Campione!(カンピオーネ!) [Light Novel]

[Feng Lengshun]

So, a few questions then: Is invoking the name of God a must? How does the chants works? Is it possible to personalize it? Would it effect the magic? How exactly does it fades? And how exactly did it accomplish the deed? By manipulating laws of reality? By making things possible when it's impossible? By recreating science? Then what about when Gods are involved? How does one unlocks it? How does one controls it? How does one channels it? What's the history involved? How about the past, how were things back then? How is the Earth and the space related to these laws? Then there's the Hime-Miko and the Witches, how does their power works? Why does their powers works like that? Is there no one researching the magic?

As it is, we don't know how exactly the magic worked. True, it might be unfair to compare it with Nasuverse, but to a writer like me, those informations are vital. There aren't that much things known about it, so I don't know what's possible and what's impossible in that world and I don't even know how to make sense of them and why. Take for example, the eclipse in the recent V15C3. Was it an illusion? The real thing? A pocket dimension or bounded field of some sort? Is it global? How does it works? What are the extent of its effects?

And that's just the magic. There's still how the Campione and Heretic God system worked and the background between them. Was the world created like that? Did it changed? Why? How? What role does Artos fit into the system? Is everything natural? Or did someone planned things intentionally? Is there a higher power or a ranking in the system? An actual God God? How much does humans effects things really? How about faith? Does animals and plants' counts? How hard is it to change the history of a deity? How flexible is it?

As you can see, there are sooo many questions to be asked, and while I could find out a few answer by reading intently or making estimations, most I don't have a direct answer for. It's not Key's work level, but it doesn't have the same level of drama and story to make me not mind them.

Anyway, on another topic, I've decided to continue playing Fortune Arterial. And I immediately questioned, "Why the hell is Erica here?" Oh wait, that's right, this isn't Erica. This is Erika. Big difference. I suppose that's why the Erica design for the manga was a bit different, the manga had been running until around the time Campione! manga was published, wouldn't want to make people mistake who it was or say that it was plagiarizing it.

By the gods, would some PLEASE clean up the wikipedia page for Campione!? Someone freaking dumped a bunch of information without know what's called paragraphing there. It's like a wall of texts. Oh wait, it is. So, could someone please fix it? I'm not doing it, though I can since wikipedia now doesn't require logging in to edit anymore, but thinking of where exactly to put line breaks is quite tedious and boring. And I still have to continue playing FA too, so it's too someone else.

[Mars Mode]

A lot of the things you guys pointed out have been addresded in multiple chances by every one of the girls, but Godou doesnt care, one because he was educated that way by her grandmother, and the other is because he wants to view himself like that.

His true nature has been exposed, and Godou is to a certain extent aware but his common sense holds him back.

The girls are insecure, not only by girls who get close to Godou, but by the very Girls that are interested in him. If Godou had chosen to stay with Circe they would have lost him for good. And he himself takes those opportunities and makes the best out of them.

He never really wanted to be a Campione. And a Campione doesnt have responsabilitys. Some of the things he can do he views it as something normal, something every one can do, something akin as if I can do it why cant you do it. It doesnt matter if he is abnormal to him this is a normal thing to do.

The novel has a nice pace, if you can do it faster I congratulate you but I most likely wont read your novel, why because I like the atmosphere of the novel, and the way it presents itself is to my liking. I didnt come here to read about something serious when the very MC walks to a duel to death as if he was going to reunite with a friend.

[Mars Mode]

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

So, a few questions then: Is invoking the name of God a must? How does the chants works? Is it possible to personalize it? Would it effect the magic? How exactly does it fades? And how exactly did it accomplish the deed? By manipulating laws of reality? By making things possible when it's impossible? By recreating science? Then what about when Gods are involved? How does one unlocks it? How does one controls it? How does one channels it? What's the history involved? How about the past, how were things back then? How is the Earth and the space related to these laws? Then there's the Hime-Miko and the Witches, how does their power works? Why does their powers works like that? Is there no one researching the magic?

