To Aru Kagaku no Railgun archived manga discussion

[Shadow5YA]

Are those... machines coming out of Dolly's crotch?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Are those... machines coming out of Dolly's crotch?

... Lol, and to the comment two posts above, yes I agree with you. I don't think it takes her very much of her power to do what she did as long as she uses Exterior... what I'm confused about is this: why is she afraid of Gensei using Exterior... In fact, how would Gensei use Exterior? I thought for a while this is part of some other huge plot like Sisters plot was for Mikoto that Crowley will use, but I'm still not completely sure yet I guess... It seems to me like things are getting crazy. I hope 60 comes out soon especially since it is already out right? Did JS06 say when chapter 61 is coming out in Japanese when he posted the spoilers for chapter 60?... or is it always on the 27th of each month?

[SoloPanda]

Ok i just checked out the chinese 60.

Flashback arc Misaki was freaking awsome

Spoiler for Summary from what i can tell.:

Dolly got sick and it appears they tried to take her away after Misaki got attached, or dispose of her. Basicly they said all that with the same look as they had while disposing of the Misaka clones. So they had a meeting to discuss progress it seems and Misaki hijacked the whole freaking base. Looked like she got every researcher in the place, i think to keep Dolly safe. then bumps back to present time. Saten and the other girl leave the underground and Touma comes running up with the charm. cue worst timeing ever... well not in Touma's case but whatever. So looks like he's gonna have a little run in with a female mage... not that it's a surprise.

some of this is probably off cause i suck at chinese check dm5 or something if you wanna see it.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

Ok i just checked out the chinese 60.

Flashback arc Misaki was freaking awsome

Spoiler for Summary from what i can tell.:

Dolly got sick and it appears they tried to take her away after Misaki got attached, or dispose of her. Basicly they said all that with the same look as they had while disposing of the Misaka clones. So they had a meeting to discuss progress it seems and Misaki hijacked the whole freaking base. Looked like she got every researcher in the place, i think to keep Dolly safe. then bumps back to present time. Saten and the other girl leave the underground and Touma comes running up with the charm. cue worst timeing ever... well not in Touma's case but whatever. So looks like he's gonna have a little run in with a female mage... not that it's a surprise.

some of this is probably off cause i suck at chinese check dm5 or something if you wanna see it.

Spoiler:

my impression was that Dolly had die because of her condition and the discussion of the researcher was disposing of Misaki when they nolonger need her

[dniv]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

Ok i just checked out the chinese 60.

Flashback arc Misaki was freaking awsome

Spoiler for Summary from what i can tell.:

Dolly got sick and it appears they tried to take her away after Misaki got attached, or dispose of her. Basicly they said all that with the same look as they had while disposing of the Misaka clones. So they had a meeting to discuss progress it seems and Misaki hijacked the whole freaking base. Looked like she got every researcher in the place, i think to keep Dolly safe. then bumps back to present time. Saten and the other girl leave the underground and Touma comes running up with the charm. cue worst timeing ever... well not in Touma's case but whatever. So looks like he's gonna have a little run in with a female mage... not that it's a surprise.

some of this is probably off cause i suck at chinese check dm5 or something if you wanna see it.

Spoiler:

That was a super amazing flashback. I would really like to see that concluded in the next chapter. That was pretty cool. I sincerely hope that Kamijou's presence with Saten and Xochitl will have some significance.

I actually believe there is a good chance that Xochitl will notice who Touma is, because Eztali was sent there originally to keep watch of Touma, so since Return of the winged one knows about him... she she should have some sort of confrontation with him... maybe?

Probably not... because Railgun readers don't really know that much about it. But Eztali/Unabara vs. Touma was a pretty important Misaka arc in Index...

I want to see more Misaki for sure now. She seems to have a pretty tragic past for all those people who were saying she seems to have had it easy. I can see why she doesn't trust other people that much now and why she is not that friendly... that's rather unfortunate.

[whitecloud]

I hope they will explain how misaki know touma in the flashback....maybe misaki know touma because of this event...

[zaeraal]

RAW and translation is out.

