[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[rogerpepitone]

Kitsu, how do you solve Banquet & Alliance with Kanon & Jessica as murderers?

In Turn, how do you explain Natsuhi's room?
In Banquet, Kanon is confirmed dead after the first twilight, and Jessica is confirmed as not a murderer.
In Alliance, Kanon is confirmed the ninth victim, and Jessica's death does not appear to be suicide.

[Kitsu]

Jessica's death does not appear to be suicide.

Appear, appear...tz nonsense. This is a piece of cake. She called Battler and then shot herself in the head with a winchester, because of the repulsion the weapon flung out her head and landed under her bed for example. Easy as cake.

I

n Turn, how do you explain Natsuhi's room?

Natsuhi's room, heh, that's the diffcult thing but think about it. in that shown "illusion" Gohda tried to lock the door several times but it didn't work at all. Maybe the lock was broken. But if that's not satiesfying here goes the real reasoning

Look at george's wound, just look at it. A wound inside the stomach. Dying from that will take a while.
Let's say Kanon or jessica killed the other two and then stabbed George....what if after both left the room the half dead George locked himself in panik?


In Banquet, Kanon is confirmed dead after the first twilight, and Jessica is confirmed as not a murderer.
Didn't you forgot the third game is not a normal Game! Most of the third games murder were commited all by different people. To be exact the adults who fought and suspected each other.
Here it goes Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
DOes not mean she didn't killed someone in accident. Maybe it went like this
Kanon killed the four other sacrifices of the first twilight and after that Jessica killed Kanon in accident or Kanon simply kiled himself (you remember he was found inside the chapel while the others were all found inside the mansion), or maybe the thing we are all thinking about...
Kanon is dead
Who exactly is Kanon, Kanon is a pseudonym for his life as furniture as soon he gives his life as furniture he killed "Kanon" but this is a stretch. Btw why aren'T you asking about that kanon was killed in this room


But I dont think this is the actual answer for all those games and the culprit is someoneelse. But "solving" this is not that difficult, except that we won't know the "real truth" till the next few arcs.

Oh and by the way..did you take notice...Natsuhi's door had red finger prints on them in Ep 2 as well. No one asked about that

[Saerianne]

Originally Posted by ghost_zero5

Is there a reason why most of them are female?

I'm not sure either, though if more characters are going to be introduced, then I'm sure they'd bring some males in.

[Lady_Bernkastel]

Originally Posted by Enerccio

I dislike this kind of reasoning

Lade bern: Whut, what father???

Maria's father =O he didn't appear yet, so he's very mysterious, and I thought Ryu-kun might be waiting for the right moment [I mean, the game is really asking for him to appear and fill in the blank spot between Maria and Rosa in the family tree lol]

btw, nice theory there Kitsu XDDD that evil Jessica~ ;p
lol

[Kitsu]

I dislike those Jessica theories...because it's way to obvious...everything is pointing to Kanon and Jessica....everything. It makes me sick. It's just something that I just wanted to say....finding a culprit isn't that difficult but finding the real one is impossible because we don't have something to confirm things

[ghost_zero5]

@Kitsu: Actually for Battler to win, we don't even need to find out the culprit but just that humans could have done those crimes too
I actually like Jessica as character, also Shanon and Kanon, so I would hate them being the culprits but it is not that I couldn't accept it.

Btw.: Actually nearly everyone could be the culprit. It could even be Battler or should I say that it could be even more him because he is the one who plays against Beatrice and always survives till the end. I think it would have been quite interesting if he had died at least once beforehand like e.g. in the first twilight
Especially, the other Battler's reaction and in Ep4 also Ange's reaction would be interesting to watch
I wonder if Ange would still have been so composed then.

[Lady_Bernkastel]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

I dislike those Jessica theories...because it's way to obvious...everything is pointing to Kanon and Jessica....everything. It makes me sick. It's just something that I just wanted to say....finding a culprit isn't that difficult but finding the real one is impossible because we don't have something to confirm things

lol.
I think that even Ryuu kun hasn't solved this mystery yet
XDDD that tricky man T_T it is hard, but it's much more interesting and fun like this than if it was easy.
^^

I still think that twisted Maria has something to do with all of this...I guess her death really wasn't confirmed? It's possible she was alive there guys. Ryu was trying to say something when he talked so much about how she was different from the other corpses.

[sento]

I already said that it's obvious that Battler and Maria are exceptions to the culprit. They only didn't reach the Golden Land in EP3, and EP3 lacks Rule Y.

And this person probably is the same person who writes the bottles, entries at Maria's diary and is part of Mariage Sorciere.

The problem is... who is this person who poses as "Beatrice"? Who knows... but I think EP4 have a lot of hints about this.

[Kitsu]

t could even be Battler or should I say that it it could be even more that way because he is the one who plays against Beatrice and always survives till the end. I think it would have been quite interesting if he had died at least once beforehand like e.g. in the first twilight

Do you kow why he always survives till the end? Because the woman who survive till the (Natsuhi, Rosa, Eva) trusts him. Also he stays at those safe places till the end. The others leave at somepoint and then die.
AlsoBattler being the culprit would suck so badly since his narration would be a totally lie means that we could directly skip the episode and just look at the ending scrolls since the episodes itself were alost just a lie.

I still think that twisted Maria has something to do with all of this...I guess her death really wasn't confirmed? It's possible she was alive there guys. Ryu was trying to say something when he talked so much about how she was different from the other corpses.

