Romance in Gundam AGE

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ttdestroy

And while I'm here is Emily so stupid as to believe she would have ended up with Flit if Yurin had survived? I don't see any affection between Flit and Emily as adults either, it looks like to Flit, Emily was a convenient baby making machine so someone could inherit the gundam. There I said it, I effing went there.

Are you really going to bring this horse-poop bitterness-over-yurin-emily-bashing nonsense up again? Fine. Let's have a look:

1. Emily isn't stupid. She's been shafted as to screen time, but when exactly, at what precise minute and second of a specific episode has she been shown to be of lesser intelligence? Do please provide reference. Oh, right. You can't.

2. Whether or not she would've ended up with Flit if Yurin had lived? Most likely. Why? Because Flit was 14 and infatuated with a girl he knew for maybe 2 weeks before she died. He was never shown to be undyingly in love with her and that is a fact. Could they have come to love each other? Absolutely.
Could they have begun a romance? Yes.
Is it likely they could've sustained a long-term relationship? No. Apart from a contrived "X-Rounder" connection and an infatuation, they had nothing going for each other. Yurin was sweet, but nothing else. She was selfish, whiny, whimsical, without initiative, drive or ambition
Flit on the other hand is a motivated, driven, highly intelligent individual with an ambition in life. For a while, he would've enjoyed having a cute girl on his arm. As he grew up, he would've needed more and Yurin would've been dissatisfied that she's not the center of his universe and that he has a life besides her. She is not the person he could've built a stable family with and he is not the guy who would've dedicated his life to being there for her. Basic rules of lasting relationships. Learn them.
She would've done well with someone like Shinn as a romantic partner, actually... u.u

3. You don't see any affection? Emily is a breeding machine? Are you actually serious? What does an adult relationship look like in your mind? Making out in the hallway and slobbering all over each other all the time? I hate to break it to you, but adults are normally much less obviously affectionate and express themselves privately. We've only seen Emily and Flit together at a family dinner. Do your parents normally hold hands and exchange fluids during meals then? They behaved like any healthy, stable family would have.

So if you're going to vent your frustration about your pairing not working out, please do so. I totally understand. BUT there's no need to bash. Ever*. Real arguments are good.

* (except if the character in question is really really horrible. Cersei Lannister horrible.)

[~BC~]

there's no need to bash. Ever*.

You do realize there's a lot in your post that could be seen as bashing, right?

On the actual topic, it'd be neat if the director used the precedent of Flit/Emily as a means of trolling the audience later. At the very least I might hope for it if we don't see Asem and Romary interacting again soon. It's almost as if the two have had some kind of falling out as a result of the graduation incident and neither knows how to approach the other.

As for Alisa, I admit I like her interactions with Asem a lot more than Romary's; the benefit to not having development lost due to timeskips. Still, I'm not convinced she sees Asem that way.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

You do realize there's a lot in your post that could be seen as bashing, right?

Yep, I reacted a bit aggressively, in line with the way the post I replied to was scripted
And Yurin fans have been way out of line on this topic since the beginning of time, so patience is a bit low.
However, if you're referring to something I said about a character, I disagree. I don't dislike Yurin, I didn't cuss her (or Flit), I didn't say anything baseless or that was meant negatively. Yes, I dissected their relationship and personalities based on what we have seen. But that's not bashing, it's analysis

On the actual topic, it'd be neat if the director used the precedent of Flit/Emily as a means of trolling the audience later.

In what way?

As for Alisa, I admit I like her interactions with Asem a lot more than Romary's; the benefit to not having development lost due to timeskips. Still, I'm not convinced she sees Asem that way.