Spoilers

Spoiler for spoilers

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

PS: I find it funny for Touma to say "Is today just Kamijou-san's lucky day?" Maybe the charm really brings luck

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

RAW and translation is out.

Spoilers

Spoiler for spoilers

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

PS: I find it funny for Touma to say "Is today just Kamijou-san's lucky day?" Maybe the charm really brings luck

Spoiler:

Wait, so Misaki might also be taping into the Network?!

[OverNOut]

So what were the machine parts for?

[zaeraal]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Spoiler:

Wait, so Misaki might also be taping into the Network?!

Yes, that's most likely.
I came up with a theory, that she might have a different set of clones for Exterior..
..But after seeing her power output after she used Exterior, I am absolutely sure she uses Misaka Sisters.

Spoiler for Misaki's plan:

My theory for her plan is that she might want to replace the Misaka she captured with Dolly.

Scientists mentioned there were more of them when Dolly died.
And if they were linked back there too, or they copied Dolly's mind to another Clone, she might still live within the Network.

I believe she plans to find her Dolly in the Network and reprogram the Sister.

Originally Posted by OverNOut

So what were the machine parts for?

I believe machine that extended her lifespan
She was a prototype, they probably didn't had yet normal medicine to extend her lifespan as they have now for Misaka Sisters.

[Haigon]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

RAW and translation is out.

Spoilers

Spoiler for spoilers

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

PS: I find it funny for Touma to say "Is today just Kamijou-san's lucky day?" Maybe the charm really brings luck

Spoiler:

What? There are more? So who's Full-Tunning? The final product of the Dolly clones or they were an completly distinct projects?

[whitecloud]

Full tuning is most likely the dolly? Which explain why it cannot accesses misaka network so easily, eventhough since its the prototype it means it is higher in the hierarchy than last order which explain an incident where full tuning managed to take control of last order for a moment

Anyway...more flashback...I'm sure the answer to misaki attitude to touma is this event! Eventhough Kamachi could throw us more screw ball...

[Haigon]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Full tuning is most likely the dolly? Which explain why it cannot accesses misaka network so easily, eventhough since its the prototype it means it is higher in the hierarchy than last order which explain an incident where full tuning managed to take control of last order for a moment

Anyway...more flashback...I'm sure the answer to misaki attitude to touma is this event! Eventhough Kamachi could throw us more screw ball...

That could be the "collective consciousness" of the network rather than an individual.

[zaeraal]

^I agree with whitecloud, that Full Tuning might be the final Dolly, which was the base for Sisters.
One that was not modified by Testament Brainwashing and already has powers.

Spoiler for My edited theory:

Maybe Misaki is searching for it through Sister Network, instead of trying to find the Dolly's mind through it

I guess we will have to wait for future chapters to fully understand her motives.
We still have many unknown variables like the researcher that is helping Misaki, the "client" they mentioned, why Misaki stopped doing what she was doing with the Sister and went after Gensei,Touma-Saten-Xochitl..

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

^I agree with whitecloud, that Full Tuning might be the final Dolly, which was the base for Sisters.
One that was not modified by Testament Brainwashing and already has powers.

Spoiler for My edited theory:

Maybe Misaki is searching for it through Sister Network, instead of trying to find the Dolly's mind through it

I guess we will have to wait for future chapters to fully understand her motives.
We still have many unknown variables like the researcher that is helping Misaki, the "client" they mentioned, why Misaki stopped doing what she was doing with the Sister and went after Gensei,Touma-Saten-Xochitl..

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand any of that... I had two questions. First, where do you get the translations before the chapter comes out? I haven't been able to figure this out. Second, it sounds like your old theory was pretty the same as my old theory lolz so my question was:

Spoiler:

What exactly do you mean dolly was a clone? Was she a clone of Shokuhou or Mikoto? Furthermore, since you say this was part of a cloning project, there were multiple Dolly's, so there were multiple clones? Therefore, this isn't full-tuning right, or are you saying the dolly we say was the final clone and was full-tuning? Are these multiple clones of Shokuhou or of Dolly, the original? But they called her prototype...

