larger section of the active posters than with most highly-popular series.

As for Suou being added for reasons of moe, and still being young enough to be loli-worth in a S3 - I'm skeptical. I wouldn't be shocked if she doesn't make it out of S2 alive. No one is quicker to bemoan the preponderance of moe in today's anime than me, but I don't think of either Suou or DtB in those terms at all. I find her a very interesting and sympathetic central character in her own right - and a damn good foil for Hei, as well.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Well, I still find it interesting. You see shows where the poll numbers for the episodes usually run much lower with a much more positive tone to the posts themselves. Perhaps it's because this is a sequel, but for whatever reason it seems to me that the dissatisfied viewers form a larger section of the active posters than with most highly-popular series.

This generally applies for most of the shows. Usually people who are fans of such series refrain from posting, especially when they see negative feedback. The reason is usually that they don't want to get into debates for a show they particularly have great attachment to. And I agree, debating for a show you're in love with is not worth it.

Then again, I can see where the others are coming from. I usually post more when I hate something about a series and not when I like something about it. Then getting into debates about it can either help me appreciate that series more or drop it instantly.

As for Suou being added for reasons of moe, and still being young enough to be loli-worth in a S3 - I'm skeptical. I wouldn't be shocked if she doesn't make it out of S2 alive. No one is quicker to bemoan the preponderance of moe in today's anime than me, but I don't think of either Suou or DtB in those terms at all. I find her a very interesting and sympathetic central character in her own right - and a damn good foil for Hei, as well.

I don't really see a problem with Suou. I mean, Yin was a loli as well and yet I had no problem with her and look at her fanbase now. I really wouldn't mind a S3 with Suou as a grown-up, but if they're really going for a S3, then most likely we won't be getting a timeskip and we'll get a continuation from where S2 left off.

And don't forget, there's the OVAs....

[zalem]

Originally Posted by nubby

This is disgusting! Hei and 12 year old Suou over Misaki? WTF are they thinking and where are they taking this?

Oh I wouldn't worry about that. I highly doubt we're going to see Suou and Hei hook up that way. Suou just has a childish crush. Hei doesn't view her romantically in the least. If anything he views her like a sister. On numerous occasions she is even compared to Bai.

As for Misaki, I'm not really worried about that either. He reacted that way because the only thing he knows is that she is in section 3. He doesn't realize she has her own agenda. All will be ok in the end I believe.

[Reckoner]

Admittedly so, the setup of this second season is much more fan friendly than last seasons. From my experience, it always appears to me that the episodic like anime (Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc.) are often not liked by people who are driven away from episodic shows. A lot of people seem to prefer one continuous storyline over the style that was presented in season 1.

Personally, I thought season 1 was better because of the episodic structure more than anything... But Season 2 is still very good, and the only reason season 2 is not as good is because of its nature of being a continuous storyline the where the pacing will change from time to time. It has had episodes that were a bit "stale" due to this fact. These episodes, are ones with very little plot progression, character development, or meaningful events.

In the end, while it is a matter of taste, Suou hasn't had a humongous effect on my outlook of the show. It is true that without Hei, I would think the show is a lot worse, but Suou isn't a bad character. I do think, in my opinion of course, that most Darker than Black fans like Hei better as the main protagonist. Moreover, Hei as a character really seems to make this show at times.

I must say that many people are blowing the main protagonist issue a little out of proportion. Every time there is an action scene, it has Hei almost every time. A large selling point of this show is the action... Also, Hei is still around for many other things than being a so called "guardian" (If you can call it that, a drunk hobo beating you up). Yes a lot of screen time is given to Suou, but it wasn't like Hei had all the screen time in season 1 either.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Shibataea

Er, not what I meant...

I don't mean that we as viewers know that she's the protagonist (obviously that's going to happen),

Well, yeah. I was just building up to my point.

I really can't agree much with this, especially about barely noticing Hei. Hei's connection to the story and plot is solid, obvious, and undeniable. Simply having Yin's connection to whatever is going on makes that obvious. But since Hei isn't the main character, of course he's not going to be more prominent than Suou.

As for Section 3, we always get plenty of characters, both good and bad, in an anime who don't get their pasts explained or even mentioned. We didn't learn anything about the named antagonists of DtB S1 either, despite it being twice as long as S2. Not even anything on November's past, or anything detailed on Mao's past either. (in that season anyway) Why is DtB S2 special in this? And it only makes sense that their backburner-status be such because of the shorter series length. And we still have 2 more episodes left, so I'd hold back on saying we don't get any background on Section 3 itself. Obviously they have to explain in some way what they are, since Saito made it clear they were a suspicious group right when we first heard their name. But we still have time for that.

[orion]

I'm betting S3 is a front for the syndicate. Wouldn't that be hilarious? The org set up to track down the syndicate is being run by the syndicate.

Originally Posted by zalem

Oh I wouldn't worry about that. I highly doubt we're going to see Suou and Hei hook up that way. Suou just has a childish crush. Hei doesn't view her romantically in the least. If anything he views her like a sister. On numerous occasions she is even compared to Bai.

