(L) Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 (BONES)

[WanderingKnight]

Eh, I'm going for in-between both. Like I've said already ghosts in Japanese stories not being actual "physical" ghosts but rather a force or will of some kind influencing somehow the real life events is a pretty common thing. I don't see a reason to believe otherwise in this case.

Delusion caused by the will of her brother would not be unheard of in these kinds of stories.

(BTW, I'd personally prefer this was an actual physical delusion, but that's not all the story has led me to believe, so meh. Also, did no one catch the "Crash Syndrome" (what the hell is that, I know there are lots of PTSD that cause delusions but I haven't found that one) mention in the preview for episode 10?).

[orion]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

(BTW, I'd personally prefer this was an actual physical delusion, but that's not all the story has led me to believe, so meh. Also, did no one catch the "Crash Syndrome" (what the hell is that, I know there are lots of PTSD that cause delusions but I haven't found that one) mention in the preview for episode 10?).

It got buried in the thread.

CRASH syndrome was not what they meant.

Crush syndrome is what they meant.

[fish eric]

I have and still do enjoy this show, but there is one thing I am not happy about.

IMO Yukki's death carried no significance at all. The problem was instead of us watching Yukki die and being all OMG cry cry Yukki is gone to heaven the show procrastinated and stretched out Yukki's death.


Now we all know Yukki is dead, but I doubt that even one person cried when they found out.

I wonder if this was done because alot of little kids watch this show and they didn't want to make it too sad. After all this is the first and only major character to die.

Originally Posted by orion

It got buried in the thread.

CRASH syndrome was not what they meant.

Crush syndrome is what they meant.

We learned about this when I got my EMT license. If you ever show up to a 911 call and it is say and old person trapped under a book shelf you have to slowly lift the object because the poison will get released.

[klare]

finally... mystery solved, i guess next eps they trying to show life goes on

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by fish eric

I wonder if this was done because alot of little kids watch this show and they didn't want to make it too sad.

There must be a lot of sleepy little kids in Japanese schools then since both the Kantou and Kansai airings of this show take place after midnight.

I suppose some kids might watch episodes that have been recorded on DVR/DVD/VHS, but there can't be a "lot" of little kids in the audience. The total audience is only around 2-4% of households.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, the latest batch of ratings was pretty consistent in both Kansai and Kantou - dismal.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Well, the latest batch of ratings was pretty consistent in both Kansai and Kantou - dismal.

It's not the kind of show (or time slot for that matter) that typically does well in ratings anyway so I still don't see what this is supposed to prove.

[Tatiana Razajev]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

It's not the kind of show (or time slot for that matter) that typically does well in ratings anyway so I still don't see what this is supposed to prove.

Speaking of which. Over the years, I've actually conditioned myself to assume that most shows do poorly when it comes to things like ratings and/or DVD sales. That anything that does well is the exception not the rule. Granted this is probably a very cynical view, but it's just the way I am.

In any case, I watched the broadcast of episode 11. I don't have much to say on it right now since I kind of need to watch it subbed later.

All I will say for now is the following. It had a few low points among the higher points, but I can say that over all it was a decent series. Maybe a few improvements would have been nice, but you could make that claim about almost any series.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Ep11. When I find tears coursing down my cheeks, I know that a show has succeeded.

To me, it seems that people are standing outside the emotional flow of this show, seeking things to criticize. Trying to write it rather than watch it. Maybe it was no masterpiece, and maybe it was too melodramatic for some tastes, but it was a good show. I didn't see any real flaws, just dramatic decisions that one can agree or disagree with. Even I might have written the show differently, but it had a powerful impact on me, even if it didn't on others.

I think Yuuki was an illusion, not a ghost. If you don't want to believe this is medically possible, fine. But it was dramatically pretty effective, if you let it be. I'm not interested in listening to people crab about whether this was "realistic" or not, and whether the show was "supposed to be" realistic. I just want to get the most out of the drama.

I am used to shows I like being disliked by others. When I see a manipulative trifle like K-On becoming the best-selling anime of all time, I lose respect for the Japanese buying public. I enjoyed K-On, but it was nowhere near that good. I loved Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu, but now I understand how people who didn't like it felt.

