[Manga] Naruto Chapter 597 Discussion Thread

[mystogan]

i thought Kakashi was using Kamui with the other's attacks, and strike at the right time tobi solidifies, but the truth was quite shocking,also the truth tobi revealed his eye's origin turns a lot of things now,
it really hurt hard when tobi says that "...so that, heroes no longer have to make excuses infront of graves"
now tobi is vulnerable and can be defeated, but it will be very hard for kakashi to build up enough chakra to constantly use Kamui,..but still we haven't seen if tobi could do anything else, he has been using only one jutsu all this time, he might have some other things up his sleeve

[MeroBAKA]

Amazing double color page.
Difficult not to speak about the "who is Tobi?" question with such a chapter.
Now the question has become "Does Tobi have only Obito's eye or does he have other parts of Obito's body as well?"
I still stick to what I exposed previously
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...30#post4036330 and I think he only collected the remaining eye.
Tobi=Obito is tempting as well, but since I believe more Tobi is another soul in Madara's body, I remain with the first option.

Kudos to Tobi to have been able to be so good at fighting with that one jutsu acquired late. He is very clever when it comes to fighting and he comes up with very good tactics. Facing the Kages he gave the impression to be invicible. He beat Danzo's underlings very easily, etc.
May turn out wrong easily, but I bet one of the tricks is that the sharingan eye stays in the real world when he unphases other parts of his body. Naruto should aim at his sharingan eye specifically.
Without Obito's eye technique I wonder how Tobi got Obito's body at Kannabi bridge.

Knowing Kakashi's behavior in front of the grave made him like an insider in Konoha's village. It did not cause so much headache when we learned he even knew Aburame clan's secret techniques, which should be more difficult to know than Kakashi goes visiting the graveyard often. In my opinion this interrogation is not related to Tobi's origin, but what he was doing between the Kannabi bridge and the Uchiha massacre. Was he a villager in Konoha to spy Uzumaki's pregnancy? etc.
I don't have a proper opinion about the fact he was hidden as a villager or not. Knowing how he passed the security barriers I could easily imagine him to be able to collect information without the need to be a villager, but if he is someone from the village, that could join the storyline of the guy Sasuke wants to meet.

I bet we will have a flashback to explain Rin's death that should have happened before the Kyuubi's attack, since Tobi had already his space/time ninjutsu. Certainly Tobi caused her death.
A panel intrigued me: Kakashi was standing in front of a grave, since it was not the monument, I can only guess it is Rin's tomb.

[yakumo-chan]

Originally Posted by Black0raz0r

well...... we all know...... Tobi is the new Sith Lord

Spoiler for Sith Lord Tobi:

I have a theory why Obito became a Bad Person,

Madara Saved Obito using Zetsu,
Then Obito became Madara's Student.
Madara Teaches everything to Obito, and his plan about the Infinite Tsukoyomi
then Obito Killed Madara, and somehow gained his powers,
which is why he said " The Ultimate power of the Sharingan will be Mine! Uchiha Madara's Power!"

so...

Madara = Sith Lord
Obito = Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker

[Black0raz0r]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I have a theory why Obito became a Bad Person,

Madara Saved Obito using Zetsu,
Then Obito became Madara's Student.
Madara Teaches everything to Obito, and his plan about the Infinite Tsukoyomi
then Obito Killed Madara, and somehow gained his powers,
which is why he said " The Ultimate power of the Sharingan will be Mine! Uchiha Madara's Power!"

so...

Madara = Sith Lord
Obito = Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker

yeah
thats one thing of my theory

[Nintendo]

my view is that he somehow saved the eye and liked it the most to implant it and use it.

he has many eyes and wanted danzos eye to add to his collection. I say not to just store it, but to also use it for himself. that way he can really manipulate the battlefield if he can just teleport to people and tell them to do something without them even knowing about it.

is he obito? nah, but is he using his eye? sure it would make more sense I assume then to just straight out say obito lived and now wants revenge because his friends left him to die? he told them to leave.

[ntherblast]

Originally Posted by Hasumi

All this talk of being 'hollow', Tobi must be an Espada.

Hollow has more than one meaning you know in this case he meant empty

Originally Posted by Dengar

Ok, so it's space-time jutsu that uses the same dimension. Tobi just admitted where he got the eye from.

If this isn't confirmation that he's NOT Obito, then I don't know what is.