Couldn't Gensei have found out some other way, or did they make it clear he was behind it? Gensei seems to be the main railgun villain right now... lolz. He's stronger/ more influential than I originally thought.

This is a NT 7 spoiler so don't read this unless you've read NT 7 of Index (the sequel series) (this pertains to Shokuhou)

Spoiler:

In NT 7, Shokuhou can't use exterior. If it really just depended on using the Sister's network which Accelerator uses, this wouldn't make sense. She should still be able to rely on using the Sisters network for her powers. I don't see why she would lose her ability to be able to use "Exterior" if it really were just the sisters network as you say. Her powers in NT 7 are those without Exterior and she would have used everything in her disposal to help Touma at the time, seeing how much she likes him. Furthermore, Kakine Teitoku mentions the Sisters network and he mentions on how his "network" is superior to hers, why then would he not mention Shokuhou's network as well? If both of these projects were so interlinked, shouldn't they be mentioned? Just curious about this.

Something about your reasoning just seems weird to me because of this.

Furthermore, from the manga

Spoiler:

does Shokuhou seem like the type of person to use her powers to hurt one of Mikoto's clones instead of Dolly or just use one of her clones? I don't really think so. This doesn't make much sense to me. I also kind of thought Shokuhou was controlling Kines Knockwood (or whatever his name was. If you look closely, the researcher she is working with is the guy from episode 7 of the railgun s anime, the supervisor of the project, apparently.) and the client might be Gensei, right?

About the other thing you mentioned in spoilers for the new chapter:

Spoiler:

If Saten found out.... about either magic or about the sisters things would be really weird... and... interesting... I don't think that would happen... or if it did, she would find out, Touma would then touch her head and she would lose all of her new memories and get back all of her old memories. I think something like that will happen and all the readers will all freak out and then be annoyed lol. I don't see anything changing for the present. But I am curious to know whether Xochitl will recognize Touma...

Yeah, these are my initial reactions to hearing all this. I kind of thought some/a fair amount of this was true beforehand, by suspicion, but this still blew my mind.

[zaeraal]

Originally Posted by dniv

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand any of that... I had two questions. First, where do you get the translations before the chapter comes out? I haven't been able to figure this out.

Translating manga consists of 3 fases - Scanning, Translation, Cleaning and Typesetting.
Popular Scanlation Groups typically have their people in all categories and you will never see anything besides the finished product.

As for Railgun, there were 2 scanlation groups (Hidoi and Overload Scans), but eventually they droped it.
Without them, it remained on fans to do it and each category is done separately by different people.
Because of that, there is necessary some "common channel for communication" between them.
Luckily, it's done on specific (often mentioned) places, that are not that hard to find and you can easily download raw / translation, before it is put together.

Originally Posted by dniv

Second, it sounds like your old theory was pretty the same as my old theory lolz so my question was:

Spoiler:

What exactly do you mean dolly was a clone? Was she a clone of Shokuhou or Mikoto? Furthermore, since you say this was part of a cloning project, there were multiple Dolly's, so there were multiple clones? Therefore, this isn't full-tuning right, or are you saying the dolly we say was the final clone and was full-tuning? Are these multiple clones of Shokuhou or of Dolly, the original? But they called her prototype...

Couldn't Gensei have found out some other way, or did they make it clear he was behind it? Gensei seems to be the main railgun villain right now... lolz. He's stronger/ more influential than I originally thought.

Dolly is a Clone, that was said various times. But they did not mentioned who they had clonned.
By appearance and hair color we can guess it was Mikoto.

Researchers: The Exterior Project is not some game of dolls forced onto us from above that we do not even know the true purpose of.
The Clone Dolly workshop is the crystallization of our greatest wishes.

They reffered to it as "Clone Dolly workshop" -> DOLLY was most likely the name for all clones, like MISAKA is for all Sisters.

My theory was, that at some point they stopped making DOLLYs and started making MISAKAs.
Dollys were not brainwashed by testament and might not even had any powers.
Dollys might have been the base for ALL clones, like the first serie, to see if they can even clone people or not.

