AnimeSuki Forums

te2rx · 2011-05-23, 19:44

... was the name of a panel I did with a couple friends at Anime Central 2011 just last Saturday (May 21st). I got the whole thing up on YouTube all "remastered" with a good soundboard recording & clips that can be clearly viewed.

Anyway, the panel is about the animation of anime. We cover how it's done, who the big names are, and how it evolved from looking & moving like Disney to the unique thing we call "anime" today. This is a razor-sharp presentation and not a mind-numbing open discussion panel

, so we hope you enjoy.

(if you're already a big old sakuga fan, you might want to read this post about the panel instead)

1. Intro, & Nakamura: Grandmaster Fight Animator

2. The Japanese Animation Process in a Nutshell

3. Japanese Animation History, from Mori to Otsuka to Kanada

4. Hiroyuki Imaishi: Kanada to the Extreme

5. Ichiro Itano and the Missile Circus Revolution

6. Shinya Ohira's Surrealist Animation

7. Mitsuo Iso and New Realism

8. Web Generation Animators

9. Why Animation Matters in Anime Storytelling

Tri-ring · 2011-05-24, 00:41

Great presentation, I watched it all the way through.
"作画(sakuga)" or "how to draw" really does have variation in style and I guess there is no single interpretation to it since it is a form of art and like it or not one form gets stale as another new form comes into light.

solomon · 2011-05-24, 06:13

Frankly one of the edges of the Japanese production process is that they allow stateside animators to still work on their shows instead of just outsourcing everything like they do in the west.

Also guys Like Mitsuo Iso, Hideki Himasu, Toshiyuki Inoue and others show that realistic animation can work (it's kinda taboo in Western Circles).

That allows for certain great "sakuga" episodes on TV shows as we see with Naruto among others.

While I do think the Disney tradition of recording the vocal tracks first and animating to that is better I can understand why they don't due so (likely due to budget reasons).

te2rx · 2011-05-24, 06:38

and/or time constraints... I think anime voiceover sessions are typically done over work-in-progress animatics (key-complete scenes, thumbnail sketches, etc.) so it shows that they're trying to parallelize the production.

Decagon · 2011-05-26, 05:16

That was very informative! It would have been nice to see something this well put together at Anime Expo.

ahelo · 2011-05-26, 06:42

The scene in part 8 in Naruto was actually very infamous for looking really bad.

te2rx · 2011-05-26, 09:22

yeah, sometimes sakuga is controversial. I remember Colin showing me that entire Naruto episode, and I was thinking "Cool, but man, is it ever rough...". Most anime, esp. week-by-week things like Naruto, are made in a mad rush.

We wanted to show that aspect of sakuga, because the common misconception is the animation suddenly "got cheap" or "was drawn by monkeys" and etc., where instead it's an individualistic or auteur animator doing his thing, and either:
1. The animation director (key animation supervisor) was missing in action / didn't feel the need to hyper-correct it.
2. There was simply no time for a substantial clean-up.
3. Due to the culture of the studio and the particular animation team, the animator's style was deliberately retained, either for artistic expression or to appease "sakuga" fans in particular.

solomon · 2011-05-26, 13:22

You can have rough drawings if the underdrawing is solid generally. Norio Matsumoto can draw so even when his work does the squash and stretch deal you can see he has a good grasp of form.

Now the 9th ONE PIECE movie on the other hand. That was all rough keys and no clean up, THAT bothered me.

Tri-ring · 2011-05-27, 05:28

@te2rx

I have a question, although I do not know which was earlier but I seem to remember watching the so called "Missile Circus" in the TV version of "Urusei Yatsura" does it have any correlation?

Raiga · 2011-05-27, 13:48

Very informative and very interesting! Enjoyed watching this a lot. ^^ A lot of the scenes were familiar and it was cool knowing who was behind them and where some of the names I recognized drew there influence or first became famous.

Arabesque · 2011-05-27, 14:11

(say, you wouldn't happen to be neilworms on twitter would you :P?)

I got linked to this panel on twitter and have watched through it all in one sitting. All great from start to finish, even though I new most of the info some was new and other was very intresting to learn and hear how people who knew about the way animation was made talk about it. Really great stuff.

