Water 7 Arc discussion (Anime Only)

[Tommy]

Ha it looks like OP meets Kenshin.

[Sir_Crocodile]

I saw a preview and saw PandaMan
Yes You heared right PandaMan
He will be shown when Usopp runs to Luffy informining him something about the Buggy Clan.HE will be shown eating in the restaurant...

Better now...

[Chuixupu]

Yeah, there's pictures of Pandaman in the screencaps.

Uyssop? I think there's a "I can't spell Usopp's name right" disease going around all the One Piece forums.

[Mattis]

Am I the only one who actually dislikes the water 7 arc?
Don't get me wrong I do think we need the information
given to us in this arc. But I just want it to end. All the other
arcs has at some point released alot of emotion in me and
given me "the chills". But not this one, I'm actually getting bored.

[MihawkXGP]

Once it gets to Enies Lobby- you should gett all the excitment and emotions you could possibly need.

I'm starting to Like Tom. He's weird saying ' do it with a DON'...He's a Likable guy.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Mattis

Am I the only one who actually dislikes the water 7 arc?
Don't get me wrong I do think we need the information
given to us in this arc. But I just want it to end. All the other
arcs has at some point released alot of emotion in me and
given me "the chills". But not this one, I'm actually getting bored.

I can see where you are going with this after such a HUGE start of the arc surrounding Usopp, Luffy, and Going Merry. I suppose the sense of drama has subdued a bit but the arc isn't over yet. Or is it? Enies Lobby is part of Water 7, isn't it? Beside there is plenty of back story/flashback left to tell for Robin. We surely can expect some drama and the venting of emotions from there. Also the lack of release from the last couple of months might have contributed to the sluggish development of the story. Episodes like 252 doesn't help the arc either.

[Mattis]

Originally Posted by monir

I can see where you are going with this after such a HUGE start of the arc surrounding Usopp, Luffy, and Going Merry. I suppose the sense of drama has subdued a bit but the arc isn't over yet. Or is it? Enies Lobby is part of Water 7, isn't it? Beside there is plenty of back story/flashback left to tell for Robin. We surely can expect some drama and the venting of emotions from there. Also the lack of release from the last couple of months might have contributed to the sluggish development of the story. Episodes like 252 doesn't help the arc either.

Yeah I know, I just hope they don't take to long to shape things up. I had the same problem with Skypeia. By the way, isn't about time for some character development? Sorry for the spelling =/.

[Chuixupu]

Well, I'm dumbfounded. For me, Water 7 has been the most interesting and emotional story arc so far, and also has some of the most character development. It's like Arlong Park X10. I really don't know what you're looking for. What arcs did you like best? If you think episodes are being drawn out, maybe you'd like the manga better. I think the anime has been better about the way they drag out the episodes than they did with Skypiea. I haven't been very fond of Skypiea in the anime.

[Mattis]

Yeah there is alot of emotion going around in the current arc, the thing is that it doesn't release any emotion in me. This could have someting to with the lack of release as monir mentioned. Just this morning I found out that 249-252 has ben subbed by a diffirent group then the one I'm following, currently at 248. So I've got to check those out before I make any more comments about this arc, sorry if I've been rash. When looking at Skypiea I had the luck of having all the episodes of that arc. I'll get back to you about the arcs I like, gotta check up some names first.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Chuixupu

Well, I'm dumbfounded. For me, Water 7 has been the most interesting and emotional story arc so far, and also has some of the most character development. It's like Arlong Park X10.

That's a blasphemy to my ear. I had to endure the first 18 episodes before I could get into One Piece. Then the Arlong Park arc made One Piece a likable series for me. There are very few series that evoked similiar emotional response for me as Arlong Park arc. The acting was top notch. The pacing was perfect. Nami was superb. Luffy was superb. Zoro, Sanji, Usopp, Arlong, Nami's surrogate mother, Nami's sister, the Guy with the spinning paper fan on his hat, and everyone else was superb. This entire arc with so much powerful emotion locked in was captured only in 14 episodes. Compare to it the Arabasta Arc is consist of 39 episodes, Skypiea Arc consists of 44 episodes, and it seems the Water 7 arc is going to be even a longer running arc. Do you see a pattern emerging?

