Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[SagaraSouske]

Doesn't matter if they do though, the society do not fear monsters, they can easily handle them with PK power. They are only afraid of a human turning on them since they have no defense due to their genetic manipulation. It may even be a good exercise to vent potential fiend's dark impulses by sending them as cleaner/guards to clean up the warped creation of karma demons before they become a serious issue. This balance out both type of issues actually.

[LuxorMG]

Was I the only one blown away by the subtleness/ambiguity in the last scene? For that last line, we hear her mirroring the episode title, but the frame cuts off above her mouth. I'm pretty sure we were hearing a monologue, with her being deep in thought---but she mistakenly voices it out loud... Which is exactly what the head of the Ethics Committee was afraid of, that she would spill things.

All this, only for Maria to hear it. And because the others aren't as mentally strong as Saki is, I can already see Maria doing something rash to find/save Mamoru. And just to put it out there, I think this is one of the most subtle and intricately hinted at death flags in this series so far.

Seriously, is nobody else amazed at the subtle direction this episode took?

EDIT: And let's not forget how the society they live in is now painted in a utilitarian/consequential light after everything is revealed. It's no longer good kids vs evil society, it's a LOT more ambiguous. I'm just so happy with this turn I just---GAAAHHH

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

Doesn't matter if they do though, the society do not fear monsters, they can easily handle them with PK power. They are only afraid of a human turning on them since they have no defense due to their genetic manipulation. It may even be a good exercise to vent potential fiend's dark impulses by sending them as cleaner/guards to clean up the warped creation of karma demons before they become a serious issue. This balance out both type of issues actually.

It's not monsters that are a problem, it's corrupting pretty much everything, in a completely unpredictable and destructive way. The problem is not simply the danger of gouma turning on humans, it's the fact that they have no control over a vast power that's potentially destructive in so many ways. (Remember what Shun said about why they're not allowed to go outside the allowed territory? Also how their power is able to change things on a molecular level? Yeah.)

Think of akki and gouma as individuals with untreatable, dangerous mental disorders. It's not like you can just tell an akki what to do once he's snapped. How can you stop him from coming back and slaughter everyone? Hell, how can you tell he's not going to snap while he's still around humans? Never mind the fact that once they start killing they're pretty much unstoppable... And as for gouma, just think about the difficulties and dangers in keeping them alive, yet away from society (how do you plan to feed them, for example? let alone correspond with them...), not to mention the violent outbursts of power like the one that claimed Shun's village and then Shun himself.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

In terms of pure emotional impact, Shin Sekai Yori is a show with few equals. In a word, it’s ruthless – no measures are taken to soften the impact events have on the viewer. We’re seeing these children in all their most vulnerable and sympathetic, and then being forced to watch their world crumble around them. And what a world it is, too – I think the most interesting question emerging as the series reaches the half-way point is whether this society is worth saving at all, considering the price it’s paying to try and limp on into the future.

The lessons we’re taught in life are that we should search for solutions, sensible paths that benefit everyone concerned. As a result, we tend to look for them in our fiction – in our anime no less than anywhere else – but I think our conditioning leads us astray with Shin Sekai Yori. There are no solutions to the questions this series asks us – only compromises of an ever-increasingly vile and unpleasant nature. Unless I miss my guess this series isn’t a conventional drama about obstacles and overcoming them; it’s a diary telling the story of a dying society, from the perspective of someone who already knows how the story ends. What message it seeks to impart about the world we leave in is a matter of debate, but the emotional impact of the story is hard to deny. As painful as it is to watch, this is a great series.

I agree with everything you said. But unless I am getting it wrong, you seem to think that the world portrayed by SSY, and the people living in it, are condemned by the show and that certain doom is imminent regardless of however much they struggle. I don't agree with those inferences.

To begin with, don't you think our world is much the same? As common as buzzwords like equality, humanity, compassion etc. are, our world is no less brutal than the one presented in SSY. And the inhabitants of that world no less conditioned to turn a blind eye to the dark secrets than us. I don't really wish to talk of what message SSY seeks to impart on our world but it's a but unavoidable. Especially because I wish to contend that the reason SSY is so emotionally challenging is because it doesn't bullshit around and sugarcoat the true nature of a species struggling for survival against all the odds.

But does that mean the world is doomed? That the species isn't "worth saving"? I don't think the answer to those questions can be in the affirmative at all. The world is harsh, yes, the people in it are making do by making very very harsh concessions, yes, but why is that a bad thing? First of all, isn't that just the way things are? Who is to decide whether or not the species is worth saving and more importantly, from what and how? Should it not be inspiring, and not condemning, that these people are making do and moving on despite everything? As harsh as their world is, they still manage to build a society. You can think of this from a negative perspective and think of how it's but a meaningless struggle and an essentially pathetic one at that against certain and ever impending doom but I don't think that that interpretation is very fair, even if it is factually true. Because the very charm of life is that it exists. Simply by continuing to survive, this society is already awe-inspiring. And despite all the concessions they are forced to make, they still manage to care the best they can for their society as a whole. That's very respectable. They may indeed be fighting a pathetic struggle but it's the struggle that's their victory, not the result. As long as they continue to struggle, that certain doom that awaits in the future doesn't matter.