And the point between the last Dolly (the one we saw does not necesarilly has to be the last one) and first Misaka was where Full Tuning was created.
Full Tuning was most likely made to see if they can make a Level 5 from a Clone.
In other words, she might be something between Dolly serie and Misaka serie.

Originally Posted by dniv

This is a NT 7 spoiler so don't read this unless you've read NT 7 of Index (the sequel series) (this pertains to Shokuhou)

Spoiler:

In NT 7, Shokuhou can't use exterior. If it really just depended on using the Sister's network which Accelerator uses, this wouldn't make sense. She should still be able to rely on using the Sisters network for her powers. I don't see why she would lose her ability to be able to use "Exterior" if it really were just the sisters network as you say. Her powers in NT 7 are those without Exterior and she would have used everything in her disposal to help Touma at the time, seeing how much she likes him. Furthermore, Kakine Teitoku mentions the Sisters network and he mentions on how his "network" is superior to hers, why then would he not mention Shokuhou's network as well? If both of these projects were so interlinked, shouldn't they be mentioned? Just curious about this.

Exterior might be the bridge between the Sister network and person using it.
Like the chocker Accelerator uses, but different model..
Kakine did not mentioned it, because it is basically the Sister Network with a different acces point.

Originally Posted by dniv

Something about your reasoning just seems weird to me because of this.

That's why they are just theories

Originally Posted by dniv

Furthermore, from the manga

Spoiler:

does Shokuhou seem like the type of person to use her powers to hurt one of Mikoto's clones instead of Dolly or just use one of her clones? I don't really think so. This doesn't make much sense to me. I also kind of thought Shokuhou was controlling Kines Knockwood (or whatever his name was. If you look closely, the researcher she is working with is the guy from episode 7 of the railgun s anime, the supervisor of the project, apparently.) and the client might be Gensei, right?

Level 5 does not really care about others around them when they use their powers for their goals.
And she does not have problems brainwashing absolutely anyone, her own friends (that's some trust), teachers, whole school garden, Mikoto's friends, thousands of people on streets..
She even said she does not trusts people she can't use her powers on (like Mikoto).

The guy helping her might be mind-controlled and who knows who is the Client.
But they were supposed to earn his trust, it would not make sense for her raid him with Mikoto.

Originally Posted by dniv

About the other thing you mentioned in spoilers for the new chapter:

Spoiler:

If Saten found out.... about either magic or about the sisters things would be really weird... and... interesting... I don't think that would happen... or if it did, she would find out, Touma would then touch her head and she would lose all of her new memories and get back all of her old memories. I think something like that will happen and all the readers will all freak out and then be annoyed lol. I don't see anything changing for the present. But I am curious to know whether Xochitl will recognize Touma...

Touma's power WILL NOT erase her current memories, it does not work like that. (Take for example the Aureolus memory erase)
Only if Shokuho was to "restore" their memories, I can bet she would erase them (and mind controll them) as the price for restoring memories of Mikoto.

And Saten was quite close to finding out about magic and Sisters.
As for Sisters - she saw one in anime, already knows Mikoto is searching for her Sister and definitely knows about all the rumors regarding Mikoto's clones.
As for magic - Saten is the only one from the group who can believe in magic, she saw it already several times and she even was able to tell that those powers are not esper powers.

It would not be that "game breaking" if she was told about it's existence.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

Translating manga consists of 3 fases - Scanning, Translation, Cleaning and Typesetting.
Popular Scanlation Groups typically have their people in all categories and you will never see anything besides the finished product.

As for Railgun, there were 2 scanlation groups (Hidoi and Overload Scans), but eventually they droped it.
Without them, it remained on fans to do it and each category is done separately by different people.
Because of that, there is necessary some "common channel for communication" between them.
Luckily, it's done on specific (often mentioned) places, that are not that hard to find and you can easily download raw / translation, before it is put together.



Dolly is a Clone, that was said various times. But they did not mentioned who they had clonned.
By appearance and hair color we can guess it was Mikoto.