Water 7 arc started with a bang with Usopp/Luffy reaction on the subject of Merry Going. Then things have cooled down a lot for the next 20+ episodes or so. Now it looks like the story is about to pick up with the separation of Robin from Luffy-gang who is onward to Enies Lobby. You see, my point is, Water 7 arc is following the same pattern as the two huge arc mentioned. They all seem stretched out. That wasn't the case for Arlong Park, yet it was able to leave a lasting impression on me. And I suspect those who gave One Piece a chance and later became a fan of the show, is because of Arlong Park arc. I doubt any other arc will leave the similar impression, given, we have yet to reach a climax to Water 7 arc.

Wrote a bit more than I orginally intended, but that's how I feel anytime Arlong Park is compared to any other arc.

[Chuixupu]

Well, sorry if that sounds like blasphemy to you, but it's my opinion. Arlong Park was also the story arc that totally made me love One Piece, and it remained my favorite until I got to Water 7, and that surpassed my love for AP. I think part of the problem, like I said, is with the anime adaption. The anime version of Arlong Park has no filler and no expansion, probably because the animators at that time were so far behind that they didn't worry about doing such things.

Of course it IS longer, but I don't care about length, but the content of the story, and really, it's all one big story anyway, arcs are sections marked off by fans to help us keep track of different parts of the story better. There's still a long way to go before One Piece ends, and I don't see what difference it makes in how long each story arc is when it won't matter in the end. If we were reading a finished novel, this probably wouldn't even be brought up.
The current part of the story is setting itself to what is likely to be a huge turning point in the life of the crew, but internally and externally. This is where they're allegances are tested, and that's important because they're about to get themselves into deeper sh*t than ever before.

[wingdarkness]

Arlong Park was great...and it sealed the deal for me too...It set the tone that OP is a series that deals with extremely cruel aspects..Like what Arlong did to Nami and Bellemere...I mean OP really has villians worthy of hating...Not many "middle-of-the-road" type main villians (mostly final bosses)...I pretty much hate them all ...But I do agree with Mattis (perhaps this is because it takes so long for me to get new OP eps and I might be getting impatient)...

The Water 7 arc has hit a roadbump IMO...The Iceberg--Franky backstory consumed too much IMO...that could have been told in 1 or 2 episodes I think it took 4...When it was revealed that CP9 were the galley-ha and Lucci winds up being this menacing, really almost mortifying team leader it got really intense and you didn't know what to expect next...Robin holding Iceberg at gunpoint and then Luffy saving that other guy (Ya see I don't even remember his name it's been so long since the story focused on him)...Everything was coming to a boil...but now it seems to be dragging...Luffy stuck in an alleyway (For the second time!), Zolo just somehow trapped in a chimmney...Chopper screaming for them for an ENTIRE EPISODE...Ussop has just been so annoying IMO...I actual felt for him at first and loved his courage vs. luffy, but now I want Merry to be put to rest already if only to end that subplot...I just think it has lost some of the great momentum it had...I don't even know what WATER 7 is about anymore...It looks like it's gonna turn into the Ennis lobby arc or the Sanji on the train arc...I'm still excited, but I'd like to see this arc speed up...It's not like i only want fighting, but OP is a shonen and i'd like to see a bit more (the Escape from that Govt. fort arc and now Water 7 seems to have much less action than the previous 2 arcs)...

As for the Skypeia arc...It was very indepth and challenging...Especially for us who had to watch the specially-worded eps and figure out stuff on our own without the benefit of totally understanding everything...The final fight wasn't the best (Although still really good)...I think the journey was great...meeting the sky-indians and the fights in the woods...Also the comedy level was very high (I'll never forget Chopper being scared outta his mind a couple of times and Ussop's facial expressions when they were falling down those cloud waterfalls)...Robin figuring out some key elements of the world-history and Gol D. Roger showing he had been there...The mystery of how Skypiea became Skypiea...The shells that can do all kinds of things...

Not to mention Bellamy and the Dom flamigeaux (sp?) pirates and the other pirates of that criminal island...Certain scenes were just so good and showed the intensity of that environment (Remember when Luffy and Zolo just let the pirates beat them and Luffy cracking Bellamy's head with that serious punch)Those guys went to a mythical Sky Island and saved it from total destruction and learned so much that many pirates will never even see...You can't even get to the next island if you don't go there...Man I almost forgot how good it was...Skypiea was a great arc...I can only imagine how good it is with good subs...