SSY hits very close to home but doesn't come across as misanthropic because the violence it portrays isn't mindless violence but genuine throes. Most works in fiction that try to portray the truth in the cold harsh "as it really is" form fall prey to being judgmental and presenting the follies as but the very essence of the world. SSY doesn't judge and it definitely doesn't say that negativity is the one true essense of the world and that the people in it are nothing but ignorant hypocrites. Here we have a harsh world and a feeble population essentially deluding themselves trying to survive the best they can. I am definitely not going to say they look anything but pathetic, but as cynical as I am, I am not going to condemn them for trying their best. And the show deserves major props for managing to portray their struggle without judging them.

[Byakou]

This ep makes the bad guys look like good guys after all. But I'm not convinced yet.

[Dark Wing]

Now let me see if got this right...The difference between Karma Demons and Fiends are:

Karma Demons: Are PK's who lose control of their powers causing it slowly leek out and corrupt everything around due to a genetic defect.

Fiends: Are PK's who snap under extreme stress literally becoming who kill with no sense of guilt or remorse.

[garbage]

excellent episode, with none of the confusing graphics, and lots of issues cleared up. This really is a world I'd rather not live in. It just has this sense of pervading hopelessness and senselessness. So what do you do if the problem is yourself, deep inside yourself. It feels like their whole society is turning into a Karma Demon.

[Theo]

Lots of infodump, but still a great ep:

-Seeing the gore and nightmarish, surreal Fiends again was great.

-Mamoru, Diary of a Wimpy Psychic Kid

-Maria goes apeshit, right?

-Psychic tits

For some odd reason, this music feels appropriate for what's to come:

[SagaraSouske]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

It's not monsters that are a problem, it's corrupting pretty much everything, in a completely unpredictable and destructive way. The problem is not simply the danger of gouma turning on humans, it's the fact that they have no control over a vast power that's potentially destructive in so many ways. (Remember what Shun said about why they're not allowed to go outside the allowed territory? Also how their power is able to change things on a molecular level? Yeah.)

Think of akki and gouma as individuals with untreatable, dangerous mental disorders. It's not like you can just tell an akki what to do once he's snapped. How can you stop him from coming back and slaughter everyone? Hell, how can you tell he's not going to snap while he's still around humans? Never mind the fact that once they start killing they're pretty much unstoppable... And as for gouma, just think about the difficulties and dangers in keeping them alive, yet away from society (how do you plan to feed them, for example? let alone correspond with them...), not to mention the violent outbursts of power like the one that claimed Shun's village and then Shun himself.

That's why I said to send Gouma to isolated areas. They can effect their surrounding all they want and it will not effect civilization.

As for Akki, what I mean was when someone shows signs of potential Akki, don't just get rid of them, send them to the out skirts of the Gouma area and train them to clear all the dangerous warped lifeform caused by gouma.

Thus you don't force Gouma to suicide, and they won't effect the villages and towns and you have potential Akki relieving their murderous impulse on dangerous mutated life instead of build up to the point of turning into Akki. Gouma will have time to study their own symptoms and come up with solutions and potential Akki will never turn into a real one.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

That's why I said to send Gouma to isolated areas. They can effect their surrounding all they want and it will not effect civilization.

These kinds of pollution from the Gouma isn't really any different from environmental pollution in the real world. If left alone long enough, it will eventually come to haunt them for future generations of which the consequences might be disastrous for surrounding civilizations. But because the rapid mutation and corrosion of the environment, it could birth some truly monstrous creatures in a short amount of time.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

That's why I said to send Gouma to isolated areas. They can effect their surrounding all they want and it will not effect civilization.

As for Akki, what I mean was when someone shows signs of potential Akki, don't just get rid of them, send them to the out skirts of the Gouma area and train them to clear all the dangerous warped lifeform caused by gouma.

Thus you don't force Gouma to suicide, and they won't effect the villages and towns and you have potential Akki relieving their murderous impulse on dangerous mutated life instead of build up to the point of turning into Akki. Gouma will have time to study their own symptoms and come up with solutions and potential Akki will never turn into a real one.

