Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[grey_moon]

What in the world has happened to this series? I'm so disappointed in the lack of everything. Is this following the novels at all? With the original author on board I would have thought the whole thing would be better then S1. Instead Ike's day sums up my feelings for S2 in general.

Forget my gripes about Yuji, how about some sensibility in the way Yoshida and Shana are depicted? We have them going through their nuclear break down for the last 4 episodes and after what I consider a really badly written solution to their problem now they not only don't show a bit of jealousy they don't even try to spend time together with Yuji.

Come on at least if anyone has been jealous before they should know it is not that easy an emotion to turn off.

I dunno what to say, apart from poor Ike guy has it bad.

[Kristen]

So, this series has kind of gone completely downhill. It has become completely unoriginal, and has nothing to do with the concept of this series, being flame haze and torches. Heck, the closest we got was Alastor telling Shana to not use her powers recklessly, and the question "How do I become a flame haze?"
Next week it seems like it may be steering back towards a plot. For now, this series is just in the dumps. It started as my 2nd most anticipated of the week, now I can basically care less.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

So, this series has kind of gone completely downhill. It has become completely unoriginal, and has nothing to do with the concept of this series, being flame haze and torches. Heck, the closest we got was Alastor telling Shana to not use her powers recklessly, and the question "How do I become a flame haze?"
Next week it seems like it may be steering back towards a plot. For now, this series is just in the dumps. It started as my 2nd most anticipated of the week, now I can basically care less.

hate to break it to you, but stuff like this mixed with the Guze material IS the concept of the series.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

So, this series has kind of gone completely downhill. It has become completely unoriginal, and has nothing to do with the concept of this series, being flame haze and torches. Heck, the closest we got was Alastor telling Shana to not use her powers recklessly, and the question "How do I become a flame haze?"
Next week it seems like it may be steering back towards a plot. For now, this series is just in the dumps. It started as my 2nd most anticipated of the week, now I can basically care less.

You know how much I hate it when people pay attention to only half of what the series is about.

[SeedFreedom]

I think, along with most of the other people who posted those comments, aren't really mad at the fact we are getting a slice of life/ romance side of the story. The problem is we aren't moving on with the story line. They had everyone basically standing still for 5 eps and maybe its nice for one or two eps, or different aspects of that, but when the same thing drags on it gets annoying.

[grey_moon]

I can't agree with the past 5 episodes being the concept of the series. For me I like to see some form of pattern to a character's development, but so far in S2 Yuji, Shana and Yoshida don't make any sense to me at all. The sudden change in their characters and when issues suddenly disappear are more suited to series that deal with an episode at a time and don't deal with continuity. It is not slice of life as I like that type of stuff, it is not lack of action, nor is it my favourite girl not getting enough screen time. The show is staggering around like a drunk that has had far more to drink then Margery has had in her life time.

[FlareKnight]

Well another episode at least. Ike has a pretty rough day and should really avoid any amusement parks in the future. Or at least see a doctor concerning the extreme sensitivity to motion if even a ferris wheel can push him over the edge.

Shana really goes for the bonus round maxing the game at 9,999,999 to get the grand prize. Though considering what she has done in the past that really is a simple game. Bit surprised she didn't care much about not being in Yuji's group.

Then Satou trying to find out about becoming a flame haze. Not that its out of the question and a reasonable step if you want to get strong enough to do something. Right now he can't really do much. Plus he knows things wont' stay like this and people are going to start leaving. Not even like Eita who is having a growing relationship to keep him grounded.

But guess next episode we'll get some Margery past which will be nice. Plus why she doesn't want either to get too involved. Since I have a feeling that guy who was following behind Margery in the past didn't have a pretty end.

[OverFunk]

While you all grown ups () discuss, I'll just say that I enjoyed this episode, definitely way more than 4-6, that tried to be all serious. Then I already knew what 8 was about, maybe I didn't get mad this time knowing this beforehand.

This one didn't take itself all that serious. Epic inner monologues, some spotlight to other characters and even eyecatch spam (this series does that well) with the old eyecatch music too.

Shana was amazing in that game, and interesting how she can bungee jump with a skirt on, lol.

Yeah, it sorta annoyed me the inconsistency of the main characters, but this one was about Ike, so I let it pass (can't write Keikaku without Ike).

[stormy001_M1A2]

This ep is alright to me, it shows what Ike's stake in Yoshida's future which might turn up interesting when things getting serious hot later in the series.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

I think, along with most of the other people who posted those comments, aren't really mad at the fact we are getting a slice of life/ romance side of the story. The problem is we aren't moving on with the story line. They had everyone basically standing still for 5 eps and maybe its nice for one or two eps, or different aspects of that, but when the same thing drags on it gets annoying.

see, but a lot of people angry with the show right now aren't saying that, instead we have: "oh this is filler", "this isn't what the characters are about", and all these stock phrases.

