Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 28 Discussion

[monster]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Except he won't.

If Flit had been the sole main character, I would agree with you. But since we have Asem, and now Kio, I can see the possibility of Flit ending up like Anakin Skywalker, as far as letting his rage and hatred completely take over and being just as bad, if not worse, than the Vagans (before possibly being redeemed at the end).

Of course, Sunrise could always take the safe choice and never let Flit commit genocide or at least attempt it.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

I thought it's COMMON SENSE that vagan's wrong so that's there's no need to point out the sky is blue... ? Maybe it's just me...

Yeah, I'm guessing you didn't see the AGE episode 15 thread? Lots of painting the Vagans white there. Same on TVTropes.

[atilim]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Sorry, I just had to make one last

LOL

at how the only way the Flit fanboys can attack the anti-genocide-ers is by accusing us of defending the Vegans' actions when we absolutely are not.


Well that's not a problem. Since Flit doesn't want to negotiate with the Vegans, whether it's possible or not. As he specifically said in his own words clear as day. He said "I don't want to negotiate peace with them. I want to wipe them out."


Okay. Now I'm done.

Calling anybody that doesn't agree with your fanboys does not strengthen your argument in any shape or form.

Also I honestly doubt that Flit will die as a villain comparable to Patrick Zalla from Seed. If this was any other Gundam show then I could see it happen because Flit lost is spot as main character at the end of Age 1 arc. But since we are talking about a show that is aimed at children and killing Flit of will be similar as to let the protagonist die at the end of a movie.

Even if Japan has different views then us when it comes to whats OK in tv shows and movies we still share some basic stuff like heroes don't die, the hero is cool (in some ways) and the hero is not evil. Of course this is ignoring media where the protagonist is a anti-hero but that is a unique genre

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

This episode did feel a little rushed, but that new Vagan MS was totally awesome. I'm surprised Zeheart didn't die in the end, I was sure he would, but now it'll be very interesting to see how he'll end up in gen 3.

Romary looked so beautiful in that wedding dress. Asem better tap that 10 times on the honeymoon.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, I'm guessing you didn't see the AGE episode 15 thread? Lots of painting the Vagans white there. Same on TVTropes.

Now that i have looked at that, i think you have a point, although i still feel that the whole argument has gone at the wrong direction here. Some may be crazy/hypocritical for real, but i think some other people here are being unfairly lumped together with the "crazy" ones, just because they bash Flit, some more harshly than others.

Originally Posted by atilim

Calling anybody that doesn't agree with your fanboys does not strengthen your argument in any shape or form.

Or how about also addressing the argument at hand ? You haven't refute everything yet.

[SagaraSouske]

What do you guys propose Federation and Flit do if you are against genocide?

Defend and keep offering a truce that will not get accepted?
Conduct propaganda warfare to try to convert Vagans back to normal humans?
Locate and assassinate Vagan leader and hope for someone less determined to take over?

I am interested to see some workable solution being proposed to make genocide a choice that will not be necessary.

While Genocide is bad, when there are only two choice between that and survival, there is nothing wrong with choosing survival.

[maplehurry]

^Want to know the answer? Stay tuned for the final episode. Or just pick up a history book to see how ww2 ended. And massacre =/= killing EVERYONE on the other side.

[atilim]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Now that i have looked at that, i think you have a point, although i still feel that the whole argument has gone at the wrong direction here. Some may be crazy/hypocritical for real, but i think some other people here are being unfairly lumped together with the "crazy" ones, just because they bash Flit, some more harshly than others.




Or how about also addressing the argument at hand ? You haven't refute everything yet.

Care to explain the argument then? Because I've did it a few times already and the answer I got back was ''You Flit Fanboy so your argument invalid''...... If people are going to insult others when they don't share the same opinion then I will also refrain myself by addressing any argument that person wrote.

I will also ask again then how can Flit aim for peace with Vagan after a corrupt puppet government failed to reach any form of peace. Because this alone is important from Flit's point of view.

If the people of Vagan denounce their current leader and disarm then Flit is the type of person to accept that. But the impression people from Vagan given to us (and strengthen by the ex president said before taken away) is that the only way Vagan would stop fighting is if one side is completely wiped out, Flit could offer Vagan a whole continent (chances are the old government already did) and still Vagan wouldn't accept it because they clearly look down on earthlings (see half the BS the Magician 8 where shouting before being killed)

When comparing to other universes you also have to look at the exact situation. Usually both sides had some moderates but in the case of Age their aren't any moderate leaders on the side of Vagan.