I agree that Romary isn't very interesting We've seen some sides to her that I would like to see more of such as her relative fearlessness during previous battle situations, but she's a very typical girly girl so far. She's not even up to par with previous bridge bunnies
actually. They need to give the female leads better roles and development in this show, it's been sad so far.
As for Arisa, I'm with you. In terms of romance, this generation suffers from the same illness that generation 1 did... having the interactions between the main couples happen off-screen. I don't get why they do that, it just upsets people.
That said, I also don't think either Asem or Arisa are romantically interested and I'd prefer if they were best buddies, because of how awesome that would be

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

However, if you're referring to something I said about a character, I disagree. I don't dislike Yurin, I didn't cuss her (or Flit), I didn't say anything baseless or that was meant negatively. Yes, I dissected their relationship and personalities based on what we have seen. But that's not bashing, it's analysis

The way I see it the "relationship" was barely developed so any dissecting strikes me more as personal speculation than anything else. And yeah, terms like whiny and selfish do sound negative especially when grouped together but I don't think she had enough screen time to even earn those descriptors. To each his/her own, I guess.

In what way?

It's just that a lot of the expectation for the Flit/Emily pairing had more to do with how Asem looked and less to do with actual on screen development. Hino knowing that, decides to subvert expectations and hooks Asem up with some brown-haired X-rounder chick he meets while stranded on an island. You know, play around with the audience's pre-established beliefs. Preferably with some decent development of course.

More importantly though, it just seems like things would be more interesting if we didn't already know who hooked up with who. Why even bother with a Romary->Zeheart angle when not only do they have minimal chances of interacting, we know it will come to nothing in the end. If they need someone who will encourage Asem to not give up on Zeheart that angle would still work on the level of friendship. And the lack of Asem/Romary interactions just adds to things. Why bother with romance if you're just going to half ass it.

I agree that Romary isn't very interesting We've seen some sides to her that I would like to see more of such as her relative fearlessness during previous battle situations, but she's a very typical girly girl so far. She's not even up to par with previous bridge bunnies
actually. They need to give the female leads better roles and development in this show, it's been sad so far.
As for Arisa, I'm with you. In terms of romance, this generation suffers from the same illness that generation 1 did... having the interactions between the main couples happen off-screen. I don't get why they do that, it just upsets people.
That said, I also don't think either Asem or Arisa are romantically interested and I'd prefer if they were best buddies, because of how awesome that would be

I don't know, that "fearlessness" struck me more as a lack of common sense. There was nothing she could do but be a liability. I'd also hate to see her bring that aspect to a fight in outer space especially with people like Decil up and about.
At least if she spoke to Asem she could be a confidant and we could maybe learn more about how she thinks.

Not gonna lie though, if there had to be romance this generation I'd prefer AlisaxAsem.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

The way I see it the "relationship" was barely developed so any dissecting strikes me more as personal speculation than anything else. And yeah, terms like whiny and selfish do sound negative especially when grouped together but I don't think she had enough screen time to even earn those descriptors. To each his/her own, I guess.

I agree, but the same goes for Emily, so the constant whining about how she's just leftovers is at least equally baseless as claiming Yurin was the love of Flit's life (or not) as all development between them has happened off screen or in the ending of all places. Fact is we don't know what went down between Flit and Emily.
As for Yurin being whiny and selfish, that's based on what happened on-screen:
- her reaction to being taken in and cared for.
- her reaction to Desil, going with him, endangering lives, taking lives, potentially endangering Flit and/or his comrades just so she can see him again. I've said it before, but that is nothing but selfish. And it doesn't matter if he threatened to kill her (she should've opted for that, as any heroine would've. And no, I'm not expecting too much, that's even the law in my parts), or threatened to kill him (as if that wasn't his plan regardless of what she decides/she could make it worse for him- which is exactly what she has done).

People don't want to see it, and call it more endearing terms, but in the end, whiny and selfish is what it is.
I wanted to root for her, believe me. I thought she was going to be much more awesome based on her first appearance. But alas, it wasn't meant to be...

Hino knowing that, decides to subvert expectations and hooks Asem up with some brown-haired X-rounder chick he meets while stranded on an island. You know, play around with the audience's pre-established beliefs. Preferably with some decent development of course.