They reffered to it as "Clone Dolly workshop" -> DOLLY was most likely the name for all clones, like MISAKA is for all Sisters.

My theory was, that at some point they stopped making DOLLYs and started making MISAKAs.
Dollys were not brainwashed by testament and might not even had any powers.
Dollys might have been the base for ALL clones, like the first serie, to see if they can even clone people or not.

And the point between the last Dolly (the one we saw does not necesarilly has to be the last one) and first Misaka was where Full Tuning was created.
Full Tuning was most likely made to see if they can make a Level 5 from a Clone.
In other words, she might be something between Dolly serie and Misaka serie.


Exterior might be the bridge between the Sister network and person using it.
Like the chocker Accelerator uses, but different model..
Kakine did not mentioned it, because it is basically the Sister Network with a different acces point.


That's why they are just theories


Level 5 does not really care about others around them when they use their powers for their goals.
And she does not have problems brainwashing absolutely anyone, her own friends (that's some trust), teachers, whole school garden, Mikoto's friends, thousands of people on streets..
She even said she does not trusts people she can't use her powers on (like Mikoto).

The guy helping her might be mind-controlled and who knows who is the Client.
But they were supposed to earn his trust, it would not make sense for her raid him with Mikoto.



Touma's power WILL NOT erase her current memories, it does not work like that. (Take for example the Aureolus memory erase)
Only if Shokuho was to "restore" their memories, I can bet she would erase them (and mind controll them) as the price for restoring memories of Mikoto.

And Saten was quite close to finding out about magic and Sisters.
As for Sisters - she saw one in anime, already knows Mikoto is searching for her Sister and definitely knows about all the rumors regarding Mikoto's clones.
As for magic - Saten is the only one from the group who can believe in magic, she saw it already several times and she even was able to tell that those powers are not esper powers.

It would not be that "game breaking" if she was told about it's existence.

You misunderstand about Saten. It's just that if she learns about magic: it gives me hope she can convince Mikoto about magic at some point which could let Mikoto "awaken" (What she did in Liberal Arts city arc doesn't count in my opinion)

That's a good point about Saten knowing about the sisters. It would certainly create an interesting/different relationship between all of them. I mean Mikoto keeping a secret like that from her best friends is kind of hurtful I would guess. I'm just curious as to how this revelation would affect their relationship and their opinion of Touma or at least Saten's if she realizes that touma was the one who saved her.

Also, when I said Saten might lose her memories, I mean because of the trouble with mixing new and old memories. Her old memory path ways can be unlocked, but these also affect recent memories as well, neurologically. Usually with brain trauma you can remember something, but it will affect your recent memory in some way sometimes. I was just saying it would be possible. If it were true then Mikoto's friends getting their memories back quickly and not thanking Touma so much would make sense, but yeah, I doubt she'll lose her memory from Touma. Maybe Xochitl will hit Saten very hard on the head and make her lose her memory

Furthermore, I see what you were saying about the translation project for railgun. Thanks, this is enlightening. I really had no idea about how it all worked. I would be infinitely grateful at some point if you could PM me info about where to find their communication stuff; I like learning new plot ASAP and it would let me see more of what you were saying if I piece it in with the images.

I see what you were saying about the Dolly's and about the way she uses Exterior to link to the Misaka network and about full-tuning.
I still don't think Shokuhou is THAT ruthless. NT 7:

Spoiler:

She doesn't seem that way with Touma: this is all I can certainly say. Maybe she has changed by then, plausible, but she still acts coldly to Mikoto even then. Knowing this, I feel like Touma is one of the few people she trusts. She says she really would do practically anything for him. I still don't see of course why she would be this ruthless. I'm pretty sure she brainwashed Mikoto's friends to protect them and she was just making things up to Mikoto that she isn't protecting them. Shokuhou seems nice, this is all I can say. She seems nicer than most level 5's... except maybe Gunha and debateably Mikoto. When she is desperate, Shokuhou will do things in order to protect what she wants. But she won't hurt others in doing so. I don't think we have really seen her hurt someone else badly before yet... Also... Mikoto and Shokuhou are friendly in NT 7, I mean as friendly as rivals can be. If Shokuhou tried to hurt her "favorite" sister clone, Mikoto would never forgive Shokuhou I'm sure...