However, to say TM8's ratings were "dismal" is an exaggeration. At 2.9% for last week (I don't see this week's number on 2channel yet), it was still the highest-rated post-midnight anime. Lower than many other Noitamina shows, but also broadcast later than any other Noitamina show I can remember. And it was over 4.0 the week before.

By the way, great work by Inoue Kikuko as Mirai's mother this week, as well as by Hanamura satomi as Mirai herself.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by orion

Businesses do worry about payments. That medical staff wasn't working for free and neither are the crematoriums. The supplies to the hospital weren't free. Bills have to be paid. When you can get paid, you look for payment. (That nice nurse that did the patient's medical history in Mirai's dream was also gettng the payment info I bet.) It decreases the government debt as the government will be the ones sucking up the debt from the disaster if the hospitals, employees, etc aren't paid by normal means. Bodies can be frozen while awaiting to be picked up.

You really didn't think that the hospital staff wasn't being paid for this?

Edit: Of course, being a nice MD only goes so far.

Unlike America, Japan (and pretty much every other first world nation except the US) has universal social healthcare. Who pays the medical staffs' bills? The Japanese taxpayers. We don't have doctors or nurses asking "whose your insurance company, do you have insurance, etc. etc." when you're screaming in pain, or have to fork over USD $500+ just for an ambulance ride. We also do not dump mentally ill patients in a shanty town because he/she cannot pay their bills, nor do we leave patients neglected on the floor for hours until she's dead, nor do we have inept emergency operators who won't do anything because of lack of common sense.

[Tatiana Razajev]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

To me, it seems that people are standing outside the emotional flow of this show, seeking things to criticize. Trying to write it rather than watch it.

Let's just say there's a reason I have no desire to be a critic for lack of a better term. That doesn't mean I won't make comments along the lines of "I liked this" or "I didn't like that". It's just that I prefer to focus more on watching the show.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not interested in listening to people crab about whether this was "realistic" or not, and whether the show was "supposed to be" realistic. I just want to get the most out of the drama.

Rather than get into a debate over how realistic it is, I'll just say the following. I've watched enough shows (be it anime or otherwise) lacking in terms of being realistic that I've grown used to it by now.

So for me whether or not this series is 100% realistic isn't much of an issue for me. I will admit it did take some time to get used to some aspects of the later episodes, but I eventually adjusted.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

When I see a manipulative trifle like K-On becoming the best-selling anime of all time, I lose respect for the Japanese buying public.

In the interest of full disclosure, K-ON! is one of my favorite series. As such if it ever got licensed I'd be one of the "evil" people buying it. Assuming it got a reasonable release of course.

With that out of the way, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with any given series selling well. Especially since it goes across the board. Some stuff I like sells well, some stuff I like sells poorly, and you get the idea by now.

Also, keep in mind that no matter how large or small a collective of buyers is, they are still individuals. With each person buying for his or her own reason or another.

Sorry if I'm going off on a tangent, but I'm starting to be reminded of the attack X in order to promote Y strategy. One that I've never been fond of at all. Especially depressing for scenarios where I like both X and Y.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

it seems that people are standing outside the emotional flow of this show

That is partially correct, I would say after the events of recent episodes I lost my emotional investment in the show (reasons for which I explained before).

seeking things to criticize.

-but I think this is unfair. How can we be accused of purposefully trying to hate the show when most of us were the biggest fans of the show back in the earlier days of its airing? I mean our gushing is right there in the beginning of this thread for all to see. It's just a simpler explanation - we didn't like the changes the show went through on their own, objective merits, while others did. Can't we just meet in the middle ground there?

When I see a manipulative trifle like K-On becoming the best-selling anime of all time, I lose respect for the Japanese buying public.

Trash selling better than quality is something that is near universal, the Japanese anime community is just another example of it. While I'd like to believe that the Japanese consumers of this stuff have a higher standard, it just isn't true and I don't expect that of them.

Originally Posted by kj1980

We don't have doctors or nurses asking "whose your insurance company, do you have insurance, etc. etc." when you're screaming in pain, or have to fork over USD $500+ just for an ambulance ride. .

I don't want to get into a political debate, and as a Canadian, I have no love for America's healthcare system, but hospitals are "required by law to assess and stabilize anybody who walks through the emergency-room door". And doctors don't involve themselves with anything other than treating patients.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by orion

An open mind is best. A delusion wouldn't have advance knowledge or made to have one in retrospect of those little things like Hina being alive or that building about to collapse causing Mirai and Itsuki to fall to their deaths. That would be the difference that was shown in the anime that would sep a delusion from a ghost imo.

