VFR for Fansub Encoders - how, why, WTF?

[Yazakura]

Is it easier to do if anime is a raw video clip?

[Nicholi]

Most of the actual "animation" in an episode is 12fps, 11.988 to be slightly more precise. The only things which are usually 24fps (23.976fps) are the pans and maybe a few other bits of animation. This would of course be assuming no CG/30fps stuff at all. But usually the same goes for those shows as well, the majority of all of it is in fact 12fps. Pretty sickening eh

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Nicholi

Most of the actual "animation" in an episode is 12fps, 11.988 to be slightly more precise. The only things which are usually 24fps (23.976fps) are the pans and maybe a few other bits of animation. This would of course be assuming no CG/30fps stuff at all. But usually the same goes for those shows as well, the majority of all of it is in fact 12fps. Pretty sickening eh

Naw... that would sound pretty sweet if I were one of the animators. "Woohoo, 50% less work!"

[Sylf]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Naw... that would sound pretty sweet if I were one of the animators. "Woohoo, 50% less work!"

Really? I thought they were asking the outsourcing company to work in half of the framerate, so they only have to pay half of the commission.

[LytHka]

Ahh, yes, the poor bastards of the sakuga key animation... And we get to watch their hard work, brought to us with a lot of blood and sweat spilt, for free, while they have to eat moldy bread on their low salary of 170 Yen/frame.

Yes, the pay is usually on per-frame basis; so, it's work more, get more dough; but who cares about them..

[Starks]

Originally Posted by LytHka

Ahh, yes, the poor bastards of the sakuga key animation... And we get to watch their hard work, brought to us with a lot of blood and sweat spilt, for free, while they have to eat moldy bread on their low salary of 170 Yen/frame.

Yes, the pay is usually on per-frame basis; so, it's work more, get more dough; but who cares about them..

Wow, I never thought of it that way...

Thanks for enlightening me.

[DryFire]

But is it per unique frame? or just per frame?

I highly doubt fan subbing is goign to be killing the anime industry in japan anytime soon.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by DryFire

But is it per unique frame? or just per frame?

For key animators, it'd be every key animation frame. For in-betweeners, it'd be every unique in-between frame (where they actually have to draw something). Basically, it's by drawing. The compositing and all that happens later. In other words, a lower animation framerate means paying less to fill more time.

[ffdshow]

Many thanks for the VFR info, the first encoding test was done correctly. It's in mkv format.

I have a question, is 119.88fps avi acceptable in the fansubbing world?

[Sylf]

I guess, as long as it's not the true 119.88fps.

(But... if you're willing to go through the trouble of creating 119.88fps material, why not just create the VFR stuff?)

[ffdshow]

Yes, it's the same amount of work (the additional 5-30 minutes of troubles, against cfr).

Sometimes people may ask you to encode avi, so...

[TheFluff]

Well, 120 fps AVI's are kinda like h.264 AVI's... it works on a normal Windows system, but it's ugly, breaks hardware players and is generally frowned upon.

[Samatarou]

Originally Posted by Nicholi

Most of the actual "animation" in an episode is 12fps

Higher quality anime (e.g. Miyazaki) uses variable frame rates of animation.
In contrast to Western animated movies which IIRC tend to keep to 24fps throughout, Miyazaki's stuff uses the lowest animation rate it can get away with for a given shot, but does go up to 24fps when (absolutely) necessary.

If you look at the scene in Spirited Away of Chihiro somersaulting into Yubaba's presence for instance, the shots where her relative motion is small (either distant or slow moving) are only 8fps, whilst the fastest motion bits, e.g. when she's very close to the camera, are a full 24fps.

I've not really noticed anime TV series using this approach though. I have a vague recollection of seeing something that had brief moments of 24fps animation amongst the usual 12 but can't recall what it was. 30fps pans and zooms are not that uncommon though, but only where no actual frame by frame drawing was required (Kamichu! springs to mind here).