As it is, we don't know how exactly the magic worked. True, it might be unfair to compare it with Nasuverse, but to a writer like me, those informations are vital. There aren't that much things known about it, so I don't know what's possible and what's impossible in that world and I don't even know how to make sense of them and why. Take for example, the eclipse in the recent V15C3. Was it an illusion? The real thing? A pocket dimension or bounded field of some sort? Is it global? How does it works? What are the extent of its effects?

And that's just the magic. There's still how the Campione and Heretic God system worked and the background between them. Was the world created like that? Did it changed? Why? How? What role does Artos fit into the system? Is everything natural? Or did someone planned things intentionally? Is there a higher power or a ranking in the system? An actual God God? How much does humans effects things really? How about faith? Does animals and plants' counts? How hard is it to change the history of a deity? How flexible is it?

Originally, this was an oracular verse from the sacred texts.

The verse was suddenly turned into an incantation, and flowed from Godou's mouth.

"The Boar shall ravage you! The Boar shall exterminate you!"

This was the Campione: "This is my boast of victory over the gods, the paean of my strength!"

This was the man turned into a devil: "This is my taunt at the gods, who are my foes!"

This was the victor: "This is my declaration of defiance, in order to grasp my godslaying strength!"

"O aethereal[1C 10] Gods, ye all who hath heard this verse of mine, rage at the death of your brethren!"

"O chthonic[1C 11] Gods, ye all who hath heard this verse of mine, wait uselessly for the day when my sacrilege returns for me!"

"O marine gods, ye all, who hath heard this verse of mine, mourn with adirge at your own helplessness!"

"I am the foe of all gods! I am the usurper of divine strength!"

Compelled by his devil-like ability, Godou unknowingly chanted these verses.

I believe this may answer some of your questions.

[Feng Lengshun]

^

Those are Authorities. What about magic, which is said to be imitation of it? Is it an imitation just because it's weaker? Or does it works the same way anyway? There's also the time when Alec chanted a spell that doesn't mention a god once:

"Glory of all creation, turn into power and be displayed! Seize the key to wisdom of the past as a woman!"

What about those? How does the words effects the magic? Does being a Campione has any effect on magic cast other than greater power due to bigger power source? On that note, is it possible to create a custom chant? If so, how and why? If not, why? How about for Authority? It was possible to activate an authority without a chant after all.

Originally Posted by Mars Mode

A lot of the things you guys pointed out have been addresded in multiple chances by every one of the girls, but Godou doesnt care, one because he was educated that way by her grandmother, and the other is because he wants to view himself like that.

His true nature has been exposed, and Godou is to a certain extent aware but his common sense holds him back.

The girls are insecure, not only by girls who get close to Godou, but by the very Girls that are interested in him. If Godou had chosen to stay with Circe they would have lost him for good. And he himself takes those opportunities and makes the best out of them.

He never really wanted to be a Campione. And a Campione doesnt have responsabilitys. Some of the things he can do he views it as something normal, something every one can do, something akin as if I can do it why cant you do it. It doesnt matter if he is abnormal to him this is a normal thing to do.

The novel has a nice pace, if you can do it faster I congratulate you but I most likely wont read your novel, why because I like the atmosphere of the novel, and the way it presents itself is to my liking. I didnt come here to read about something serious when the very MC walks to a duel to death as if he was going to reunite with a friend.

No, I'm fine with it being relaxed too. If it's going to be relaxed and not very serious, then they shouldn't have added things that should have been taken seriously. Like relationships. They could have chosen the same route as Mondaiji and have girls but not romantic relationships. What? Because it's more funny this way? There are other ways you could do that. In fact, unresolved sexual tension can be very interesting. But a romantic relationship that went without a trouble despite it should? Nuh uh.

And there's also the way it decides to trivializes things in ways that made me could only object on the way it did it. For one, the traits of a Campione was probably added to make a lot of things more convenient, yet it's one of the major reason why I call them as "Gappies the Second," in other words, what makes them become Stus and Sues.

It doesn't have to be faster, but for its length, it doesn't really feel like a lot happened. That's the vibes I keep on getting from it. Lately it gotten better, but there's a reason why I am reluctant to touch the older ones again. It also doesn't have to be serious. It just have to make up its mind whether it wants to be serious, to be relaxed, or to be full blown crack. Instead, it mixes everything up. And no, I'm not talking about scene by scene. That's fine, there appropriate time for everything. I'm talking about the whole story in general.