Wait so just because we now know he has obitos eye means that the person using the eye has to be obito?

Originally Posted by Black0raz0r

if he is really Madara using Obitos Zestumass body then the picture I found some time ago might be true...

Spoiler for Spoiler ahead:

Spoiler for another spoiler:

Obvious photoshop/fanart

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I still dont understand the Konan vs Tobi fight though...
I still think TObi is Madara for some reason(Because of Konan vs Tobi fight),,,

But if he is Madara, Kurama should have sensed it......
Who the F*** is Tobi????

this can be explained by kurama not sensing minato or kushina inside of naruto. it's such a minute amount of chakra that it apparently can't be sensed.

I've believed tobi to be part obito/part zetsu with madara's mind in control for a while, but he may have switched bodies recently or something along those lines. i still find it weird that his right arm didn't fall apart into zetsu goo when he got hit with naruto's rasengan. it looks like a normal human arm now. i dont really get it quite frankly, but maybe I'm reading too much into it

[Hunter]

So Tobi's jutsu worked exactly as Sakura said it did 200 chapters ago. Well that's not something you see everyday.

[yakumo-chan]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

this can be explained by kurama not sensing minato or kushina inside of naruto. it's such a minute amount of chakra that it apparently can't be sensed.

what do you mean not sensed? Kurama have always known that Minato and Kushina is inside of Naruto

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by XxSleepyxX

Tobi is proficient enough with his Sharingan that people actually believed he was Madara. I mean even Itachi believed him didn't he expect he mentioned that he wasn't as strong as during his prime? Tobi has accumulated knowledge of ninja history. Meaning he must be pretty old. Hes met with Madara before Madara died. Tobi is probably missing the other half of his body since he can "grow" back parts of his body. Its possible that he extracted obito's eye like he extracted the rinnegan from nagato. Plus tobi had two pairs of sharigan while obito gave one away to kakashi. The only problem we end up is why does he know about what kakashi said. And why would he be using Obito's eye if he isn't Obito? Whats so special about Obito?

Tobi does NOT have to be old. we just saw itachi share with sasuke the events the night of the massacre and his talk with shisui thru genjutsu. we are talking about the sharingan here…if he met madara before he died, is it not possible that tobi gained his knowledge through a genjutsu playback??? as for whats special about obito…his pair of eyes are 1 of 6 in the manga capable of activating the mangekyo…plus he wasn't really talentless, he was actually pretty proficient with katon, and a chunin if I'm not mistaking. he was on team minato for a reason IMO...

Originally Posted by oppaiSam@

That would be a wtf moment bro ^^ @ XxSleepyXx, maybe obito's eye is special like Shisui's eye and it's just obito didn't developed or because he died quickly that's why he didn't unleashed the full power of his sharingan. But who knows, there are still many mysteries about this Tobi.

i so want these two to be brothers…not cuz it makes sense but because i just want it to be so

Originally Posted by Dengar

Ok, so it's space-time jutsu that uses the same dimension. Tobi just admitted where he got the eye from.

If this isn't confirmation that he's NOT Obito, then I don't know what is.

not necessarily. this guy wants to be no one. IF he is obito (body/part mind) he was thought to have died at that place and will continue to behave as such...OR he could be just brainwashed. either its unconfirmed until the mask comes off. also, tobis talk of no more heroes intrigues me because that was the primary discussion between obito and kakashi during that mission. u know when they talked about kakashis dad, and whether or not to save Rin. at that time he mentioned crushing the idea of the shinobi.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

also, tobis talk of no more heroes intrigues me because that was the primary discussion between obito and kakashi during that mission. u know when they talked about kakashis dad, and whether or not to save Rin. at that time he mentioned crushing the idea of the shinobi.

i would love to know which voice tobi is speaking with right now... assuming the 2 voices will play a role in his multiple identities it would make sense for this to be the playful voice only speaking more seriously of course. just a thought, I'm not vesting too much in the voices, but I have thought that the playful one was obito and the serious one was madara. the only thing that's certain about tobi's voices is that madara is not both since his character is not playful at all. perhaps izuna was playful and madara used to call him a 'good boy' or something... but there's no evidence of that from their backstory so far

it also makes sense that tobi's identity is being revealed before the anime gets to madara's voice since whether or not edo-madara's voice is the same as serious tobi would give tobi's identity away as well, or at least eliminate madara from the discussion.

edit:

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

what do you mean not sensed? Kurama have always known that Minato and Kushina is inside of Naruto

I don't think that is correct. before minato and kushina appeared inside naruto's mental plane in the seal, there was no mention of them being there by anyone

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I have a theory why Obito became a Bad Person,

You need motivation. What changed Obito? From Tobi's words - if we assume he is Obito - we can come up with at least two reasons: Kakashi failed to save Obito's love interest Rin; and after he died in a mission for a village the village has destroyed his clan.
But both of these can't stand against the story so far, so Tobi being Obito has like 0.01% chance.