Now how do you know it's a childish crush? As Suou explains it, it's a very complex feeling she has imo.

Hei keeps coming back for a reason. I suspect he doesn't know himself. She doesn't remind him of Bai. He said it himself.

Like it or not, Hei got a "proto-confession" from a 13 yo. Suou saw and accepted all facets of this guy unlike Misaki who only wants Li back. Suou only needs a 3-4 year aging if she survives this season.

[Chidori<3]

Originally Posted by orion

Suou only needs a 3-4 year aging if she survives this season.

It still would be a sick relationship x_X SuouxHei is the worst thing that BONES could do... they will suck everything much more, if they will do that... Hope they are too smart to do this... Suou is still a kid, she even don't know what love is, so how could she really love Hei ? I think it is something like love for brother, or even for dad... I mean,something this kind.. not romantic one, lucky that Hei doesn't love her that way...

[Guardian Enzo]

Suou is 13 (not 12, FTR) - old enough to have feelings for guys if not really to understand them. It's an age where girls often have crushes on "cool" older guys, and Hei fits that mold pretty well. Plus, he more of less took care of her and July after Suou's entire world collapsed around her (though he was obviously a part of the cause). It's a schoolgirl crush and nothing more - Hei won't act on it, and I think people are making too big a deal of it, honestly.

[Vanehei]

I totally agree with guardian enzo, its a cute schoolgirl crush... just a crush... Hei would never act on that.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Vanehei

I totally agree with guardian enzo, its a cute schoolgirl crush... just a crush... Hei would never act on that.

*not directed entirely at you but the post was convenient*

It seems to me that more emphasis is being placed on her age than what she said. She's an incomplete contractor so whatever you think a 13 yo female is capable of is prob thrown out the window imo.

Koi Kaze had a similar age difference, (27 yo male, 15 yo female), dealt with a more taboo topic, TV rated less than this title in the US (16+), and survived.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I was particularly interested in one of the last things Hei said in this episode: that Suou reminded him of himself.

I think he was referring to her being tossed around by fate, not really understanding or being able to deal with what was happening to her. But there is another similarity in that they both seem to have got their powers from someone else: Hei from his sister, Suou (I believe) from Hei. And also that they are both desperately seeking their sibling. Maybe there are more similarities?

As for the relationship between Hei and Suou, I do see it as a crush/romance from Suou and parental/sibling from Hei, but I'm prepared for anything to happen, as long as they make it believable in human terms.

Feeling this thing from the point of view of a semi-abandoned 13-year-old girl, Hei could be pretty attractive, as well as a bit repulsive. I mean like so bad he's good. And confused as she may be, she sees that he has become a lot less hard on her and more caring.

I'm enjoying these shoujo-ish emotional aspects of the show a lot, as well as the action and plot. This kind of stuff is probably not so attractive to a lot of people, and may be part of the divide between people who prefer the first or the second series.

[Haladflire65]

I'm convinced that Suou's feelings for Hei is basically puppy love. She's only 13, man. Teenage girls... and after all, Hei is a pretty cool guy and he's been taking care of her for a while.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Haladflire65

I'm convinced that Suou's feelings for Hei is basically puppy love. She's only 13, man. Teenage girls... and after all, Hei is a pretty cool guy and he's been taking care of her for a while.

Stockholm syndrome?

I believe Suou's love for Hei is genuine. This is anime we're talking about; there is no point in trying to mislead us like this. It's not the first time we've seen it and it's not the last time we'll see it either, most definitely. Umm, but yeah, I cannot honestly see Hei reciprocate Suou's feelings. Then again, he was fighting for his sister in S1 and after finding out she actually died quite a long time ago, he found a new reason to live in (Yin)?.....................so? If Yin dies, he may find a new reason to live in Suou?

EDIT: Can't forget about Misaki. I'm still supporting you.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm enjoying these shoujo-ish emotional aspects of the show a lot, as well as the action and plot. This kind of stuff is probably not so attractive to a lot of people, and may be part of the divide between people who prefer the first or the second series.

whatisthisidonteven

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Zwei

...whatisthisidonteven

I was referring to all the inner emotional aspects, particularly the romantic things. Suou watching Nico and Tanya; being confused by Norio; her conflicted feelings for Hei. I think this kind of stuff is more part of shoujo animanga than of shounen. Anyway, I get a shoujo feeling from it. I said "shoujo-ish" rather than "shoujo" in order not to get trapped into exact details of what is shoujo and what isn't, lol.

By the way, much as I like Suou and the second season, I agree that part of the reason she was added was to increase the show's popularity by adding moe. And I think the popularity on 2channel suggests it may have worked.

[Shinji103]

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of SuouxHei if it happens. You guys who are whining about it obviously aren't accepting (or are just oblivious to) the fact that just-as-big or bigger age gaps happen in real life. If it's okay in real life, I'm sure it's not killing anybody to have it in a fictionated television production.

They have yaoi (gay) and yuri (lesbianism) in anime too.

It's perfectly fine if you don't like it, people in real life feel like they have the right to butt in on other peoples' relationships too if they feel they aren't made for each other. Just don't treat your opinions like they're law. Not that I'm saying everybody here is doing so, but there are some who seem to be getting there, although I suppose that just can't be helped sometimes, as it's part of human nature.