Look, let's just stop this. I could go around all day pointing flaws and criticizing things in the series, but that's just a complete waste of time for reasons more than one. It can't be helped, most of the time when I do drop a review, I usually drop either a lot of criticism or a few criticism. It's rare that I don't. Frankly, I'm walking the same path as the "Cynically Critical Reviewer" but I have better tolerance than him so I'm letting it drop. Because nothing if perfect.

[Mars Mode]

This are conjetures based on various quotes from the novel (Im not going to bother to look for them)but allow me to talk about them. The conjetures stated in Italics

The authorities of a Campione are stolen and forged in a way it suits them.
Campiones channel magic by instinct.
This may also be the reason the authorities are molded in certain ways.
The Campione are sons of Epithemeus.
They awake when they are close to a God.
Only by battling other Gods or Campiones do they master their abilitys
Only by commiting a sacrilege they grasp the depth of their own abiltys
So the incantation is a way to taunt the Power itself and seize control of it
Therefore aumenting the power of the authority by channeling energy
This incantation is created by instinct and they chant it unknowingly compelled by instinct.

Magic is a way to channel magic by humans
It has been said it emulates Campiones
If a Campione channels magic by mocking the Gods
A human may channel it by having faith in said God
Magic is cathegorized by affinities
These affinities may vary from culture tu culture
Metal, Flight, Wind, Martial Arts, being possible affintys
So Affinities existing in some sistems of faith and studys of magic exist in this universe


And Im kinda lost after that because you asked too many questions at once

[Feng Lengshun]

There are also things like non-elemental magics like the Mailing magic, that Summoning magic, the usually used Leap magic. I think there had even been a teleportation magic. When you look at it, the normal magic could accomplish some great things too. But this is nothing in the eyes of gods and authorities. For some reason I don't know why. Is it the concept? The energy? The method? Nope, don't know. There's also the fact that Alec somehow utilized magic too. That went against some parts of your theories.

Actually, it is possible to answer many of those questions at once in a single answer. It is possible to extract additional implications and conclusions can be taken from confirmed facts after all. Though, again, it's not fair to compare it with Nasuverse. And there are those who tried to trump Nasuverse in terms of mechanics, but they tend to not be very entertaining in their attempts (*cough*Mahouka Koukou*cough*). Honestly, I don't need all of them to be answered, just a proper answer on the process and what can or can't be done with it would have satisfied me.

[edrey]

well, the power of magic or the authorites of the gods and campiones are thank to the realm of inmortality, that in a way is other universe with different laws but based in the miths, so the supernatural powers doesn't need to follow our scientific laws, for example how the heck doni can move with the autority of steel body...by the other hand the verses are from sacred texts, gods are myths themselfs so they don't need it.

about the harem, i personaly think that all is for erica and her overconfident right?

[Mars Mode]

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

There are also things like non-elemental magics like the Mailing magic, that Summoning magic, the usually used Leap magic. I think there had even been a teleportation magic. When you look at it, the normal magic could accomplish some great things too. But this is nothing in the eyes of gods and authorities. For some reason I don't know why. Is it the concept? The energy? The method? Nope, don't know. There's also the fact that Alec somehow utilized magic too. That went against some parts of your theories.

Actually, it is possible to answer many of those questions at once in a single answer. It is possible to extract additional implications and conclusions can be taken from confirmed facts after all. Though, again, it's not fair to compare it with Nasuverse. And there are those who tried to trump Nasuverse in terms of mechanics, but they tend to not be very entertaining in their attempts (*cough*Mahouka Koukou*cough*). Honestly, I don't need all of them to be answered, just a proper answer on the process and what can or can't be done with it would have satisfied me.

Indeed authorities are based on the power of myths, so to control any type of authority my theory may be correct. Magic is way of channeling this energy into a phenomenom, this is obviously recreated through myths, and magic if some of the talks are to be believed was originally not something humans possesed and gained after divine ancestors had descendants and passed magic to them. So faith may be more of a way to use this ability taking into account your ancestry.