Older series don't even use 12fps though, 8 used to be the norm (which was also the Super8 home cine camera framerate I think), basically the minimum you need to give a feeling of animated movement rather than a series of still images. I think Nausicaa was 8fps throughout.
[edit: I just checked and in fact though mainly 8fps it actually varies up to 24fps too]

[Harukalover]

How do I use graphedit to transmux WMV to MKV?

I followed the guide up to when I add in Haali's Matroska Muxer. Once I add that in it asks me to open a media file? What media file am I supposed to open? Is it the original WMV? Cause that doesn't seem to do anything. I don't even get a output pin for that filter.

Thanks for any help in advance. And nice guide, it has helped me a lot with working with vfr material.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Harukalover

How do I use graphedit to transmux WMV to MKV?

I followed the guide up to when I add in Haali's Matroska Muxer. Once I add that in it asks me to open a media file? What media file am I supposed to open? Is it the original WMV? Cause that doesn't seem to do anything. I don't even get a output pin for that filter.

Thanks for any help in advance. And nice guide, it has helped me a lot with working with vfr material.

That's the _output_ file. Just choose the directory and the filename you want. There's no output pin because that filter outputs to a file.

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

That's the _output_ file. Just choose the directory and the filename you want. There's no output pin because that filter outputs to a file.

Hmm strange I did that before and it did nothing. Got it to work this time but didn't work too well...

Corrupted the original file instead. Plays for like 10 seconds then freezes and is listed as .wmv. Not .mkv.

EDIT: A few more tries are now giving me an error. Says:

The Graph could not change state.

[TheFluff]

It seems your're doing something subtly wrong. Can you describe EXACTLY what you do in GraphEdit up to the point where it breaks?

[Harukalover]

Best way to explain would probably be through pics:

First step I do is drag and drop the .wmv file.

I then get this filter set in graphedit:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8.../FileStart.jpg

I then delete the following filters:

Default Directsound Device
Video Renderer
WMVideo Decoder DMO

This leaves me with the raw video, WMAudio Decoder DMO, AC3Filter, and ffdshow Audio Decoder.

Next I insert Haali Matroska Muxer. It asks me to open a media file. I open the original video I dragged into the graph at the start.

Then I connect the Raw video pin to input 1 of Haali Matroska Muxer. Then I connect the output pin from ffdshow Audio Decoder.

Then I right click on the Haali Matroska Muxer and click on filter properties. In there I go to Options --> Output --> Segment Title. I call it under a new name.

Newfile.mkv

In this case. Then I name the first two tracks. After that I click on play and it gives me this error:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8...Grapherror.jpg

Hopefully that is a good enough explanation of what's wrong...

I did get it to work once. But it overwrote the original file and then stalled. The new file had a track time of 10 seconds. Played for first 5 and then froze. Also wasn't in an mkv container. It was still a WMV.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Harukalover

Next I insert Haali Matroska Muxer. It asks me to open a media file. I open the original video I dragged into the graph at the start.

That's the problem right there. Like I said in my previous post, it's asking for the OUTPUT file (not the input). Choose whatever filename you want but don't overwrite the original file....

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

That's the problem right there. Like I said in my previous post, it's asking for the OUTPUT file (not the input). Choose whatever filename you want but don't overwrite the original file....

Okay that really should say save instead of open... but otherwise.

I tried what you said. Then clicked play. New .mkv was made and got to around 3.03mb. And is sitting now. The graph doesn't say it's adding to it. I tried playing the video and it is just 10 seconds of nothing.

Am I doing something stupid or what?

EDIT: Also I'm wondering whether something's wrong with my graphedit. For some reason when I add this file it gives me a different chain of filters for audio every now and then. Either it gives me all 3 that were in that previous pic. Or it instead gives me just the AC3 filter and the ffdshow Audio decoder. Is something wrong with it doing that?