What Elestia said, except that it's not even monstrous ceatures that are the real problem in the long run, it's everything else. It's a total and unpredictable corruption of your environment, and yes, first it may be an isolated region, but who says it can't spread? Disregarding things like corrupting foodstuff people eat, what if it eventually seeps inside populated areas? Also, remember that Shun's symptoms included random outbursts that destroyed an entire village? Not to mention, there's still the logistics of getting them there, feeding them, clothing them, preparing them (Shun was an exceptional person, a random someone may not be so clear-sighted about what's happening to them) communicating with them, and the fact that gouma are still people whose condition makes them suffer and can potentially drive them completely insane and then there's no telling what they might do. (Not to mention, what do you do with more than one gouma? Or if there are gouma in other villages? After a while there won't be a sufficient amount of isolated regions...)

As for akki, again, this is not something that happens consciously or in any way that a person can influence (let alone train). What potential akki have is not "violent urges" per se, it's a disturbed mind that one day may snap and cause them to start a murder spree. (Remember what Tomiko said?) The genetic barriers against attacking and killing other humans don't work in them, and there's absolutely nothing that stops them from going back to whatever village they came from, or to another village. I mean, technically they're sociopaths. Also, there's again logistics: how do you feed them, clothe them, communicate with them, etc? Would you send someone out and hope for the best?

[deadsea]

It's crazy to leave them in a isolated place, what will happen here is varied, too many options and most are negative ... so why take the risk?

The cantus effect is unpredictable, and that is a product of the subconscious causing unimaginable changes in the environment, even if they are together may mutate.
Also the corruption can spread like a seed, a species that has mutated can migrate and cause disturbances. If they are left in an isolated place, someone who has a capacity of leader can convince and organize retaliate.
And like Kuro said

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Also, there's again logistics: how do you feed them, clothe them, communicate with them, etc? Would you send someone out and hope for the best?

How they will eat if everything is mutated around?

[Warm Mist]

It is very possible that the solution the Ethics Committee came up with is not the optimal one; I think this will even be a point of the anime at some degree, at some time.

But we don't have enough information yet to come up with anything better, and we aren't even sure if what we were told in this episode is the complete story. There's still half of the runtime left, so many things can change our perception of SSY's world, and the would-be procedure we would adopt to enhance it if we were the leaders.

[Archon_Wing]

Exposition episode, but very well done. The previous history being fake and the two events being espoused here change the narrative a lot. And we still don't know how much of it is reliable, but it's clear that the world in the previous generation was even worse than it was now and extreme methods were used to survive.

The whole episode worked really nicely on a mental level, creating a sense of uneasiness that always permeated the series, but suddenly in this episode, it's quickly accelerated. Shit is going to suck for Saki next episode.

[DragoZERO]

Great episode. Truly. I admire how they don't hide the gruesomeness from the viewer. As for Mamoru... he had Maria and he had to go and blow it. The fool!

[whitecloud]

it seems at shin sekai yori they don't have psychologist... since the problem regarding karma demon and fiends can be solved before it happen with mental therapy and drug even though they have drugs like antibiotics and such.......when it happen well there is no other choice but to dispose of them
since from what i see karma demon problem is the person is repressing his desire deep inside thus the cantus leaking subconciously, and for fiends is tendency for violence that break under extreme stress

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

it seems at shin sekai yori they don't have psychologist... since the problem regarding karma demon and fiends can be solved before it happen with mental therapy and drug even though they have drugs like antibiotics and such.......when it happen well there is no other choice but to dispose of them
since from what i see karma demon problem is the person is repressing his desire deep inside thus the cantus leaking subconciously, and for fiends is tendency for violence that break under extreme stress

The thing is (like in Psycho-Pass :O ) that not everything is solvable by mental theraphy. Even in Shun's case, hyposis doesn't even work anymore.

[NoemiChan]

I still feel that the "scientist" failed in preventing the occurrences of such condition before the signs and symptoms appear... They already "controlled" the life of the people but these "people" still appears in the population... can't they predict it even at the genetic level or during birth..

[MartianMage]

I think around this time would be the time to introduce a fiend into the story especially since this episode just went all the way to explain the details... Mamoru will prolly turn into a fiend due to his paranoia...

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by LuxorMG

Was I the only one blown away by the subtleness/ambiguity in the last scene?

I was too, I actually got chills right after the credits started playing. The way Saki looked at Maria at the last second was odd.

Absolutely loved this epi, the Elder's explanation of the difference btwn Fiend and Karma Demon was very interesting and now it's easier to see why Shun ended up being a Demon. The scene when K goes on his slaughter was....wow.

I was a bit surprised tho when the Elder stated how they decided to weed out any potenial Fiend or Demons that the girl who disappeared first from Group 1 (Kikyo? It was so long ago forgot her name) was "spirited away" for lack of a better term. I wonder why they consider kids who may not possess the best skills a threat? Saki's mom was also worried about her since she got into the school late. Now Mamoru isnt doing well. To me that isnt a sign of Fiend/Demon behavior, maybe like some kids they just are slow learners. I guess we'll see with Mamoru what could happen when in that situation.

Bring on 13!