Only problem was it was too short

There is still a lot of animators with their unique styles (Takeshi Koike for one) and the positions of the Director and the Storyboarder and their importance weren't touched upon (but again it would've taken too much time)

It was really a great panel regardless. I hope you guys make another one, I would love to hear you on other topics about animation

Raiga · 2011-05-27, 17:16

Oh yeah, I've wondered this before, and it's probably one of the main reasons I'm not a sakuga-ota even though I find it interesting...

How do people know which scene is done by whom? I've always wondered that... I mean the credits list the animators, of course, but (maybe I've never read credits close enough) do they actually tell you who did what part? Or is it mostly reliant on a fan's good eye for style to figure out who did what?

Westlo · 2011-05-27, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahelo

The scene in part 8 in Naruto was actually very infamous for looking really bad.

I agree it looks rough but most Naruto fans complained about Norio Matsumoto's Sasuke vs Naruto fight from Episode 133 (or whatever it was) in the original series as well... and that is leagues better.

I remember arguing with so many people on forums who said the "animation" in the previous episode was better lol....

Oh and that episode is much better than the Pain one.

Arabesque · 2011-05-28, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiga

Oh yeah, I've wondered this before, and it's probably one of the main reasons I'm not a sakuga-ota even though I find it interesting...

How do people know which scene is done by whom? I've always wondered that... I mean the credits list the animators, of course, but (maybe I've never read credits close enough) do they actually tell you who did what part? Or is it mostly reliant on a fan's good eye for style to figure out who did what?

A good eye plays a part in it at first, but eventually the animators will reveal the information via their twitter accounts, interviews, commentaries on DVD/BD, events, artwork books etc.

So it usually notice an animators style and then wait until someone official confirms it.

Last Sinner · 2011-05-28, 01:21

Interesting panel. The club I help run in Adelaide is doing a couple of panels in the local convention, AVCON, in July (panels will be A History of Anime and G is For Robots: An Introduction). Watching yours was helpful to see things from a different perspective.

Kakkou · 2011-05-28, 06:16

That was a great presentation. I always love watching stuff like this and learning more about the animators who deserve all the credit they can get for their efforts and creativity.

neilworms · 2011-05-28, 18:48

Quote:

(say, you wouldn't happen to be neilworms on twitter would you :P?)

Nope, that's me ;-). I'm glad everyone is enjoying the panel, and learning a bit more about anime and animation in the process.

2011-05-23, 19:44	Link #1
te2rx Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago area, IL Age: 40	"That Scene was Awesome: Japan's Iron Animators" (sakuga anime) ... was the name of a panel I did with a couple friends at Anime Central 2011 just last Saturday (May 21st). I got the whole thing up on YouTube all "remastered" with a good soundboard recording & clips that can be clearly viewed. Anyway, the panel is about the animation of anime. We cover how it's done, who the big names are, and how it evolved from looking & moving like Disney to the unique thing we call "anime" today. This is a razor-sharp presentation and not a mind-numbing open discussion panel , so we hope you enjoy. (if you're already a big old sakuga fan, you might want to read this post about the panel instead) 1. Intro, & Nakamura: Grandmaster Fight Animator 2. The Japanese Animation Process in a Nutshell 3. Japanese Animation History, from Mori to Otsuka to Kanada 4. Hiroyuki Imaishi: Kanada to the Extreme 5. Ichiro Itano and the Missile Circus Revolution 6. Shinya Ohira's Surrealist Animation 7. Mitsuo Iso and New Realism 8. Web Generation Animators 9. Why Animation Matters in Anime Storytelling

2011-05-26, 06:42	Link #6
ahelo Criminal Unrequitor Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2010	The scene in part 8 in Naruto was actually very infamous for looking really bad. __________________ Traveler on Revenge / Ahelo Sigs / Saimoe Report! Signature by ganbaru

2011-05-27, 13:48	Link #10
Raiga tl;dr Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 32	Very informative and very interesting! Enjoyed watching this a lot. ^^ A lot of the scenes were familiar and it was cool knowing who was behind them and where some of the names I recognized drew there influence or first became famous. __________________