[fronttide]

@Feng... based on my 3 years research on magic from Kalimantan Barat, Indonesia... i'll answer few from your many question

it's possible to change magic chant before islam enter my country, hindu and budha is main religion here and that time magic chant is use "Sanskrit language" and now change to arabic. like add name "allah" or "muhammad" in chant.

it's possible to change "stagram"? or (Rajah in indonesia language), back around 1000 years ago they use symbol from budha and hindu to do magic, and now they change it use arabic letter, but letter itselft is not important, you can change letter as you wish as long the meaning is same.

how magic works? based from what i learn human is have large energy inside their body, just think about it just eating a meal we can move this complicated body all day long, do you really possible for a meal to do something like that? yup, human get energy from earth, sky, etc from everything.... heat from sun, gravity from earth, etc.... plant and animal we eat also get energy from world, plant impossible to live without sunlight or earth

and we use those energy inside our body to do magic, there a lot name for magic itself ki chi magic sihir etc. because magic is unstable source power then we need to create some key to access it, that right "chant/mantra" it's possible to not chant a magic as long you remember how the spell work.




For existence a god i still can't provide a prove, but faith itself is largely change magic... but from what i research you can only use magic in earth, if you go to mars somehow you can't use it... i don't know why, maybe because law of nature is different so distrub the user,

is is one from may many book about magic



this is a magic to increse arms strength, the name is "Ilmu Pederas Tangan" using this magic you can hit or punch you enemy to the point you strong enouh to make your enemy out cold

"bismillahhirrahmannirrahim
banun allah
banun angkau
muhammad banun
cepat basi tasyani"

this chant is spoke in kalimantan language, in indonesia it's mean

"bismillahhirahmanirahin
bangun allah
bangun engkau
muhammad bangun
cepat besi tersan"

in english
"bismillahhirahmanirahin
wake up allah
wake up yourself
wake up muhammad
fast steel tersan"

i don't know what "tersan" mean >_< sorry




here indonesia we call "astral plane" as "Negeri atas awan" a place where a god, angel, and other divine being live, there also something like "devil palace" or "jin world", if your magic strong you can see something that a normal people can't see, like discover gate to "jin world", a rumor that passed down from HUNDRED OR THOUSAND years ago from past, in "kapuas rivers" there exit a gate to "jin world" my grandmother always scold me if i play near that river, maybe because it's deep, or something else exits in this place >_< i'll leave that to your imagination ^^

the fact i learn magic is not mean i want to become magician, i want to become scientist... but three years ago a friend really get in my nerve, so i decide to learn about is, and i never ever practice everthing that i learn, (so dont burn me in stack >_<).

by the way now iam live on west jave, cirebon.... in this city, it's hard to find someone who still believe in magic or know anything about magic.

do you think campione unable to use thier power in space? since god is created by human faith, then i you go to a place that no human ever life, then the existence god itself is gone...

[Feng Lengshun]

Originally Posted by edrey

well, the power of magic or the authorites of the gods and campiones are thank to the realm of inmortality, that in a way is other universe with different laws but based in the miths, so the supernatural powers doesn't need to follow our scientific laws, for example how the heck doni can move with the autority of steel body...by the other hand the verses are from sacred texts, gods are myths themselfs so they don't need it.

about the harem, i personaly think that all is for erica and her overconfident right?

No, it doesn't need to follow scientific laws, but it must have an 'inner science' for how it works. There must be a logic to how they works, otherwise, it might as well be a deus ex machina. Nasuverse explains everything, as does Mahouka, but it's not just them that explains their world's mechanics. For another example would be Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. For all it's about kicking logic and go to the impossible, it's still have an inner mechanics on how it works, explained using the Spiral Energy. As much as it's a cheap cop-out, it works, and awesomely while we're on it. Key's work on the other hand rarely explains anything in the fantasy side, but they have the advantage of good and engaging drama, which Campione! doesn't have.

Erica... well, her character is quite interesting but I much prefer Ena and Lilianna. But especially Ena. She's actually the one most successful when it comes to advancing relationships. That counts for something alright.

Originally Posted by Mars Mode

Indeed authorities are based on the power of myths, so to control any type of authority my theory may be correct. Magic is way of channeling this energy into a phenomenom, this is obviously recreated through myths, and magic if some of the talks are to be believed was originally not something humans possesed and gained after divine ancestors had descendants and passed magic to them. So faith may be more of a way to use this ability taking into account your ancestry.