[Chuixupu]

You-Know-Who is halfway through Skypiea now, so you can watch it with good subs. Personally, Skypiea was one of my least favorite arcs since the really early ones. And I like it even less in the anime than I did in the manga (it would have been nice if the animation was bette too). I think I felt similar to what you're saying with the Norland Flashback and hitting a roadbump. I just wanted Skypiea to end at that point.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Chuixupu

Of course it IS longer, but I don't care about length, but the content of the story, and really, it's all one big story anyway, arcs are sections marked off by fans to help us keep track of different parts of the story better. There's still a long way to go before One Piece ends, and I don't see what difference it makes in how long each story arc is when it won't matter in the end. If we were reading a finished novel, this probably wouldn't even be brought up.

As I see it, the length of an arc matters in story telling. Longer the arc, lesser the focus on the main subject of that part of the story telling and vice versa. One Piece's arc is very distinct from each other with special attention paid to different character in each of it's arc. Water 7's main attraction obviously is Robin. She is the meat of this arc and yet, it's taking so long to see her under the spotlight. Even for a great beginning to this arc with Usopp/Luffy-Going-Merry, it seems that part was no more than a side story. Of course it is interesting to see how the Luffy's crew is going to cope with the inner conflict, but will the set up be relevant later in the story? We will see. Anyway, my point is that longer running arc takes away focus from the main subject of it's story. Near the end of Skypiea Arc, I wasn't even sure what is this whole arc was about, other than storing it away another Kaizoku-gang adventure.

I'm not going to comment on when or how OP is going to end and if the archaic style of storytelling is even going to be relevant in the end, but I have to say One Piece is no novel. It's a bunch of short stories put together (not exactly like Arabain Nights in Wingy's analogy but similar) where the focus lies in each of Luffy's crew in each of it's short story (like an anthology). Are they entertaining? Yes. That said, Arlong Park is still reamins the jewel of an arc for this series.

[Chuixupu]

Originally Posted by monir

As I see it, the length of an arc matters in story telling. Longer the arc, lesser the focus on the main subject of that part of the story telling and vice versa. One Piece's arc is very distinct from each other with special attention paid to different character in each of it's arc. Water 7's main attraction obviously is Robin. She is the meat of this arc and yet, it's taking so long to see her under the spotlight. Even for a great beginning to this arc with Usopp/Luffy-Going-Merry, it seems that part was no more than a side story. Of course it is interesting to see how the Luffy's crew is going to cope with the inner conflict, but will the set up be relevant later in the story? We will see. Anyway, my point is that longer running arc takes away focus from the main subject of it's story. Near the end of Skypiea Arc, I wasn't even sure what is this whole arc was about, other than storing it away another Kaizoku-gang adventure.

I think you are mistaken in assuming that the entire focus of the arc is Robin, or that an arc even *should* have one focus. I never thought of the arc that way. Volume 35 was called "Captain". If Oda wanted the focus to all be on Robin, he could have done that, but obviously he has reasons for everything that has happened. I've been astounded at how much forethought he puts into the story. There have been a lot of plot elements that I thought were insignificant, only to have them resurface later as being a key element. I just can't understand the line of thought that thinks "well, this is what *I* think the story should focus on, and if it doesn't, then it's wrong". I think Oda knows what he's doing. I have yet to be disappointed (except for when Pell survived).
Robin does get her due later on, though.

I'm not going to comment on when or how OP is going to end and if the archaic style of storytelling is even going to be relevant in the end, but I have to say One Piece is no novel. It's a bunch of short stories put together (not exactly like Arabain Nights in Wingy's analogy but similar) where the focus lies in each of Luffy's crew in each of it's short story (like an anthology). Are they entertaining? Yes. That said, Arlong Park is still reamins the jewel of an arc for this series.

It's *a* jewel. But now we're back in the realm of opinion. I know a lot of people that insist Alabasta is THEE best arc of the whole series, but it's not even my second favorite.

One Piece is a continuing graphic novel. It's not a collection of short stories. Each chapter continues right into the next without a final conclusion, and will continue to do so until it finally reaches the end. The story arcs don't always focus on one character, just some of them happen to.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by monir

As I see it, the length of an arc matters in story telling. Longer the arc, lesser the focus on the main subject of that part of the story telling and vice versa. One Piece's arc is very distinct from each other with special attention paid to different character in each of it's arc. Water 7's main attraction obviously is Robin. She is the meat of this arc and yet, it's taking so long to see her under the spotlight. Even for a great beginning to this arc with Usopp/Luffy-Going-Merry, it seems that part was no more than a side story. Of course it is interesting to see how the Luffy's crew is going to cope with the inner conflict, but will the set up be relevant later in the story? We will see. Anyway, my point is that longer running arc takes away focus from the main subject of it's story. Near the end of Skypiea Arc, I wasn't even sure what is this whole arc was about, other than storing it away another Kaizoku-gang adventure.