Besides, there's only 1 ep. to go. Ghost is the simplest and fastest way to resolution imo. Delusion requires therapy.

Rather than advance knowledge, I think Yuki represented Mari's hope, which lead her to keep searching for Hina, and subconciousness, which anticipated the wisdom of getting Itsuki out of the unstable building.

Mirai probably should have therapy, even if she does reach acceptance of Yuki's death in one episode.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Quote:
it seems that people are standing outside the emotional flow of this show

Any show relies on the audience taking the feelings of the characters seriously. When those feeling are difficult to accept, because of a crazy situation, or deadening unoriginality, not so many people like the show (TM8's handicap is definately the former one).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Ep11. When I find tears coursing down my cheeks, I know that a show has succeeded.

To me, it seems that people are standing outside the emotional flow of this show, seeking things to criticize. Trying to write it rather than watch it. Maybe it was no masterpiece, and maybe it was too melodramatic for some tastes, but it was a good show. I didn't see any real flaws, just dramatic decisions that one can agree or disagree with. Even I might have written the show differently, but it had a powerful impact on me, even if it didn't on others.

I think Yuuki was an illusion, not a ghost. If you don't want to believe this is medically possible, fine. But it was dramatically pretty effective, if you let it be. I'm not interested in listening to people crab about whether this was "realistic" or not, and whether the show was "supposed to be" realistic. I just want to get the most out of the drama.

I am used to shows I like being disliked by others. When I see a manipulative trifle like K-On becoming the best-selling anime of all time, I lose respect for the Japanese buying public. I enjoyed K-On, but it was nowhere near that good. I loved Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu, but now I understand how people who didn't like it felt.

However, to say TM8's ratings were "dismal" is an exaggeration. At 2.9% for last week (I don't see this week's number on 2channel yet), it was still the highest-rated post-midnight anime. Lower than many other Noitamina shows, but also broadcast later than any other Noitamina show I can remember. And it was over 4.0 the week before.

By the way, great work by Inoue Kikuko as Mirai's mother this week, as well as by Hanamura satomi as Mirai herself.

Just for the record K-On isn't the best selling anime of all time, it's merely the best selling TV Series Blu-Ray line so far. However it seems now you have finally come to understand where I was coming from these past few years and likewise I now get why you hold emotions to such a high degree when it comes to your reaction to anime.

I really do think that the shows that have honest to god effort (as oppossed to pandering) put into them tend to get socked around too much by today's community while the marketing gimmick pieces that feature no ambition in their premise seem to get off with a light slap on the wrist or god forbid even praise. Maybe it's because nobody really expects anything from the latter type of anime (although that's debatable so I don't know) but it just doesn't seem like a level playing field when the shows that actually try to make you give a damn get all the tough criticism.

It's as if to say that trying to make money and succeeding (and we've all seen demonstrated multiple times with products like K-On, Isshoni Training and Hatsune Miku that that's not exactly the worlds biggest challenge outside of finding the right fetish to cater to at the right time and to the right audience) is praiseworthy and a sign of quality, but trying to make a compelling anime (much harder IMO) shouldn't even be attempted lest you come up short on some front and have to face the degree of scorn of the kind that I've seen heaped on TM8 in this thread. This to trend to me discourages even the idea of making an attempt at creativity and realistic drama (w/ macguffin) and I would imagine is the kind of message that would in the long run make companies further consider going over to the sure fire money making methods if they want to stay afloat. As in they could potentially some day (perhaps sooner than we'd think) see it as just not being worth the trouble when there's more opportunity to pay their bills and make a living by taking the easy path with moe and reference bait.

I don't know but to me Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 trying and regularly managing to get me to genuinely care about what happens to and what could happen to it's characters makes me think success and praiseworthy far more than if say.......the next K-On volume were to sell a million Blu-Rays and DVD's. I just hope that BONES has been getting some positive feedback on Tokyo Magnitude from Japanese viewers.

Originally Posted by theowne

Trash selling better than quality is something that is near universal, the Japanese anime community is just another example of it. While I'd like to believe that the Japanese consumers of this stuff have a higher standard, it just isn't true and I don't expect that of them.