I suppose that does explain some things. Again, not all, but it does explains some. Even if it's more of speculation than anything.

Originally Posted by fronttide

Things

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the inner mechanics IN-UNIVERSE. There are many magical system in the world, but the question is "How does the world of Campione! works?" I'm not talking about mysticism around the world, just the lore and mechanics of the Campione!verse, just about its logics and methods.

[Phoenix221186]

i remember reading something awhile ago .. that concentration can be increased by mantras just like incantation they help focus your mind into a single objective .. =/

lets put it a diferent way .. do you guys remember the guy that used ars magna in index? the needles he used for concentration ? in a way the needles were something like a incantation to focus into a single idea in his mind incantation work the same way you put everything into a single point trough it

[Forkys]

I has one more time started read all volume of campione and find in volume 8 how will campione end. Maybe author tells the ending as it was in Inheritance Cycle from Paolini, where he in first book hinted ending.

Instead, he saw the back of a lone man.

His looks which had ought to have been graceful, was painted with fearlessness of long military service, like rust.

Surely, he must be one who has lost interest in battles, after a long time, and was exhausted of it all. However, once, he had stood tall on the battlefield, and should have certainly played an active role, like a fierce god.

Solemn and sorrowful was the man's back, and his profile.

That was certainly, the figure of a hero, weary of battle ――

[fronttide]

well, if you ask how magic work in "campione! world" then my answer is... like hell i know >_< there too many loop hole, why don't you send letter to author and ask him to explain it on next book

[edrey]

about how it work, first you need the ability of store magic that only if possible with training, then the chant must be related to some myth like the fly magic of liliana, oh wing of artemis or the eli lama sabatian of erica that it invoke that air of hate and despair, when they master it they can do it without the chant because the feeling is the important thing, it was mentioned in vol 8
about the harem, erica cause all of it, in vol 1 she said that she will accept other lover, then liliana came knowing about the other two and ena don't need to be explained
erica was thinking the she could control godou and the mages of japan with allowing yuri, she was mad about liliana but she was her cildhood friend who always toyed, ena don't need explanation right? and godou was to much slow so
godou is a king and his word is law(even he doesn't want to other will make it true)
erica was over confident but she is in love beyond help well the other are the same
the other girls knew about entering in a harem since the begining
so erica was overconfident and godou is a idiot who alredy accepted having harem so that's it, right?

[Feng Lengshun]

Originally Posted by Phoenix221186

i remember reading something awhile ago .. that concentration can be increased by mantras just like incantation they help focus your mind into a single objective .. =/

lets put it a diferent way .. do you guys remember the guy that used ars magna in index? the needles he used for concentration ? in a way the needles were something like a incantation to focus into a single idea in his mind incantation work the same way you put everything into a single point trough it

Other series can be used to draw comparations but not conclusions.

Originally Posted by edrey

about how it work, first you need the ability of store magic that only if possible with training, then the chant must be related to some myth like the fly magic of liliana, oh wing of artemis or the eli lama sabatian of erica that it invoke that air of hate and despair, when they master it they can do it without the chant because the feeling is the important thing, it was mentioned in vol 8
about the harem, erica cause all of it, in vol 1 she said that she will accept other lover, then liliana came knowing about the other two and ena don't need to be explained
erica was thinking the she could control godou and the mages of japan with allowing yuri, she was mad about liliana but she was her cildhood friend who always toyed, ena don't need explanation right? and godou was to much slow so
godou is a king and his word is law(even he doesn't want to other will make it true)
erica was over confident but she is in love beyond help well the other are the same
the other girls knew about entering in a harem since the begining
so erica was overconfident and godou is a idiot who alredy accepted having harem so that's it, right?

It must be related to myth, right, but how exactly do they influence the magic? More than that, it was said that it's important to understand the meaning behind it, so then what is the relation between the meaning and the myth? With that said, what about making new spells? Wouldn't it be possible to use a certain feeling like, say, love? Would it work somehow if you don't link it to a myth? How exactly do you link it to a myth anyway? What would qualify and what wouldn't?