Think about it, it was said "beatrice" often played with Maria and play pranks with her when maria came to Rokkenjima, that Jessica actually was always kind to her. (not talking about her rage attacks in which she started to attack maria) We also now that Kanon pitied Maria and dispised Rosa. COme on put the parts together.

If you want this to be truth this is entirly possible

I already said that it's obvious that Battler and Maria are exceptions to the culprit.

Not necessarily exceptions but maybe liked by the culprit. The same goes for George who actually survives till the rather later twilights in the games (except for the forth game which was a totally messed up game anyway)

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Who exactly is Kanon, Kanon is a pseudonym for his life as furniture as soon he gives his life as furniture he killed "Kanon" but this is a stretch. Btw why aren'T you asking about that kanon was killed in this room

That's actually interesting. The red "They definitely would not mistake any other person for Kanon" doesn't preclude "mistaking the same person for Kanon" even if he's no longer Kanon. If he discarded his furniture name to "become human" then he would be known by his real name instead, and you might say that Kanon (the furniture) is dead.

[ghost_zero5]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Do you kow why he always survives till the end? Because the woman who survive till the (Natsuhi, Rosa, Eva) trusts him. Also he stays at those safe places till the end. The others leave at somepoint and then die.
AlsoBattler being the culprit would suck so badly since his narration would be a totally lie means that we could directly skip the episode and just look at the ending scrolls since the episodes itself were alost just a lie.

I just mention it as a extremely low possibility.
Actually, I don't believe it myself and don't want this to be the case but at least he might have some "strange relation" to this incident like Beato seemed to say in Ep4.
However, she could just have lied there and it wouldn't be to unlikely for her to lie and even if not this won't make him the murderer

[Kitsu]

That's actually interesting. The red "They definitely would not mistake any other person for Kanon" doesn't preclude "mistaking the same person for Kanon" even if he's no longer Kanon. If he discarded his furniture name to "become human" then he would be known by his real name instead, and you might say that Kanon (the furniture) is dead.

I know, but to be honest I don#t like that theory that much.

Another possible way for that Episode is
Kanon was killed in this room, but this doesn't means that Kanon actually died in that room. For example
Me and Person X have a fight in room y
I stab person X
Person X flees from Room Y
And then dies from his wound somewehere else
I could easily say I killed person X in room Y
Wounded Kanon goes off to the kitchen back door and gets treated by Nanjo there. Soon really appeared in front of them

[Nih]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

I know, but to be honest I don#t like that theory that much.

Another possible way for that Episode is
Kanon was killed in this room, but this doesn't means that Kanon actually died in that room. For example
Me and Person X have a fight in room y
I stab person X
Person X flees from Room Y
And then dies from his wound somewehere else
I could easily say I killed person X in room Y
Wounded Kanon goes off to the kitchen back door and gets treated by Nanjo there. Soon really appeared in front of them

I think that Beato wanted to specify two things: Kanon was killed by another person and his death occured in Jessica's room. I could accept that "Kanon" may be killed metaphorically as a title, but if he ended up dying as a human somewhere else, then it's just too much of a stretch to say "killed" instead of "attacked" when referring to him. We need to keep in mind that Battler was interested in a death confirmation of a human and Beato twisting the red truth like this would be lame, imo.

[TsundereCake]

Is it just me, or did Ryukishi07 squeeze in a Higurashi SFX right around:

Spoiler for here - last chapter of Ep.4:

It's not that important, but I just noticed it

[Nifty]

Originally Posted by Nih

Beato twisting the red truth like this would be lame, imo.

Lame? Yes.
But you can't say she wouldn't do it. After that stunt she pulled in EP3, it would actually be quite in-character. Technically she'd still be telling the truth, but she'd be doing it using word play to gain an advantage and avoid spilling out too much information that could be used against her.

[Kitsu]

And to add to Nifty's answer
Saying that "Kanon" died in that furniture sense I explained would be twisting the red trtuh as well

[Nih]

To reiterate then, I'm expecting that Beato might be twisting the red in some way
to gain an advantage, but I would be disappointed if she did it so much so that the red is rendered useless completely. I think saying that a person is killed in room X when they don't actually die there would be one such example.

[yukito]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

I dislike those Jessica theories...because it's way to obvious...everything is pointing to Kanon and Jessica....everything. It makes me sick. It's just something that I just wanted to say....finding a culprit isn't that difficult but finding the real one is impossible because we don't have something to confirm things

I do think that the current Beatrice is probably Jessica, but I don't think she can be the murderer: Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder (in EP3)

[Kitsu]

I do think that the current Beatrice is probably Jessica, but I don't think she can be the murderer: Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder (in EP3)

Looking one page back i already said something about it and...did you guys forget. Beatrice never kills only her precious furniture does *cackle*
Oh and just because that was stated in one Episode doesn't mean it goes for all episodes

[Enerccio]

Originally Posted by Lady_Bernkastel

Maria's father =O he didn't appear yet, so he's very mysterious, and I thought Ryu-kun might be waiting for the right moment [I mean, the game is really asking for him to appear and fill in the blank spot between Maria and Rosa in the family tree lol]

btw, nice theory there Kitsu XDDD that evil Jessica~ ;p
lol

There are no more than 17 people on the island so unless he is gohda, genji, grandfather, kanon, rudolf or krauss... then it's not possible

Kitsu: I think the same with Kanon being kill as you. He died eventually though, otherwise he wouldnt be killed, but before he could kill Nanjo and Kumasawa