I'm not going to comment on when or how OP is going to end and if the archaic style of storytelling is even going to be relevant in the end, but I have to say One Piece is no novel. It's a bunch of short stories put together (not exactly like Arabain Nights in Wingy's analogy but similar) where the focus lies in each of Luffy's crew in each of it's short story (like an anthology). Are they entertaining? Yes. That said, Arlong Park is still reamins the jewel of an arc for this series.

I think the Water 7 arc has been outstanding personally. Like you've already said it started out strong with the Luffy/Usopp/going merry part, then set up the fight with CP9 and now We're getting backstory on Franky which I've enjoyed thus far (seen up to 251) because I think Franky's a badass character and It really seems like he's being setup to be the next crew member. Especially since he's wanted by the government now. Sure I haven't seen a fight in a few episodes but so what. I know it's coming and hopefully we'll get to see Robin Flashbacks.

It has dragged a little and the pacing is off but it really hasn't effected my opinion of the arc.

[chucky]

Originally Posted by monir

As I see it, the length of an arc matters in story telling. Longer the arc, lesser the focus on the main subject of that part of the story telling and vice versa. One Piece's arc is very distinct from each other with special attention paid to different character in each of it's arc............

Basically I think you are right about OP now. Well, the harshest comment I ever read written by a hong kong anime commentator prolly best described the problem of one piece now... I may not agree upon what he said 100% (more like 66% of it) but I think we can discuss the ideas he said. I can no longer find the original Chinese text but well if I do I will post it later. You can go glance their high quality commentaries in http://format-acg.org/content.html

3 major areas of criticisms on OP were laid down by the commentator: 1) it lacks a backbone story, 2) its format is repetitative, 3) it procrastinates. I personally don't think (1) itself is a real problem, but if you have also #2 and #3, the lacking of a main storyline can cause more troubles than it should. However, even if we can brush aside (1), fans of OP still need to face the other 2 major problems, and I wanna address these issues.

The format of OP is repetitative, according to the commentator, is the way the story is conveyed since strawhats entered the grandline -- the setup is always like this: one villian, and the SH faces them, numerous flashbacks and then fights fights and fights, and then defeats the villian and go on. It is by itself a problem? Well, IMO almost all shonen manga do the same thing, but the structure of OP with a particular delimitation of arcs in terms of islands, prolly have significantly magnified this repetitive pattern. Because each arc is structured in more or less the same way, and the continuity between the arcs is not particularly apparent, it really makes this pattern pops out. Yes, I think that guy is on target and IMO OP is now losing the magic it used to have.

And the procrastination of the story just exacerbated this problem further and makes its readers losing their patience. That problem is even more severe in the Enies Lobby chase -- it has been almost 7 months since the SH started to fight the marines and they are now about to fight CP9, and then the tempo is totally disrupted by the flashback of Robin.... as I commented before the hacking of the forum, why didn't Oda put the part of the Robin flashback, say, after the fighting of the train fighting sequence? As someone else commented, it is a very bad pacing decision on Oda's part. Now, it seems to be the story just keeps lingering on, and it lacks the magic before even more.

IMO, the division of the story into different arcs without much continuity between them, can be a very nice mechanism to control the story and number of characters, but it will be equally important to link each of the arcs together. I know some of you will argue that the existence of the ancient text and etc is meant to thread the story together, tying to Luffy's past, Gold D. Rogers' history and the meaning of D: but now we are at 400 chapters and why havent we been told what all these are about? I really can't understand the reason behind Oda's decision to veil all these after 8 years of writing a story.

I think the lack of continuation between arcs may not be that much a problem, if each arc can be more focused on one single issue, and that is what OP should be aimmed for. In Alabastan arc, we can see the issue of state and governance, but as usual, this theme has pretty much dissappeared since the major fight started in the Capital. In Skytopia, two incompatible themes exist: one is dreams vs cynical pragmatism (new era blah blah... anyone still remembers Blackbeard?) and the other one is minority in a state and the oppression by the majority. Unfortunately each of the themes were not well developed, and the destruction of the Angel Island seems more like a facile way to sweep the latter question under the carpet.