Also another thing about Asemu's wedding, I've been looking at brides parents n eps 19 and I don't see any brown haired (similar to Romaly) people during the wedding.

[Nivek von Beldo]

After Watched the Chapter.... simple is wow... that was even a bigger twist than in the chapter 15, simple AGE have his moment who is peerless.

After I think was true that the High Goverment was Involved, but not how so involve and so high in the goverment was with the Veigan, Simple, Lord Elzecant is the Palpatine of the AGE Series.

Even with their difference, both father and son work together pretty nice, and they(finally) solve the romantic side with Romary(and thus Kio Conception is safe for now)

But i'll not lied to you... this chapter fell so fast, like was not cutted... this would have demand a whole hour to explain all the elements.

In general was a interesting Ending for his generation, the generation of Deception(when all the people was Deciver and Decived), not we're close to Kio generation, the Generation of Victory...

Simple, i want at least 15 chapter more, after that... the universe is in hand of Bandai...

[maplehurry]

I will also ask again then how can Flit aim for peace with Vagan after a corrupt puppet government failed to reach any form of peace.

Because history tells us that this is not the most convincing method to achieve/force end of conflict.

Usually both sides had some moderates but in the case of Age their aren't any moderate leaders on the side of Vagan.

There are different angles of "moderate". That Lord Ez is not a moderate in his method and ambition. But would he refuse to surrender even if his whole people would be annilated otherwise ? We don't know him enough to tell either way at this point.

[SagaraSouske]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

^Want to know the answer? Stay tuned for the final episode. Or just pick up a history book to see how ww2 ended. And massacre =/= killing EVERYONE on the other side.

Using history book as a guide only work if Vagans operate like Japan/Germany during World War 2 - where the war is fought for resource and conquest and the majority of their population are not fanatics. This does not seem to be the case here. Vagans want to eradicate humans, not conquer them.

But tune in for the final episode of course is sound advice. Let's just hope the writers give a reasonable rationale.

[maplehurry]

Using history book as a guide only work if Vagans operate like Japan/Germany during World War 2 - where the war is fought for resource and conquest and the majority of their population are not fanatics. This does not seem to be the case here. Vagans want to eradicate humans, not conquer them.

Vagans want Earth for themselves so that's the same as fighting for resources and conquest. As for fanaticism, well, they just treat that Lord Ez like God. So it depends on Lord Ez's decision when it comes down to it.

Vagans want to eradicate humans, not conquer them.

Pretty sure Vagans would want to send earthlings to Mars instead hehe

[Myssa Rei]

You know, a few things just bugged me this episode. I think I groaned when they showed all those Adeles just STANDING there and shooting at the three Vagan suits. Gunlines do NOT work against mobile units. Oh, right, redshirts.

Then there's the sequence where we had the new suit just... waits there, while Flit finished his diatribe against the prime minister. In real life, it would have SHOT the stage then and there, getting rid of the potential liability (the prime minister) as well as the greatest threat to the Vagan incursion (Flit himself).

And lets not get into the "Oh hey, we don't have time to develop Romary x Asemu, so lets just solve this by timeskipping to their wedding!" sequence. Ugh.

[maplehurry]

And lets not get into the "Oh hey, we don't have time to develop Romary x Asemu, so lets just solve this by timeskipping to their wedding!" sequence. Ugh.

Already an improvement over the previous generation haha.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

You know, a few things just bugged me this episode. I think I groaned when they showed all those Adeles just STANDING there and shooting at the three Vagan suits. Gunlines do NOT work against mobile units. Oh, right, redshirts.

Then there's the sequence where we had the new suit just... waits there, while Flit finished his diatribe against the prime minister. In real life, it would have SHOT the stage then and there, getting rid of the potential liability (the prime minister) as well as the greatest threat to the Vagan incursion (Flit himself).

And lets not get into the "Oh hey, we don't have time to develop Romary x Asemu, so lets just solve this by timeskipping to their wedding!" sequence. Ugh.

Even though skipping all that is kinda lame. At least it gets the point across. Asem and Romary at some point wanna bone each other, they get married, Kio is born. Pretty straight forward.

It's better than NOT showing us who he ended up with all the way till gen 3 at least.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

You know, a few things just bugged me this episode. I think I groaned when they showed all those Adeles just STANDING there and shooting at the three Vagan suits. Gunlines do NOT work against mobile units. Oh, right, redshirts.

