Character Discussion - Suzaku

[SoldierOfDarkness]

*Still looking for it*

Oh come on I can't be the only one that read it! I didn't even posted it either.

[Meatrose]

No, you're not the only one. I also remember reading it, but I can't seem to figure out where. Sorry.

[noodlemeister]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Well the Japanese were content enough to have their own region within Area 11 made up by Euphie.

It will always be the Britannians who make the laws, and change those laws, anytime they wish. This will bring about terrorism aka fighting for freedom and Japanese will never be united as one.

In this case it'll be under Suzaku himself though they'll still be discontent and distrust there so he would have a long way to go to make it a better place.

And don't forget, he's a knight of the Emperor. To go against Suzaku would be the equivalent of opposing the Emperor (Which no one would dare).

And that's precisely what's wrong with Suzaku's ways, asking for absolute submission. The people in Area 11 will forever be under control of Britannia. If real life is any indication, there will always be a group of people who cannot stand occupation.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

*Still looking for it*

Oh come on I can't be the only one that read it! I didn't even posted it either.

you probably just misunderstood something. >_>

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

*Still looking for it*

Oh come on I can't be the only one that read it! I didn't even posted it either.

First I heard of it was when you posted it. Besides I think Suzaku has other things to worry about like how badly Lelouch's revenge on him is going to be.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by ashlay

you probably just misunderstood something. >_>

Et tu Ashlay?

Well eitherway it WOULD help explain why Suzaku is still fighting for Britannia.

Though I admit I was the one who said Suzaku would probably never even want to go near japan again.

*Note: Until I find the link I'm putting the Knight of One on hold*

[noodlemeister]

I don't see why else he would opt to join the Knights of the Round other than the reason stated. He's character differs from Lelouch in that he's trying to work with Britannia to make the world (in his case, maybe the world is Japan?) a better place while Lelouch's trying to destroy Britannia to do so.

[Kristen]

The thing about Suzaku to me (As someone who saw 1-7 of R1 and 1 of R2) is that he seems to be broken, somehow. Like, he seems to have been in wavering allegiance, even if he was still loyal. Like, his exterior showed that, but his heart wanted to join Zero. Yet, after R2, it seems like his rebellious state is gone...

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

The thing about Suzaku to me (As someone who saw 1-7 of R1 and 1 of R2) is that he seems to be broken, somehow. Like, he seems to have been in wavering allegiance, even if he was still loyal. Like, his exterior showed that, but his heart wanted to join Zero. Yet, after R2, it seems like his rebellious state is gone...

Yeah, we'll have to see some more of him this season, but I think his allegiance is extremely resolute now despite being very much in reality once more.

Though my sense is he's basically chosen to be the anti-thesis of Zero because of the consequences of Lelouch's actions in season 1. If people like Euphie have to die for rebellion, then rebellion be damned, the world should stay the way it is.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

It's just occured to me, how did Suzaku get the position of 7? Was the 7th position open or did Wakamoto just knock one guy out and moved the rest of the knights to their next position?

Like, he seems to have been in wavering allegiance, even if he was still loyal. Like, his exterior showed that, but his heart wanted to join Zero. Yet, after R2, it seems like his rebellious state is gone...

Because he's fully aware of what Zero had done for the Japanese.

[Voduar]

As a character Suzaku is a little hard to analyze. His speech is not consistent with his military actions, indicating he is either oblivious or a fool, but his actions outside of a mech show neither. While he certainly wears his naivette like a shield, he does not come off as mentally deficient, which leads one to a limited number of conclusions. We are given several options, the first of which is that he is operating under a lot of self delusion. This seems to be a logical conclusion, though its a little hard to prove, most people seem to believe its true.

So, the question to me is, Does he realize that he is rescuing mechs that were in the process of slaughtering civilians? When I first saw the series, I assumed he had to realize that, but having seen a few of his defenders, it occurred to me that he might not tumble to the fact that most of Zero's attacks have occurred during anti-civilian missions. Answering that, which will hopefully be happening this season, will make Suzaku's motivations much clearer.

Oh, and personally, I hate Suzaku with the burning passion of a thousand suns, in the very moment they are consumed by a black hole and release their energy in a burst of unimaginable power. But, every hero needs a foil, I guess

[TheRainbowConnection]

Originally Posted by Voduar

So, the question to me is, Does he realize that he is rescuing mechs that were in the process of slaughtering civilians? When I first saw the series, I assumed he had to realize that, but having seen a few of his defenders, it occurred to me that he might not tumble to the fact that most of Zero's attacks have occurred during anti-civilian missions. Answering that, which will hopefully be happening this season, will make Suzaku's motivations much clearer.