If OP is to be engaging again, I think it eventually has to solve this problem: no one can evoke the same emotion again and again with the all-too-familiar techniques without much innovation. I guess Oda really need to do one of the following two (or if he can, both): Either Oda will install a main storyline as a backbone story and everything from now then on will be closely related to it, and/or each arc will have a major theme and everything (including the fights) will be centered on it. I dont think OP can afford to be as lack of focus as now, or a lot of fans will get more impatient with the way it goes.

[wingdarkness]

I don't find either #1 nor #2 a major problem...The history of the Ultimate Weapon, The link between Gol D. and Monkey D., The History of why the OP world (ancient information) is like it is (Why is the World nearly 80% percent water which spawned the pirate era?)...OP has many backbone plots that are interesting and that i can't wait for answers... Problem #2 is the problem with nearly every shonen anime in existence...From DBZ to Naruto to BLEACH to Yu Yu hakusho to Shaman King to Flame of Recca to Get Backers to [insert your shonen here]...So if he has a problem with this he better write a letter to Shonen Jump or something because the bare truth is that shonen animes are very formulaic, bottomline...Now some are better than others, some have way more episodes to fill, and some are less obvious about staying to the script, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a shonen without repetitive qualities...Qualities that include: Boss kicks main character's a$$, his friends try to fight the Boss and his goons, they get PWNd then Main character recovers and then kicks Main-bosses a$$...


Now problem number #3 is one i do think is fair...and I have found myself feeling the same way...Granted when I started watching One Piece it was already 130 eps deep and I got to watch 3, 4 eps a day everyday which I loved and nowadays I'm lucky if I can watch 3 new episodes in a month...But I still sense the procrastination is much heavier here in the middle than in the beginning to middle of the series...even filler arcs like the Sennenryu one had lots of good action, pacing, and drama...The arc when they were stuck at the Enemy fort after they escaped Skypiea seemed to take forever and that was followed by the Davy-Back arc which I have still yet to complete cause nobody ever released it...Forgotten memories arc was good, but still it seemed like a time-killer (and usually One Piece filler doesn't really tend to be bad at all IMO)...

The Water 7 arc started with a bang and kept getting good and more intense (bubbling with heat at about ep 243-44) and then for some reason it has just bogged down so much to me...I'm a big fan of keeping the momentum going...It irks me sometimes when were at a boiling point and then the next 4 or 5 eps serve as flashback stories..and i tend to be very patient...it just seems it's gonna be a while before I get what i want and that's Luffy kicking a$$...Last time he kicked a$$ was the "memory creature" and before that it was like Eneru in Skypiea...It's seriously been like 50 eps since he's REALLY kicked a$$ and that kinda bothers me...I can feel that it's gonna be a while and lots of eps before they catch up with that train and infiltrate Ennis lobby, i almost feel like I should stop watching One Piece for like a year just to build my ep-cashe...But those are the gripes of someone who really loves this show...I can definatley live with so-called problems #1 and #2...

[Tommy]

Does OP have flaws? Yes

Will I watch it forever anyways? Yes

I watched Episodes 251 through 253 and I must admit they did drag a bit. Yes everything important in those 3 episodes could of been cut down to one episode but I guess they just can't allow themselves to get to caught up to the manga.

[Chuixupu]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the first one. Did the commenter make these statements much earlier in the series? One Piece has a very complex, epic backbone of a story. The thing is that it's being revealed slowly over time. And, while the story does tend to follow a repetitious format, it kind of HAS to, in order to keep a recognizable continuity, because the story is so long.

When I first started to watch One Piece, I didn't really want to get into it because of the length and for a fear that it would be nothing but repetition. But by the time I got to Arlong Park, I lost all my fears of what the story might be and realized this was a very complex, engaging story with great character development, and I think this has been consistent over time. The procrastination point is valid, but that's just something I learned to accept very early on - it's not going to change.
Right now, in my own humble opinion, the story is just fantastic and engaging as ever. although not without it's flaws. I find the comments in this thread really surprising because on every One Piece forum I post on except a couple of people here, I've never heard anything other than people saying that the story is at one of it's best moments. But, I guess you can't please everyone no matter what. :/