I think you give Hino too much credit on this point. What we saw was for plot purposes, giving Flit an additional reason to hate the Veigans, setting up his (presumed) rivalry with Desil. And to add some drama of course. There was so subversion of expectations, because romance was never important to this show and most people realised that, even those who rooted for Yurin... This show isn't as complicated as to aim for something like that, it doesn't surprise or mislead... this is pretty obvious from how barely anyone bothers to speculate. If we can say one thing about AGE then it's how this show is very, very linear and delivers what is expected.

More importantly though, it just seems like things would be more interesting if we didn't already know who hooked up with who.

Of course it would be, and that's one of the reasons why there's relatively little discussion. We know what's going to happen in the end, minus details. But this show isn't going for that, let's just face it.
But there's a good reason why they bother actually. Because that's how a story would naturally progress, if we didn't have this info already. They'd have alternate love interests and people would be guessing. It makes sense that Hino can't remove these angles just because we already know. I mean, let's say your grandma is telling you the story of her life and you know she ends up with grandpa. Doesn't mean, there weren't other people in her life. It would make for a very strange story, if they took out alternate love interests just because we know where it's going.

I don't know, that "fearlessness" struck me more as a lack of common sense. There was nothing she could do but be a liability.

lol, I was trying to give it a positive angle, don't ruin it by calling it as it is While I agree with how the show presents alternate options, what it doesn't do well is developing the actual female leads. I mean, it gigantically fails at that, actually. Shame.

Not gonna lie though, if there had to be romance this generation I'd prefer AlisaxAsem.

I don't know, I'm beyond caring who ends up with who, it's just a plot device in this show, sadly.
I'd be quite happy if we got to see some AsemxArisa friendship since we already have the ZehartxRomary angle in this arc. Would seem unnecessary to make Arisa romantically interested, and a female that's just sisterly would be nice too.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

I agree, but the same goes for Emily, so the constant whining about how she's just leftovers is at least equally baseless as claiming Yurin was the love of Flit's life (or not) as all development between them has happened off screen or in the ending of all places. Fact is we don't know what went down between Flit and Emily.
As for Yurin being whiny and selfish, that's based on what happened on-screen:
- her reaction to being taken in and cared for.
- her reaction to Desil, going with him, endangering lives, taking lives, potentially endangering Flit and/or his comrades just so she can see him again. I've said it before, but that is nothing but selfish. And it doesn't matter if he threatened to kill her (she should've opted for that, as any heroine would've. And no, I'm not expecting too much, that's even the law in my parts), or threatened to kill him (as if that wasn't his plan regardless of what she decides/she could make it worse for him- which is exactly what she has done).

People don't want to see it, and call it more endearing terms, but in the end, whiny and selfish is what it is.
I wanted to root for her, believe me. I thought she was going to be much more awesome based on her first appearance. But alas, it wasn't meant to be...

Those are some pretty high standards for an adolescent. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think you give Hino too much credit on this point. What we saw was for plot purposes, giving Flit an additional reason to hate the Veigans, setting up his (presumed) rivalry with Desil. And to add some drama of course. There was so subversion of expectations, because romance was never important to this show and most people realised that, even those who rooted for Yurin... This show isn't as complicated as to aim for something like that, it doesn't surprise or mislead... this is pretty obvious from how barely anyone bothers to speculate. If we can say one thing about AGE then it's how this show is very, very linear and delivers what is expected.

You misunderstood me. What I was describing was more of a hypothetical situation; I agree Hino isn't likely to go there. But hey wishful thinking. It's not like I'm going to flip if the obvious happens.

But there's a good reason why they bother actually. Because that's how a story would naturally progress, if we didn't have this info already. They'd have alternate love interests and people would be guessing. It makes sense that Hino can't remove these angles just because we already know.

I disagree. Romance doesn't always have to be part of a story.

I mean, let's say your grandma is telling you the story of her life and you know she ends up with grandpa. Doesn't mean, there weren't other people in her life. It would make for a very strange story, if they took out alternate love interests just because we know where it's going.

The difference is grandma's story would fill in all the details and be filled with emotion.