I get what you mean. I just wasn't sure what was theory or not because I haven't been able to find the translations.

[zaeraal]

The scanlation is out, I guess some people didn't wanted to wait another month for the usual guy to do it.

Originally Posted by dniv

That's a good point about Saten knowing about the sisters. It would certainly create an interesting/different relationship between all of them. I mean Mikoto keeping a secret like that from her best friends is kind of hurtful I would guess. I'm just curious as to how this revelation would affect their relationship and their opinion of Touma or at least Saten's if she realizes that touma was the one who saved her.

Yes, this would definitely make the story more interesting.
I also don't like how Mikoto is keeping everything from them and is basically the "knows everything" person.

Originally Posted by dniv

Also, when I said Saten might lose her memories, I mean because of the trouble with mixing new and old memories. Her old memory path ways can be unlocked, but these also affect recent memories as well, neurologically. Usually with brain trauma you can remember something, but it will affect your recent memory in some way sometimes. I was just saying it would be possible. If it were true then Mikoto's friends getting their memories back quickly and not thanking Touma so much would make sense, but yeah, I doubt she'll lose her memory from Touma. Maybe Xochitl will hit Saten very hard on the head and make her lose her memory

Memory is quite spacious, I do not think that the memories of this one day would overlap with the ones concerning Mikoto (and definitely not all of them)
And it also depends on how Misaki erased those memories.
Saten was able to remember Mikoto a bit, which means they are not completly erased, but maybe just blocked.
Which means that her brain should not be able to overwrite them.

Originally Posted by dniv

I see what you were saying about the Dolly's and about the way she uses Exterior to link to the Misaka network and about full-tuning.
I still don't think Shokuhou is THAT ruthless. NT 7:

Spoiler:

She doesn't seem that way with Touma: this is all I can certainly say. Maybe she has changed by then, plausible, but she still acts coldly to Mikoto even then. Knowing this, I feel like Touma is one of the few people she trusts. She says she really would do practically anything for him. I still don't see of course why she would be this ruthless. I'm pretty sure she brainwashed Mikoto's friends to protect them and she was just making things up to Mikoto that she isn't protecting them. Shokuhou seems nice, this is all I can say. She seems nicer than most level 5's... except maybe Gunha and debateably Mikoto. When she is desperate, Shokuhou will do things in order to protect what she wants. But she won't hurt others in doing so. I don't think we have really seen her hurt someone else badly before yet... Also... Mikoto and Shokuhou are friendly in NT 7, I mean as friendly as rivals can be. If Shokuhou tried to hurt her "favorite" sister clone, Mikoto would never forgive Shokuhou I'm sure...

I don't really see how mind-controlling everyone, including your own friends, to achieve your goals is not ruthless.

I mentioned this before, but mind-control is the most tragic power of all powers in anime.
It always led only to pain and suffering, even for the person using it.
And her careless use of it makes it only worse, and her "cute" behavior near Mikoto does not help it.
Take Frenda in recent Railgun episode for example, she was cute and all, but didn't had problems killing that guy in car.

...Even considering her relationship with Touma, we can suppose she already had to be saved/stoped by him.
So she definitely misused her powers in past and paid for it and now she is doing it again...

Unless she can prove otherwise, she will be always ruthless in my eyes.

[MrTerrorist]

Chapter 60 scans are out!

Spoiler for c60:

Dolly.........
Those bastards! Not only they did not care about Dolly's life, they even plan to dispose Misaki once the Exterior project was complete.

Also, some Spec-Ops group, possibly the Hound Dogs, are keeping an eye on Misaki and Mikoto.

Looks like Saten's charm was very lucky to Touma.

[Algent]

Something interesting happen on page 5, Dolly show Misaki a big bottle (water ?) and she ask her to use her power. Could this be an hint to her power True nature ? Like high-precision water manipulation ?