Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Faerie]

Ahh, being reminded that Lacus could've prevented Fllay from going off the deep end if they'd given her a chance to tell Rau off the way she did this episode a bit earlier :/

Also, episode of hilarious shocked expressions.

Animation quality was pretty meh this episode, lots of deformed faces and bodies. Oh well, happens even in a remaster I suppose

[monster]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Ahh, being reminded that Lacus could've prevented Fllay from going off the deep end if they'd given her a chance to tell Rau off the way she did this episode a bit earlier :/

As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20.

[aeriolewinters]

As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20.

That doesn't excuse her from being a huge hypocrite though. Helping Fllay would've been a great way to prove the redhead wrong.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

That doesn't excuse her from being a huge hypocrite though.

I think you're misusing the term "hypocrite."

Helping Fllay would've been a great way to prove the redhead wrong.

You're assuming Lacus wanted and/or needed to prove Flay wrong.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

You're assuming Lacus wanted/needed to prove Flay wrong.

Can't imagine why she wouldn't. It was crap like what Flay was spouting about Coordinators that were preventing the war from ending, and Lacus is a massive supporter of peace...

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Can't imagine why she wouldn't. It was crap like what Flay was spouting about Coordinators that were preventing the war from ending,

To what are you referring?

and Lacus is a massive supporter of peace...

That doesn't change the fact that there are parties from both sides that wanted the war to continue until the other side is eliminated.

[aeriolewinters]

That doesn't change the fact that there are parties from both sides that wanted the war to continue until the other side is eliminated.

The point is, Lacus could've taught Fllay the importance of knowing that war isn't Black and White, and that It's shades of gray. The whole handling of this situation, actually is what gave SEED's detractors ammunition to rant on Lacus, because she obviously has the capability to change the outcome of what happened, but she conviniently shied away from quite possible what would've endeared her as a character, yes I get that she's well liked for her looks and her overall attitude, but she was never consistent with her character, and this event is one big reason why.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

The point is, Lacus could've taught Fllay the importance of knowing that war isn't Black and White, and that It's shades of gray.

No, you only think Lacus could do what you want her to do, but you have nothing to back up your claim.

Flay has a prejudice against Coordinator, and even knowing that Kira is also a Coordinator doesn't cause her to question her beliefs about Coordinator. And yet you expect that Lacus, a girl that Flay doesn't even want to be civil with, could somehow make Flay change her entire beliefs about Coordinator, let alone about war.

The whole handling of this situation, actually is what gave SEED's detractors ammunition to rant on Lacus,

Just because they have ammunition, it doesn't mean they're hitting any target.

Case in point:

because she obviously has the capability to change the outcome of what happened, but she conviniently shied away from quite possible what would've endeared her as a character, yes I get that she's well liked for her looks and her overall attitude, but she was never consistent with her character, and this event is one big reason why.

Again, you're making a claim without having any basis. No, it wasn't obvious that Lacus could've changed what happened.

[aeriolewinters]

Again, you're making a claim without having any basis. No, it wasn't obvious that Lacus could've changed what happened.

This is the same person who won a war with most of her main suits and ships intact. and even in-timeframe, she made Rau stop, just hours after that battle.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

This is the same person who won a war with most of her main suits and ships intact. and even in-timeframe, she made Rau stop, just hours after that battle.

It may be the same person, but those are different times and different situations.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

This is the same person who won a war with most of her main suits and ships intact. and even in-timeframe, she made Rau stop, just hours after that battle.

Natural's don't think twice about what a coordinator says due to prejudice... No matter how powerful your ability to influence you cannot teach someone who is unwilling to listen. Lacus influence becomes more prominent after the events of SEED when the TSA stops the war before that I can't imagine a natural listening to her speeches.

[Faerie]

Haha what have I started now..? =)

@Blade Eternity: well, maybe not a (random, undefined) natural (even that statement is contrived and prejudiced. You're shearing everyone over one comb. As if "every" natural were the same. Nonsense. By the same logic, Natarle should've put Lacus down the second she came out of that pod. People aren't that bloodthirsty or stupid unless they're deranged in some way).
Fllay is an intelligent young girl. Yes, she has some childish prejudice born due to listening to propaganda and fear of the unknown- not hatred about things that happened to her (at the time she meets Lacus). But that kind is easily rooted out and anything from a sit down with Lacus to a demonstration of kindness would've done the trick. You've seen Fllays rage, you've seen her be grateful- imagine how having her father saved would've given her attitude a 180.

@ everyone else : As monster says, hindsight is 20/20. That said, Lacus' treatment of Rau clearly shows she was capable and willing to help her rescuers and she could've done so earlier if given the chance. If this is due to the Archangel crew not asking the right questions or Lacus being unwilling at first is obviously the subject of debate.
I'd say both play into it. They could've said Hey, we rescued you, now you can help save some lives to help us out. She would've consented, because she doesn't support bloodshed.
The more difficult position is that she could've offered. That seems a lot to expect, but it really isn't given who she is and her mindset. The likes of Relena, Kihel etc would've done it and according to her personality, so should she. It doesn't matter that Fllay was rude to her, everyone else was kind and she's smart enough to not judge the life of others based on the rude words of one 14 year old girl. What kind of a person would do that, seriously? xD

In other words, this was necessary plot wise to make Fllay a "bad guy" and Lacus ultimately the "good guy".. with regards to Lacus' personality it's an inconsistency that raises questions and a missed opportunity for her to shine.