Then there's the sequence where we had the new suit just... waits there, while Flit finished his diatribe against the prime minister. In real life, it would have SHOT the stage then and there, getting rid of the potential liability (the prime minister) as well as the greatest threat to the Vagan incursion (Flit himself).

And lets not get into the "Oh hey, we don't have time to develop Romary x Asemu, so lets just solve this by timeskipping to their wedding!" sequence. Ugh.

And that was much better how was solve the Flit & Emily Relationship.... But don't worry, in the Third Generation we going to have our Love triangle with Kio facing to chose between his chilhood friend(and partner in the Diva) or the Vegan Princess who is the key to end the war and family feud for more than fifty years,

[FLCL]

Flit is giving me major Bask Om/Scirocco/Jamitov Zeta vibes.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Man the trolling this show has had to endure around the internet (not so much here, compared to many places you guys rock )is really reaching a crescendo again with this arcs finale and frankly I can't say I'm all that surprised since this is usually around the time when people pull out all the stops when it comes to griping about Gundam. Typically you'll have people going bonkers at the start when it's not quite what they expected, things even out a little around the second quarter (see also 00) as people get used to the characters and universe, and then typically there'll be some huge revelation about the universe that changes up the dynamic of the show a bit and from there on out it's just plain ridiculous the lengths some will go to shit all over everything the latest Gundam series has to offer. These next few months are going to be really unpleasant when it comes to the commentary surrounding this show, I can feel it already.

Fortunately all the griping about the pacing comes off IMO as unsubstantiated bullshit and the episode is actually pretty good and brings the characters along yet again in their experiences and viewpoints. Where Flit will go from here I'm not entirely sure and how Asemu will influence Kio and likewise Flit also remains to be seen as potential points of interest for the 3rd gen. Somehow I can Flit ending up not necessarily portrayed as a villain, but as at least and bit of an antagonist to Kio in the third arc. At this point he's essentially become no better than the Vegans that failed to treasure life when they attacked the Earth Sphere's colonies in the first generation, but when you look at how he got to this point it's understandable and actually getting to see this unfold has been one of the greatest strengths of the generational concept IMO. You just plain don't see this sort of thing in a lot of shows these days let alone anime. As for Asemu, since he was actually successful in protecting the people he cares about unlike his father I don't see any reason why he'll have the same dark turn that Flit has had. If anything he's basically becomes what Flit used to be at the end of his arc so if he passes that onto Kio.....well the way I see it Kio is most likely going to get caught having too choose between following the ideals of his father versus those of his grandfather.

And yeah just because I feel it bears mentioning, I really don't get the whole pacing complaint with this one at all. I just don't see how it was any different from the first arc in terms of pacing. The way I see it the first arc basically went like this:

- Character introductions and initial UE invasions resulting in Flit's life getting turned upside down (3 eps)
- Travelling on the Diva to build war power for a decisive attack on Ambat (2 eps)
- Acquiring said warpower at Fardain and Madorna workshop (5 eps)
- Planning for attack strategy on Ambat, fateful encounter between Flit and Yurin (2 eps)
- Final attack on Ambat with big reveal and major revelation for main characters outlook on life (3 eps)

Second arc more or less went:

- Character introductions and resurgence of Vegan invasions with Flit passing on his legacy to Asemu, establishment of friendship between Asemu, Romary and Zeheart (3 Eps)
- Traveling on the Diva to head off Vegan incursions and figure out exactly what their strategy is and how best to stop it. (3 eps)
- Asemu's continual struggle with situation he has been placed in and desperation to prove himself to those around him (3 eps)
- Vegan plans for invasion of Earth commence (2 eps)
- Final attack on Earth Federation orbital defences with big reveal of Federation conspiracy and a major revelation for main characters outlook on life. (2 eps)

the only difference I can see is that the first arc took a little longer getting through the middle portions, but if we are to assume that now the principle cast his been assembled and all the big reveals have been made and that the 3rd arc will be the longest (should be 22 eps if it's the usual 50 count for a Gundam), feature all 3 generations interacting with each other, and continue the story of Ezelcant's plan than IMO it's probably better that this arc be a couple episodes shorter if it means that the last arc will get the bulk of the focus as a result.