It's not a problem that people don't like the show so far for lack of development, it's a problem that they're misrepresenting this show. It's not a just about the Guze material, especially in this portion of the story, when there's entire volumes with nothing but school material. And no, this story isn't about Yuji and Shana getting into a serious relationship, it's about them trying to do so, and the continuous setbacks that get in the way of that. I can't stand people talking as if the anime is screwing up somehow in those ways (certainly not saying you can't suggest it's screwing up though), because quite simply that's the concept behind Shana, that's the source material, that is what it is.

Yes the second season is slow, yes they likely have a severe lack of material and it may have been prudent to wait until the novels were complete, and yes parts of this are filler (but not all of it, and certainly not in terms of tone, so be careful and check a little before you just go ahead and throw that word out). But people should say that, not these other accusations of this not being what SnS is about or this being inconsistent with the characters.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

You know how much I hate it when people pay attention to only half of what the series is about.

Don't assume so much. I know about the harem elements. It's just they have ignored this "half of what the series is about" for 5 episodes now, and the series doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
It would be like Harry Potter in a book where they completely ignore the fact that they are wizards. It wouldn't work.

I'm not liking it. It's boring to me. Even looking at it from the harem/romance elements alone, it's not a good storyline.

[Midonin]

Ike planning a day at the amusement park for a special girl...

Not just because of the VA (though that helps), almost reminded me of Touma's similar outing in Digimon Savers...which by the purest coincidence, was also episode 7 of its particular series. Touma had better luck than Ike, needless to say.

Even if SnS II is in an...odd place at the moment, at least this episode was fun. All hail Shana, the CGI demon slayer! I can always count on amusement park episodes to entertain me. Always have for some reason.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Midonin

Ike planning a day at the amusement park for a special girl...

Not just because of the VA (though that helps), almost reminded me of Touma's similar outing in Digimon Savers...which by the purest coincidence, was also episode 7 of its particular series. Touma had better luck than Ike, needless to say.

Even if SnS II is in an...odd place at the moment, at least this episode was fun. All hail Shana, the CGI demon slayer! I can always count on amusement park episodes to entertain me. Always have for some reason.

Wow when thinking back that's a fitting comparison. Though things did work out better for Touma. Probably due to the fact that the amount of times Ike tossed his cookies makes his day worse my default. Arriving at the amusement park is what turned Touma's day around anyways.

Regardless of how I feel on the series up to this point it wasn't a bad episode. Shana really owned the CGI enemies on this day. Besides the fact this is the first time she's attacked something other than Yuji for a while.

[Strabo]

I've been complaing about the overly large amounts of filler in this season of SnS, and, yes, this episode was filler too.

But I don't care. Because it was so funny. Everything about it was hilarious, each joke worked perfectly. I just feel a bit sorry for poor Ike.

I'm normally against fansubbers adding things to the sub, but the dubbed version I watched (Ayako) had what was one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.
The subs went: Ike:"..and I stayed up all night making keikaku." (Paraphrasing)
With a translators note at the top saying 'Note, keikaku means plan'

I loled. Hard.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I can't agree with the past 5 episodes being the concept of the series. For me I like to see some form of pattern to a character's development, but so far in S2 Yuji, Shana and Yoshida don't make any sense to me at all. The sudden change in their characters and when issues suddenly disappear are more suited to series that deal with an episode at a time and don't deal with continuity. It is not slice of life as I like that type of stuff, it is not lack of action, nor is it my favourite girl not getting enough screen time. The show is staggering around like a drunk that has had far more to drink then Margery has had in her life time.

Welcome to the world where we call slice-of-life. It's different. It makes people change suddenly. Do you think that after six months of being together that Yuji, Shana, Kazumi, et al. will follow some sort of pattern? In real life, that doesn't happen, so it would make sense that character development wouldn't follow a pattern here.

Speaking of which, if you recall my explanations from the novel thread (assuming you have read it), Yuji's message in this story is about "life". What's life without a little everyday mundaneness? These every-day events are as much as important to life as those dangers that we will encounter in the future, symbolized by the crimson denizens who attack Yuji out of nowhere. In a sense, you're telling me that for the past 5 episodes, the Reiji Maigo isn't important at all. It doesn't make sense to me.

[ZODDGUTS]

Boy this episode suck. It felt like a filler episode hell it probably was a filler episode. So far this season has dissapointed me not as good as the first season was.They still have the whole love triangle going on without really moving it forward hell they even added another girl in the mix ugh. Hope sometime during the season Shana and Yuji finally leave the city and the whole annoying love triangle is done with.

But Margery isn't Asian... is she?

With a name and a body like that doesn't take much of a guess she isn't.

I remembered it was mentioned somewhere that Margery is Scottish. Hair colour is irrelevant in anime in determining one's ethnicity.

Not neccasarly most of the time anyone with blond hair in anime are either a "half" (mix) or a dumb loud mouth foreigner with big breast and nice body. Guess which Margery fits in...

Though Margery isn't dumb just drunk most of the time...

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Yes the second season is slow, yes they likely have a severe lack of material and it may have been prudent to wait until the novels were complete, and yes parts of this are filler (but not all of it, and certainly not in terms of tone, so be careful and check a little before you just go ahead and throw that word out). But people should say that, not these other accusations of this not being what SnS is about or this being inconsistent with the characters.