More back-to-topic, at this point I really couldn't choose who I'd prefer Hei get together with, Yin or Suou. They just did a really good job getting me to like Suou. Although my Yin fan-ism will probably shoot back up with the OVA next month. Who he'll actually choose is anyone's guess at the moment though.

As for the idea of "puppy love," as I said before Mao made the blunt statement that Suou is in love with Hei, which I'd bet is Bones' shot at making up for not making Hei and Yin's relationship clear. And at this point so close to the end of the season it would be dumb to bring up such a flimsy idea, especially when they're obviously going to need time to have Suou realize what these feelings actually are. She's truly in love with him; figuring that out for herself and whether or not it happens/pans out is what's going to be happening between her and Hei for the last two episodes.

If I had to make a guess though, I'd say Hei saves Yin and they get back together. As much as age gaps exist in real life, I actually haven't seen many of them in anime (of course, there aren't anywhere near as many animes as couples in the world), so it wouldn't be my first guess that Bones would go for one. I'm still sticking with my speculation that the OP for S2, with Suou travelling around with Mao, is intended to be a hidden indicator from Bones on how the season will end.

[TaintedMarshMellows]

If it's SuouxHei I'm fine with it, tho I'm personally rooting for HeixMisaki!

[Guardian Enzo]

I'm certainly not fine with a romantic relationship between a man in his 20's and a 13 year-old girl in RL. Age gaps are one thing when we're talking, say 35 and 21 - when either partner is 13 you're way outisde anything acceptable, IMO.

As to whether I find it OK in an anime, well... Listen, it's fiction so whatver. I do feel, though, that if you're talking about an eroge or an ecchi comedy that's something different than if you're talking about a fairly serious character drama. While they can do whatever the hell they want and I don't really care, I think it would be a mistake for this show in dramatic terms if they were to condone a serious romantic relationship between Hei and Suou. And indeed, I very much doubt they will.

[Haladflire65]

I agree. DTB's never really focused on romance and I don't think they'll start on the penultimate episode.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I'm certainly not fine with a romantic relationship between a man in his 20's and a 13 year-old girl in RL. Age gaps are one thing when we're talking, say 35 and 21 - when either partner is 13 you're way outisde anything acceptable, IMO.

Of course, you're making the rather arrogant (no offense) assumption that they're going to start "getting at it" (to avoid using a more improper term) right away. 5/6 years from now, they're perfectly fine to do whatever they want. It wouldn't be the first time in anime/JP games where one end of the couple is underage and they waited until the proper time.

It's only a ~10-year age gap; they can wait 5/6 years until Suou is 18/19, or wait 7 for her to be 20. I've seen age gaps as big as 13 and bigger in real life.

As to whether I find it OK in an anime, well... Listen, it's fiction so whatver. I do feel, though, that if you're talking about an eroge or an ecchi comedy that's something different than if you're talking about a fairly serious character drama. While they can do whatever the hell they want and I don't really care, I think it would be a mistake for this show in dramatic terms if they were to condone a serious romantic relationship between Hei and Suou. And indeed, I very much doubt they will.

Well they kind of already have made it clear that Suou is in love with Hei, so......

And like I said, they might not actually get together. We don't know. I'd bet on not myself, because Hei has more history and involvement (see OVA trailer) with Yin for one thing. But if they do, they're no less okay to do it than anybody in real life. And as I said above, you're making the assumption that they'd "get at it" right away.

Originally Posted by Haladflire65

I agree. DTB's never really focused on romance and I don't think they'll start on the penultimate episode.

As far as S1 is concerned, I'd agree with you. But S2........well, they just did. Suou laid out her feelings clearly (no way is anything that deep going to be cleaved down to something as flimsy and simple as "puppy love," that would be a mistake on the penultimate episode), and Mao gave us the skinny in black and white. The only question is whether or not it'll happen, and like I said, I'd personally guess not. But if it did, they'd be no less okay to have their feelings than anyone else.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of SuouxHei if it happens. You guys who are whining about it obviously aren't accepting (or are just oblivious to) the fact that just-as-big or bigger age gaps happen in real life. If it's okay in real life, I'm sure it's not killing anybody to have it in a fictionated television production.

They have yaoi (gay) and yuri (lesbianism) in anime too.

It's perfectly fine if you don't like it, people in real life feel like they have the right to butt in on other peoples' relationships too if they feel they aren't made for each other. Just don't treat your opinions like they're law.

Uh, actually the law does step in to prevent 13 year olds from having inappropriate relationships with adults. It's not the age difference that bothers people, it's the fact that it's a child. A relationship with a child is not ok.

Of course, this is fake. It's only an anime. But I find this kind of thing repulsive even in an anime. *shrugs*

However, like I said I don't have any issues with Suou having a crush on Hei. Young girls do get crushes afterall. Hei returning feelings, on the other hand, would be severely disturbing. But, as I said before I don't see that happening. The only way this would be ok is if there was some sort of time-skip. But I'm kind of doubtful about that....