At least we agree on how this show treats it's female characters. I'd gladly take no romance in favor of better female character development.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

Those are some pretty high standards for an adolescent. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well, "adolescent" is pretty relative in Gundam. They're all claimed to be teenagers while fulfilling adult roles with the efficiency of adults throughout the franchise and this especially applies to females and female leads. In examples, the likes of Relena (15), Lacus (16), Kihel (17), Audrey/Mineva (16), Fa (17), probably also Sayla (17) and Lalah (17) and especially EMILY herself (14) would all be examples of adolescents that would've adhered to said standards...

You misunderstood me. What I was describing was more of a hypothetical situation; I agree Hino isn't likely to go there. But hey wishful thinking. It's not like I'm going to flip if the obvious happens.

Yep, I know what you mean, I was hoping for more depth the whole time, but I've started to accept that Age is never going to deliver in this department... :/ it would be interesting if something (anything) happened with the whole EmilyxFlit situation... I'd be happy if it turned out a scam or turned out to be the most caring relationship ever- anything that adds depth to the character relations works for me.

I disagree. Romance doesn't always have to be part of a story.

That's not what I said. I said it would be strange to not include friendships or love interests just because we know how it's going to end. Normal people usually have a number of relationships or crushes in their life so in this regard, Age is not doing wrong by introducing the Zehart x Romary angle. It would be weirder if she was just into Asem all her life.

The difference is grandma's story would fill in all the details and be filled with emotion.

I totally agree xD It's weird, I sound as if I'm defending this show... I'm not.
I couldn't care less if the entire cast accidentally died in a pudding factory explosion and Dique became President. Cool with me.
Granted, Age 2 is better but in terms of getting me emotionally invested in anyone, it fails like no show in the franchise has ever before

At least we agree on how this show treats it's female characters. I'd gladly take no romance in favor of better female character development.

Oh god, definitely. In all fairness, the males aren't exactly getting stellar development either, so it's a problem of how the show treats everyone. Especially with Age 2 it's now doing most things right superficially but it fails on the details and thus can't convey emotion, as you said...

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Well, "adolescent" is pretty relative in Gundam. They're all claimed to be teenagers while fulfilling adult roles with the efficiency of adults throughout the franchise and this especially applies to females and female leads. In examples, the likes of Relena (15), Lacus (16), Kihel (17), Audrey/Mineva (16), Fa (17), probably also Sayla (17) and Lalah (17) and especially EMILY herself (14) would all be examples of adolescents that would've adhered to said standards...

I don't think it's really fair or even reasonable to expect all people to behave in the same way in extenuating circumstances; let alone teenagers. Not to mention the social titles/status half of those examples held which played a part in how they were able to deal with things.

That's not what I said. I said it would be strange to not include friendships or love interests just because we know how it's going to end. Normal people usually have a number of relationships or crushes in their life so in this regard, Age is not doing wrong by introducing the Zehart x Romary angle. It would be weirder if she was just into Asem all her life.

It's not like the Asem compilation is going to take up the whole of his life. Though it would be an interesting twist if it extended into his mid or late 20's and we got to see a bit of his life with Romary and child Kio.

I totally agree xD It's weird, I sound as if I'm defending this show... I'm not.

Hope I don't sound like I'm bashing it. It's more a critique of what I consider one of the show's weaknesses. Ultimately though, I'm actually staying somewhat optimistic.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I don't think it's really fair or even reasonable to expect all people to behave in the same way in extenuating circumstances; let alone teenagers. Not to mention the social titles/status half of those examples held which played a part in how they were able to deal with things.

Well, I usually agree with you (except Gundam teenager /=teenager), and I'm not saying Yurin acted terribly or that I fault her. But her supporters always bash on Emily (the only thing she can be faulted for she recognised and corrected-growth) and ignore Yurin's flaws (which she didn't correct until her death- no growth). It's true we don't know how Yurin grew up. That said, these traits or lack thereof occur in all social backgrounds.

Point is, I was just pointing out that Yurin isn't the flawless angel her fans make her out to be.