Firstly there are plenty of shows that have been finished where the original haven't and they were good stories in their own right. What happened to chants of the original author being on board? Shouldn't that make it even easier to produce a good show?

I judge a show on what I see now and what I have been shown in the past. I don't do the whole read the future stuff. Defence via vapourware, I leave that up to the Microsoft marketing team. If I am hoping for something to happen in the future I say it. A good example is Myself; Yourself threads in regards to Nanaka's actions in the earlier episodes.

Now lets clear something up. My definition of good consistent characterisation. I expect a character to act based on what has been shown previously. If the writers shows a character acting very jealous for 4 episodes I expect something to happen that justifies the resolution. A Scooby Doo ending just doesn't do SnS any justice at all. There was a great example of a lack of this is S1. Do you recall all the angsting Yuji did about leaving the city, about people close to him not being a torch, about not being useful to Shana. Now all these add up to how I define the character called Yuji. Then when suddenly he does what I consider a out of character action such as running after Yoshida in the festival scene, I call that inconsistency in the character, because all the build up doesn't fit the new action.

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Welcome to the world where we call slice-of-life. It's different. It makes people change suddenly. Do you think that after six months of being together that Yuji, Shana, Kazumi, et al. will follow some sort of pattern? In real life, that doesn't happen, so it would make sense that character development wouldn't follow a pattern here.

Speaking of which, if you recall my explanations from the novel thread (assuming you have read it), Yuji's message in this story is about "life". What's life without a little everyday mundaneness? These every-day events are as much as important to life as those dangers that we will encounter in the future, symbolized by the crimson denizens who attack Yuji out of nowhere. In a sense, you're telling me that for the past 5 episodes, the Reiji Maigo isn't important at all. It doesn't make sense to me.

I love slice of life, H&C, Ai Yori Aoshi, Azumanga, To Heart, they all hold a special place in my heart. I actually have far more slice of life series in my top 10 list then any others.

In regards to my question about the novells I was actually wondering if having the author on-board was keeping it on track with the novels. But please tell me you don't consider the last 5 episodes to be normal day to day events. Having 2 girls go spazmo over a socially inept princess character is not day to day. Having the day go consistently wrong for Ike is not day to day, hell the Scooby Gang even kept pointing it out. This episode is out of the ordinary for 2 reasons, first it was a day out (not a day to day activity) and secondly it was special because Ike planned it as the romantic debut of his life. Not day to day not ordinary.

[kyonkun]

Filler though it may be, I enjoyed this episode. Then again, I just finished Clannad #8. (Tears? Those weren't tears. I put too much Visine in my eyes, that's all. Yeah, Visine. *sniff*)

Slight digression: you want to talk horrible filler? Try Rurounin Kenshin after the Kyoto Arc. Compared to that, Shana #7 was downright entertaining.

Ike should remember another famous quote: "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry." It was hilarious how he planned everything to the hour only to have Konoe derail them as soon they entered the front gate. By the way, was that a Moleskine he was writing in?

Watching this episode brings back memories of how my father and I made battle plans before our trips to Disneyland. Once we got there, we had to see the list of attractions undergoing maintenance. (Splash Mountain closed? NOOOO!)...Which meant making a barrel of corrections to our itinerary.

Side question: I noticed that some parks in the States now issue express tickets that allow one to advance to the front of the line. Have the parks in Japan adopted that practice? (I wouldn't be surprised if Japan started the idea in the first place.)

Nice to see Shana and Kazumi apply what they learned from last week's episode and not fight over Yuji. Shana exchanged a few significant words with Satou, and Kazumi brightening up Ike's day with a few choice phrases, even if Ike read too much into them.

Shana's VR Monster Slash Session was Teh Win. I'm glad the scoreboard maxed out at (10,000,000-1) and didn't rollover back to zero. Anyway, what the heck did she win? Umbrella? Calendar? Incense sticks? A literal Cat in the Can?

What is interesting is that despite her facial expressions, Shana enjoyed that Swing the Saber game. Her dead-pan expression on the bungee cord cracked me up. Is it just me, or did she go through the whole day without melon bread? [Update: Thanks to Devard for the definitive screenshot.]

I don't read the manga nor do I intend to, but I wonder if this episode will be significant down the road. At the end of the day, everyone (even Ike) had an enjoyable time. I wonder if these pleasant experiences will make a difference to those who haven't been aware of fuzetsu-world, namely, Ike, Konoe, and Ogata. Since they spend so much time together, it's almost inevitable that they will come under Tomogara attack.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into this, and I should just laugh at the filler.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by kyonkun

What is interesting is that despite her facial expressions, Shana enjoyed that Swing the Saber game. Her dead-pan expression on the bungee cord cracked me up. Is it just me, or did she go through the whole day without melon bread?

Wait... I thought something was missing from this episode...

[Devard]

Originally Posted by kyonkun

Is it just me, or did she go through the whole day without melon bread?