I think that he's developed an incredible capacity for rationalization as a defense mechanism. Why are things the way they are? Because that is how order requires it to be. If might (and not justice) makes order, and order makes happiness, then he's going to enforce order at the end of a VARIS rifle. So yes, I think he does realize that he's helping units engaged in senseless slaughter of civilians, and I truly think that he believes that what they're doing is wrong. But, he has wrapped himself up in this mindframe where he'll still go along with blatant injustice.

And I don't hate him. He is an otherwise strong man who has faced intense pressure...and buckled greatly. His actions don't make him particularly likable, and it's still hard to empathize with him, but it's easy to see how very broken and human he is. And that is what makes him a very interesting character. He's no superhuman (minus speedhax and wallhax). He's a huge enigma, and I constantly want to know more about the parts of his life that we don't know about (pre-Lelouch and between the ages of 10 and 17). At any rate, he makes a far more interesting antagonist than Gundam's straight-laced-best-friend (a la Athrun) or, even worse, generic nihilist #57 (see: Rau, Rey, Zechs, etc.).

[Voduar]

Originally Posted by TheRainbowConnection

I think that he's developed an incredible capacity for rationalization as a defense mechanism. Why are things the way they are? Because that is how order requires it to be. If might (and not justice) makes order, and order makes happiness, then he's going to enforce order at the end of a VARIS rifle. So yes, I think he does realize that he's helping units engaged in senseless slaughter of civilians, and I truly think that he believes that what they're doing is wrong. But, he has wrapped himself up in this mindframe where he'll still go along with blatant injustice.

And I don't hate him. He is an otherwise strong man who has faced intense pressure...and buckled greatly. His actions don't make him particularly likable, and it's still hard to empathize with him, but it's easy to see how very broken and human he is. And that is what makes him a very interesting character. He's no superhuman (minus speedhax and wallhax). He's a huge enigma, and I constantly want to know more about the parts of his life that we don't know about (pre-Lelouch and between the ages of 10 and 17). At any rate, he makes a far more interesting antagonist than Gundam's straight-laced-best-friend (a la Athrun) or, even worse, generic nihilist #57 (see: Rau, Rey, Zechs, etc.).

Interesting, I can see that being the case, though I am not purely sold on that. However, and this is sort of a series flaw, Suzaku seems to only give very blunt statements of his beliefs, so we don't necessarily know if he thinks that coarsely, or if there is a more nuanced view in his head somewhere. Perhaps that is on the plate for this season. Self delusion does seem to be a bit of a theme in Code Geass, so it will be interesting to see how far the writers take it.

As to why my hate for Suzaku burns with the power of a galactic core gamma ray, its sort of a gut reaction. I really, really dislike the paladin archetype, and he fits many of the more annoying tropes of that, while simultaneously assisting in the depopulation of civilian areas. Also, and perhaps this is a geographical thing, but he strikes me as something we southerners call a "House Slave". He is disturbingly ok with Britannians abusing/murdering/tyrannizing his own people, and this just gets right under my skin. Seems wrong somehow.

[mangastuff]

Originally Posted by TheRainbowConnection

At any rate, he makes a far more interesting antagonist than Gundam's straight-laced-best-friend (a la Athrun) or, even worse, generic nihilist #57 (see: Rau, Rey, Zechs, etc.).

Agree. He is complicated and that's what makes him more interesting as an antagonist than many of his type. He is, in some way, as kind-hearted as Lulu, and in other way, as selfish and ruthless as Lulu. But for some (known or unknown) reasons they go toward opposite ends. However even with those opposite characteristics they still resemble each other, like moon and sun, black and white. Lulu can destroy the world to protect someone, then Suzaku also can destroy anything to take revenge for a certain person. While Lulu manipultes others, Suzaku lie to himself...

But I still don't like Suzaku. He just turns my nerves

[Airi]

well...(after watching ep 2) I can say that the Real Suzaku is as cold blooded as Lelouch! I love it!!!

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Airi

well...(after watching ep 2) I can say that the Real Suzaku is as cold blooded as Lelouch! I love it!!!

I hate Suzaku even more now

[Airi]

Originally Posted by Narona

I hate Suzaku even more now

this is his vengeance....Lelouch killed Euphie after all

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Airi

this is his vengeance....Lelouch killed Euphie after all

But they are still not even, as Suzaku helped taken Nunnally away to Britannia. Hence there is still a score to settle for Lulu.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Airi

this is his vengeance....Lelouch killed Euphie after all

yeah yeah, and then Suzaku and V.V. took everything from Lelouch including his memories. >_>

Time to see how tough they are when the aren't catching Lelouch completely off-guard.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by ashlay

yeah yeah, and then Suzaku and V.V. took everything from Lelouch including his memories

Well, without memories he lived a very quiet and normal life.....