It's not like the Asem compilation is going to take up the whole of his life. Though it would be an interesting twist if it extended into his mid or late 20's and we got to see a bit of his life with Romary and child Kio.

That would be quite a nice twist. Sadly, another timeskip would be difficult, but I'd be happy with anything that properly develops their relationship. I think it was a grave oversight to develop the main relationships so much off screen and t focus on other relations... I mean, it's just really awkward in terms of story flow.

Hope I don't sound like I'm bashing it. It's more a critique of what I consider one of the show's weaknesses. Ultimately though, I'm actually staying somewhat optimistic.

Not at all.
I'm happy when people are open to recognising this shows flaws, as too many people are hell-bent on only focussing on the good parts. The show has many weaknesses, and character development is one of the really big ones. Although they got quite a bit better compared to part 1 xD

[casval cehack]

Finally, a Romary scene...

Spoiler for ep 21:

But clearly now (and as predicted before), she's for Zeheart.

But atleast a new pair...

Spoiler for ep 21:

The girl mechanic, Remi Ruth is not Dique's wife?

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by casval cehack

Finally, a Romary scene...

Spoiler for ep 21:

But clearly now (and as predicted before), she's for Zeheart.

But atleast a new pair...

Spoiler for ep 21:

The girl mechanic, Remi Ruth is not Dique's wife?

XD Well at least that puts that weird "Kio could be Arisa's son because her mom has brown hair and more than vaguely resembles Flit's mom" theory to sleep.

Seeing her in that shot, Remi actually looks way too young to be the mom of a teenager, but it's hard to tell- the art style doesn't convey age so well.

As for Romary, I'm a little glad she's going for Zehart as the initial setup with the possible crush on Asem was a bit too straightforward for my taste.
Doesn't mean she'll settle for second best with Asem in the end, just that she's young and exploring her options
And I'm glad to see a girl getting any scenes at all. Yay, finally!

[~BC~]

Well at least that puts that weird "Kio could be Arisa's son because her mom has brown hair and more than vaguely resembles Flit's mom" theory to sleep.

It works on the detractors to that theory as well. Her mother could still be similar to Kio.

Though I wonder aside from the opening was there ever any official scan pegging her as Alisa's mom?

[monster]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

As for Romary, I'm a little glad she's going for Zehart as the initial setup with the possible crush on Asem was a bit too straightforward for my taste.

Eh, Romary always seemed more interested with Zeheart anyway from my perspective.

[~BC~]

I haven't seen the episode yet but

Spoiler for ep. 21:

did she say she was in love with Zeheart or simply express a desire to speak with him?

The latter is an understandable sentiment to have considering how abruptly he exited her life. I've always suspected she felt more for him myself.

[Meltyred]

It's really awkward, cause

Spoiler for Episode 21:

Asuno was talking about how Zeheart had changed, then Romary softly said, that's good.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Meltyred

It's really awkward, cause

Spoiler for Episode 21:

Asuno was talking about how Zeheart had changed, then Romary softly said, that's good.

She looks suspicious doing it too...

Spoiler:

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

It works on the detractors to that theory as well. Her mother could still be similar to Kio.

Though I wonder aside from the opening was there ever any official scan pegging her as Alisa's mom?

Sure,her mother could be the one they clones Romary from...
No, I don't think so. I think the pic in the opening was the only pic of her ever, and people (including myself) just jumped to conclusions xD

Originally Posted by brightman

She looks suspicious doing it too...

Spoiler:

JESUS. I have to see the episode first, but that looks a bit evil

[kk2extreme]

I am thinking that the 3rd gen could involves a enemy love story somehow

[Roloko vi Britannia]

Originally Posted by brightman

She looks suspicious doing it too...

Spoiler:

Spoiler for :

Possible yandere?

[Nightengale]

*sees the Romary talk*

... Whut?

Am I the only one reading it differently? I saw Romary's 'ii na' as a sign of envy/jealousy towards Asemu, in that she was envious that Asemu got to talk to Zeheart.