That said I do have actually have one complaint about how all of this wrapped up for the generation. Why is this the first episode that I can recall where we've ever had any sort of extended development for Romary and why does it have to come at the very end of the generation arc where it's pretty much after the fact? Of all the complaints I've heard about the show so far I think this has been the fairest one, she was just sort of there as the damsel in distress for most of the arc.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

And yeah just because I feel it bears mentioning, I really don't get the whole pacing complaint with this one at all. I just don't see how it was any different from the first arc in terms of pacing. The way I see it the first arc basically went like this:

- Character introductions and initial UE invasions resulting in Flit's life getting turned upside down (3 eps)
- Travelling on the Diva to build war power for a decisive attack on Ambat (2 eps)
- Acquiring said warpower at Fardain and Madorna workshop (5 eps)
- Planning for attack strategy on Ambat, fateful encounter between Flit and Yurin (2 eps)
- Final attack on Ambat with big reveal and major revelation for main characters outlook on life (3 eps)

Second arc more or less went:

- Character introductions and resurgence of Vegan invasions with Flit passing on his legacy to Asemu, establishment of friendship between Asemu, Romary and Zeheart (3 Eps)
- Traveling on the Diva to head off Vegan incursions and figure out exactly what their strategy is and how best to stop it. (3 eps)
- Asemu's continual struggle with situation he has been placed in and desperation to prove himself to those around him (3 eps)
- Vegan plans for invasion of Earth commence (2 eps)
- Final attack on Earth Federation orbital defences with big reveal of Federation conspiracy and a major revelation for main characters outlook on life. (2 eps)

the only difference I can see is that the first arc took a little longer getting through the middle portions, but if we are to assume that now the principle cast his been assembled and all the big reveals have been made and that the 3rd arc will be the longest (should be 22 eps if it's the usual 50 count for a Gundam), feature all 3 generations interacting with each other, and continue the story of Ezelcant's plan than IMO it's probably better that this arc be a couple episodes shorter if it means that the last arc will get the bulk of the focus as a result.

I sort of agree with you that if we look at how it was paced, both generations worked on the same rhythm so there isn't really an issue with the pacing itself ... just the amount of time allocated to each generation makes everything feel very stuffed in and at times make the staff and writers cut corners in order to achieve the result they want in this short time span.

Like you said, having all 3 protagonists in the same generation is probably why they gave the lions share of episodes to the 3rd generation, so it all makes sense when you lay it on paper ... but when we watch the show, I can't help but feel at times (not always, but sometimes) like the show is trying to go through the motions and get things over quickly that cause dramatic or important events that should honestly have more impact lack a lot of punch to them, and at other times make it look like there is a lot of development missing to make us care enough about what is going on with a certain characters, as you have pointed out:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

That said I do have actually have one complaint about how all of this wrapped up for the generation. Why is this the first episode that I can recall where we've ever had any sort of extended development for Romary and why does it have to come at the very end of the generation arc where it's pretty much after the fact? Of all the complaints I've heard about the show so far I think this has been the fairest one, she was just sort of there as the damsel in distress for most of the arc.

This honestly made me question at one recent point if they were even going to show Romary and Asem getting together at all from how nonexistent the relationship was between the two, since I as a viewer never seen the two exchange much of any significant comment before during their school years (we skipped through the majority of those) or during the time during the Diva (Romary hardly spoke at all during those, and when she did she often shot herself in the foot, sans the last episode and this one) to the point where she ended up not only lacking in personality, but for also purpose in this story.

Now to be fair, sometimes this skipping doesn't do that much harm, as in the case of Zeheart and Asem being friends being this important point in the conflict, but these two got a lot of time to show us the off-screen bond they developed, so it managed to overcome the lack of screen time to show just important the two were to each other.

I don't want to keep on pointing things I find to be lacking in AGE because I honestly like the show and actually believe that it can produce fantastic episodes that manage to tug out my heart and make me care for the central cast and the conflict, but at the same time the lack of time is seriously harming the potential for greatness with the show.

I think that had they gone with larger episode count for each generation it would've helped explore the IMO great ideas the show had been showing so far, but as of now I think they came short in some areas and especially with the second generation finale.

[Roloko vi Britannia]

Kinda rushed for the finale of the second gen, but at least we got to see Arisa's milf Mom so I'm happy. Dique banged a sexy blond chick what a lucky man.

Betting on Asemu is going to have bitchin sideburns like Woolf.

Don't care what anyone says I loved the little wedding scene very cute.

Still giving AGE an 8/10 cause its still giving me my enjoyment every week and the story is still interesting. Depending on how the last arc goes it will either stay at an 8 unless it somehow turns bad then 7/10 or if it goes out with a big bang then 9/10. I have faith the third gen will be just as epic as the second gen.