See, we have very little information on how it works that any attempt to answer it would be met with more questions. Asking is an option, but frankly, I don't really believe or trust that he will explain it clearly and satisfyingly in a way that doesn't seems like an infodrop lecture, the worst kind of exposition. That would change if he would have had appendices or omakes explaining it, but the chance's a bit low since it's an LN anyway.

I'm not complaining how the harem was formed. I'm complaining how the relationship progressed, the way it does and what the involved parties did didn't really match. It's too well for one where they didn't even put effort other than the physical parts. It felt hollow and weak to me, because they haven't really put any hardship in it, as in, an interpersonal conflict. And especially when you take into regards their supposed characterization and how they acted in the end. It has certain logics in it, but it's too convenient. It's really convenient for the possessive and manipulative girl to somehow become an understanding and accepting mother queen for Godou and the other girls, isn't it? So, where exactly was the process? I would have thought something like that would take a lot of events to go through first, not something that is overcomed with some pseudo-orgy kiss party, where you, you know, kiss the other girls right in front of your other girlfriend.

It's like sailing into the storm and yet the wind and waves inexplicably did next to no damages to the ship.

[edrey]

well, i can't deny that, you are complete right but they don't have many months , there are anyone who can't stole a girl from godou, the girls can't refuse godou because they are truly in love and he is a king, so the problem is with the four girls but they are more concerned about other girl joining than fighting between themself

about creating magic and the proces must be related to spirit vision and experiments with many failures, the origin must be related with the divine anscestors and their secrets

[azziz]

divine ancestor (fallen god)are one thing,but there's also their opposite:immortal who used to be human and now live in the netherworld;but i think it's prometheus who stole fire(=magic)from gods to give it to men and hermès who are responsible for human gaining magic-or at less learning how to use it,since if human created gods-in campione universe-and no the other way around,then they may always have it to begin with.

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by azziz

divine ancestor (fallen god)are one thing,but there's also their opposite:immortal who used to be human and now live in the netherworld;but i think it's prometheus who stole fire(=magic)from gods to give it to men and hermès who are responsible for human gaining magic-or at less learning how to use it,since if human created gods-in campione universe-and no the other way around,then they may always have it to begin with.

In Yhe Hero and the King it is said that some gods were born from human worship, which is confirmed in The War God of the Lance with the revelation of the origins of King Arthur, but there are also gods who were there before mankind was born, for example Susanoo stated that Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi has been his partner for eons and that could easily be more than 10.000 years at minimun. If you go with this reasoning it´s quite possible that indeed Prometheus and Hermes gave humans the knowledge of magic.

[Trung-t-rung]

In the first volume, it is said that magic is just a mere imitation of Authorities so this is my theory. Normal Magic uses things like prayer, spell words base on religion or myths, use up magic power like a tribute so the True Gods could offer help to make their magic come true, but their only use a fraction of their full power so it's weaker than Authorities which the Campione taken from the Gods at full power.

[Von Himmel]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

In the first volume, it is said that magic is just a mere imitation of Authorities so this is my theory. Normal Magic uses things like prayer, spell words base on religion or myths, use up magic power like a tribute so the True Gods could offer help to make their magic come true, but their only use a fraction of their full power so it's weaker than Authorities which the Campione taken from the Gods at full power.

Don't forget Sakura's silly chant that manage to conjure weak magic I agree with this theory; 'prayer' are most likely a medium to channel magics.

Considering how Sakura managed to make her magic works, my guess is that for someone to conjure magic they need to have latent magic potency and pray to god for their magic to work. After looking at spell words however, this prayer doesn't really need to be something like 'oh merciful god, please grant me the power to <insert something here>' but as long they chant something with connections to god they'll be able to do it (things like reading the bible while using magical energy for Erica and reading Ver scripture for Godou). Which then brings me to a theory where they might be using a portion of myth to conjure a phenomenon similar to it from the spirit realm (in Sakura's case, the myth might be something like 'if you pray hard enough, gods will grant your wishes) but I don't think that's correct either

...anyway, I don't think the explanation is that chuuni. Probably something simple like
>have magic power
>chant bible/scripture/whatever and use magic power as a fuel
>magic appeared!