[aeriolewinters]

Gundam SEED Remaster EP 11

srb's theory is right.

[monster]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Fllay is an intelligent young girl. Yes, she has some childish prejudice born due to listening to propaganda and fear of the unknown- not hatred about things that happened to her (at the time she meets Lacus). But that kind is easily rooted out and anything from a sit down with Lacus to a demonstration of kindness would've done the trick. You've seen Fllays rage, you've seen her be grateful- imagine how having her father saved would've given her attitude a 180.

Well, I'll just say that I'm still not convinced about what you're saying and just leave it at that (for now).

@ everyone else : As monster says, hindsight is 20/20. That said, Lacus' treatment of Rau clearly shows she was capable and willing to help her rescuers and she could've done so earlier if given the chance. If this is due to the Archangel crew not asking the right questions or Lacus being unwilling at first is obviously the subject of debate.
I'd say both play into it. They could've said Hey, we rescued you, now you can help save some lives to help us out. She would've consented, because she doesn't support bloodshed.
The more difficult position is that she could've offered. That seems a lot to expect, but it really isn't given who she is and her mindset. The likes of Relena, Kihel etc would've done it and according to her personality, so should she. It doesn't matter that Fllay was rude to her, everyone else was kind and she's smart enough to not judge the life of others based on the rude words of one 14 year old girl. What kind of a person would do that, seriously? xD

First of all, keep in mind that, while Lacus would've preferred peace, she wasn't actively protesting against her nation's war effort up to that point.

So, with that said, the difference between when Kira released Lacus and when ZAFT were fighting the AF fleet is that the first was supposed to be a peaceful release of prisoner while the second was just another battle in the ongoing war.

That's why when Lacus spoke up to Rau, she didn't try to claim her position as the daughter of Siegel Clyne, but instead, as a representative of the Junius 7 memorial committee. Lacus didn't challenge Rau's right to fight the war, but his action of starting a conflict when that particular situation was about to conclude peacefully.

So, no, just because Lacus could deter Rau from attacking, it doesn't mean she could stop a battle that's in progress just because of her mere presence. And by the way, Cagalli unfortunately had to find that out the hard way in Destiny.

In other words, this was necessary plot wise to make Fllay a "bad guy" and Lacus ultimately the "good guy".. with regards to Lacus' personality it's an inconsistency that raises questions and a missed opportunity for her to shine.

Given what I said, I don't think it was inconsistent of Lacus to not try to stop the battle. She took the opportunity with Rau, but that doesn't mean that Lacus was going around trying to stop the war, yet.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Gundam SEED Remaster EP 11

srb's theory is right.

What is srb's theory?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well yeah, but you still know what I'm getting at. The anti-ship sword and cannon don't look like they're attached to their usual packs, though, so it's still one Gundam and one Striker Pack powering what is essentially three Striker Packs. I imagine the way its set up, the Sword Striker would use up the least amount of energy, but the Aile and Launcher Strikers together would be pretty power-consuming for the Gundam. It'd still need extra juice.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...0712486806.jpg

Hmm, it looks like Strike does indeed have all of its packs. Still, I'm not saying those things at the back are not an extra source of power.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...0712486806.jpg

Hmm, it looks like Strike does indeed have all of its packs. Still, I'm not saying those things at the back are not an extra source of power.

It appears to have the attachment arms for the Launcher and Sword Strikers, yes, but given how the battery sections for those units are occupied by the same space as the Aile Striker pack parts, I daresay it's still running on only a single internal battery for the Striker Pack amalgamation without that jury-rigged outside battery set.

[aeriolewinters]

Kira is going to do something epic with this, and I just can't wait for it. If not, this will be the biggest tease ever.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

It appears to have the attachment arms for the Launcher and Sword Strikers, yes, but given how the battery sections for those units are occupied by the same space as the Aile Striker pack parts, I daresay it's still running on only a single internal battery for the Striker Pack amalgamation without that jury-rigged outside battery set.

Ah, is this what you meant? I never noticed it before.



(I don't know if you can see the red arrow in the image above.)

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Kira is going to do something epic with this

I really hope so. But, somehow, I feel a disappointment coming up.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

Ah, is this what you meant? I never noticed it before.



(I don't know if you can see the red arrow in the image above.)

Pretty much yeah.

[aeriolewinters]

I really hope so. But, somehow, I feel a disappointment coming up.

Somehow, I do feel that this is an elaborate c***tease, and in the end of the day, the only true Super Strike Gundam is the one you make with an RG 1/144 Strike Gundam