[carcanclaw]

Didn't Kisame confirm that Tobi's current identity was the same as that of the previous 'true' Mizukage, who he believed was Madara?

This would confirm a few things:
A. Tobi isn't just using someone else's body.
B. If Kisame knew what Madara looked like, then Tobi looks like Madara, which adds credence to the Izuna theory.
C. That Tobi's appearance hasn't significantly changed in over a decade, meaning he can't be Obito or anyone else who would have been a child at the time he met Kisame.

[Lunarskylar]

Originally Posted by Hunter

So Tobi's jutsu worked exactly as Sakura said it did 200 chapters ago. Well that's not something you see everyday.

THANKKKK YOU HUNTER
i just came here to say the exact same thing. That's what actually angered me most about this chapter, it felt completely like filler explaining information that we had been given almost 4 years (but I guess kishimoto forgot that)
it's almost like kishi retconned his powers from what he explained 4 years ago, only to retcon it back it this chapter

so..... is kamui an MS techie? or a natural sharingan technique related to obito's eye that Kakashi can only use through MS mode because of his none uchiha origin?
or is it most likely that kamui is the technique of the left eye kakashi has, and the transferring between dimensions is the technique is the other eye. As someone mentioned before kakashi has the long range technique while tobi has the close range

i'm expecting tobi to sudden pull a lelouch and take off sharingan standard contact lens revealing that he's had the MS kakashi style activated the entire time,

but considering that now it looks like the name tobi was a hint to the fact that he had obito's eye, then kishimoto's had this planned from the start, but then the one thing i'm not understanding is why tobi can apparently only let things pass through him for 5 minutes according to the fight with konan which forced him to use izanagi. Where did that rule come from and why would it exist anyway?

[Nintendo]

what chapter did sakura explain the tech? Im curious to go back and re-read the chapter.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

but then the one thing i'm not understanding is why tobi can apparently only let things pass through him for 5 minutes according to the fight with konan which forced him to use izanagi. Where did that rule come from and why would it exist anyway?

Every jutsu has a limit, otherwise you could spam it forever and win your fights with brute force, that wouldn't be very ninja-like. Kakashi in MS mode can do his kamui a few times, but Tobi seems to be beyond Uchiha level. He doesn't need MS mode, and he can do it several times without any problems. I guess it's because his body is made from the 1st hokage's cells, similarily to Danzou's, so he is some artificially created crappier version of the sage of 6 paths.

[Richocet]

Was it just me or did that cover page look like the Bleach one showing Ichigo's progress

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it also makes sense that tobi's identity is being revealed before the anime gets to madara's voice since whether or not edo-madara's voice is the same as serious tobi would give tobi's identity away as well, or at least eliminate madara from the discussion.

The anime has no bearing on the manga, if Edo-Madara had already made his appearance and it turned out that Tobi was someone else they would just change his voice a 3rd time once Tobi revealed his true persona.

Anyhow Tobi can't be Madara or part of Madara -playful of serious. They are nothing alike in personality, power, figthing style, appearance and knowledge. No, the sad truth is that it's increasingly probable that Tobi is Obito.
Not Obito's eye or Obito's body or his captured soul or whatever. Just Obito, period.
Hell his laughable rant about heros and Kakashi even explains his reaction when he told Sasuke about Izuna's ultimately useless sacrifice. He gave his eye to his brother in arm so he could save the girl he was infatuated with but she ended up dead anyway so woe is me. Let's fuck the world so everybody can dream happily ever after.

God this is boring.

[kk2extreme]

May be Orochimaru saved Obito from death?

[Artimus_Prime]

There is a chance he activated the space -time ninjutsu, phased out and crawled from beneath the rubble. maybe not likely but possible...