To me they've become the example, though I'd substitute the word trash for moe tripe. I mean don't get me wrong, I have nothing against moe and love me a loli and cute girl or two, but frankly anything that controls the buying habits and trends of a sub-culture to that degree and threatens us with saturation is not a good thing.

[Tatiana Razajev]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I really do think that the shows that have honest to god effort (as oppossed to pandering) put into them tend to get socked around too much by today's community while the marketing gimmick pieces that feature no ambition in their premise seem to get off with a light slap on the wrist or god forbid even praise.

Perhaps the following is a sign that I've been involved in too many anime discussions in general, but here goes nothing. Over the years I've seen it go all across the board.

It's not as simple as people automatically praising show type X and automatically criticizing show type Y. There will be some that praise show type Y and others that criticize show type X.

The key with any is being balanced. On one hand, it should not be treated more harshly just because it's the type of show it is. On the other hand, it should not be treated as untouchable for the same reasoning.

There's also the matter of properly understanding the intent of a series. Too many people have misplaced expectations. Either they expect every show to be the same way or misunderstand the intent of a show completely.

Also it doesn't have to be one or the other. There's a place for shows of a lighter nature and a place for shows of a heavy nature. As well as other type of shows as well.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I don't want to get into a political debate, and as a Canadian, I have no love for America's healthcare system, but hospitals are "required by law to assess and stabilize anybody who walks through the emergency-room door". And doctors don't involve themselves with anything other than treating patients.

True. ERs can not turn away a patient. But we're talking about a dead body now. There is no stabilization but a disposition. And while doctor's don't "worry" too much about bills, there is a billing dept that takes care of that stuff.

Originally Posted by kj1980

Unlike America, Japan (and pretty much every other first world nation except the US) has universal social healthcare. Who pays the medical staffs' bills? The Japanese taxpayers. We don't have doctors or nurses asking "whose your insurance company, do you have insurance, etc. etc." when you're screaming in pain, or have to fork over USD $500+ just for an ambulance ride. We also do not dump mentally ill patients in a shanty town because he/she cannot pay their bills, nor do we leave patients neglected on the floor for hours until she's dead, nor do we have inept emergency operators who won't do anything because of lack of common sense.

911 can not transfer a patient from another hospital. Hospital to hospital transfers are arranged by MDs. Those callers should have found a nurse or doctor instead and drag them to that woman. That was a wasted call.

Those were a few bad apples there. It's not like all hospitals are like that. VA Hosp should know better. Tax payers pay those bills so they should have no worries.

[MeoTwister5]

BSS subs have been out a while.

[Gameboiye]

Just finished watchign episode 11. OMFG that was good, really good, freakin' a good episode.

After episode 10 I really wanted to hate the show. Why did they have to go that way? Why can't a show just have a happy ending?

But after watching episode 11, I don't think I've ever watched anything more touching. Sure I've see and had tears for the occasional scene here and there for other animes and even this one, but honest to god I had tears rolling down my face for the entire episode, and even now after it's finished, I just can't believe how good it was. They really knew how to pull it off, and while in a ways I wish it was just a happy ending and everyone made it, I really respect how they did the series. This has turned out to be one of my favorite series of all time.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Ep11. When I find tears coursing down my cheeks, I know that a show has succeeded.

Heh, you stole the words right out of my mouth.

That truly was a heartbreaking last episode, though it was one that had to be done. I cried a number of times while watching this, from sad to happy tears, and not once do i regret spending time on this series. Sure it wasn't anything ground breaking, though i enjoyed the time i spent with this series, and would like to do business with it again in the future.

Must say that Ko Otani did an outstanding job with the score for this series, especially in this last episode. Each piece captured the right amount of emotion, and assigned them to that scene. The soundtrack is a must buy in my opinion.

Now excuse me while i go wash my face.

[WhateverHime]

Episode 11 of TM was for sure the most moving thing I've seen in a long, long time. I used to think too that the ghost/delusion thingy was a bit over the top, but damn, this last episode WAS so good that I don't care anymore. I don't normally cry at anime or movies, no matter how sad they are, but this one time I really cried my eyes out. It was frightening to think that such a tragedy could strike any of us, at any time.
Also, it was a nice touch the way that Yuuki turned out to be the one taking his sister home. Too bad humans generally value what they have only after they lose it.