2011-05-27, 14:11	Link #11
Arabesque Licensed Hunter-a-holic Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United Kingdom Age: 35	(say, you wouldn't happen to be neilworms on twitter would you :P?) I got linked to this panel on twitter and have watched through it all in one sitting. All great from start to finish, even though I new most of the info some was new and other was very intresting to learn and hear how people who knew about the way animation was made talk about it. Really great stuff. Only problem was it was too short There is still a lot of animators with their unique styles (Takeshi Koike for one) and the positions of the Director and the Storyboarder and their importance weren't touched upon (but again it would've taken too much time) It was really a great panel regardless. I hope you guys make another one, I would love to hear you on other topics about animation __________________

2011-05-27, 17:16	Link #12
Raiga tl;dr Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 32	Oh yeah, I've wondered this before, and it's probably one of the main reasons I'm not a sakuga-ota even though I find it interesting... How do people know which scene is done by whom? I've always wondered that... I mean the credits list the animators, of course, but (maybe I've never read credits close enough) do they actually tell you who did what part? Or is it mostly reliant on a fan's good eye for style to figure out who did what? __________________

2011-05-24, 00:41	Link #2
Tri-ring Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Land of the rising sun	Great presentation, I watched it all the way through. "作画(sakuga)" or "how to draw" really does have variation in style and I guess there is no single interpretation to it since it is a form of art and like it or not one form gets stale as another new form comes into light.

2011-05-24, 06:13	Link #3
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Frankly one of the edges of the Japanese production process is that they allow stateside animators to still work on their shows instead of just outsourcing everything like they do in the west. Also guys Like Mitsuo Iso, Hideki Himasu, Toshiyuki Inoue and others show that realistic animation can work (it's kinda taboo in Western Circles). That allows for certain great "sakuga" episodes on TV shows as we see with Naruto among others. While I do think the Disney tradition of recording the vocal tracks first and animating to that is better I can understand why they don't due so (likely due to budget reasons).

2011-05-24, 06:38	Link #4
te2rx Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago area, IL Age: 40	and/or time constraints... I think anime voiceover sessions are typically done over work-in-progress animatics (key-complete scenes, thumbnail sketches, etc.) so it shows that they're trying to parallelize the production.

2011-05-26, 05:16	Link #5
Decagon This was meaningless Scanlator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Not on this site no more. Age: 36	That was very informative! It would have been nice to see something this well put together at Anime Expo.

2011-05-26, 09:22	Link #7
te2rx Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago area, IL Age: 40	yeah, sometimes sakuga is controversial. I remember Colin showing me that entire Naruto episode, and I was thinking "Cool, but man, is it ever rough...". Most anime, esp. week-by-week things like Naruto, are made in a mad rush. We wanted to show that aspect of sakuga, because the common misconception is the animation suddenly "got cheap" or "was drawn by monkeys" and etc., where instead it's an individualistic or auteur animator doing his thing, and either: 1. The animation director (key animation supervisor) was missing in action / didn't feel the need to hyper-correct it. 2. There was simply no time for a substantial clean-up. 3. Due to the culture of the studio and the particular animation team, the animator's style was deliberately retained, either for artistic expression or to appease "sakuga" fans in particular.

2011-05-26, 13:22	Link #8
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	You can have rough drawings if the underdrawing is solid generally. Norio Matsumoto can draw so even when his work does the squash and stretch deal you can see he has a good grasp of form. Now the 9th ONE PIECE movie on the other hand. That was all rough keys and no clean up, THAT bothered me.

2011-05-27, 05:28	Link #9
Tri-ring Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Land of the rising sun	@te2rx I have a question, although I do not know which was earlier but I seem to remember watching the so called "Missile Circus" in the TV version of "Urusei Yatsura" does it have any correlation?

2011-05-28, 01:21	Link #15
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Interesting panel. The club I help run in Adelaide is doing a couple of panels in the local convention, AVCON, in July (panels will be A History of Anime and G is For Robots: An Introduction). Watching yours was helpful to see things from a different perspective. __________________

2011-05-28, 06:16	Link #16
Kakkou Tch. Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Australia	That was a great presentation. I always love watching stuff like this and learning more about the animators who deserve all the credit they can get for their efforts and creativity.