Muv-Luv Franchise - Military Tactics, History, & Geo-Politics

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Non-franchise observer question again (we need a Chitanda Eru emote for this - KININARIMASU!):

Just so long as you don't go too deep too fast and end up like this

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[FRS]

Originally Posted by Silvance

Oh, to think I failed to get the point of the question and pointed out something else. Sorry.

No problem at all

It sets in 1983. Plus, the 666th Squadron doesn't hold the line. Their job is to hunt down Lux and Magnus Lux within the horde and then retreat.

Does that have any impact on the BETA ?

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by FRS

No problem at all

Does that have any impact on the BETA ?

Allows for uninterrupted delivery of bombs, arty, missiles, rocks and sharp sticks and bad words on the BETA hordes. Aircraft and Arty can fire with impunity.

Its like how current forces hunt for Air Defense Artillery in the real world, to deny the enemy the capacity to take down fire support.

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by FRS

No problem at all



Does that have any impact on the BETA ?

To clarify allow me to quote the translated detail synopsis of Schwarzenmarken.

The story starts on Januarry 10th 1983. After the disastrous defeat suffered by the red army and the GDR(German democratic republic)’s east German army(NPA-national people’s Army) by the BETA at Bialystok in 1978, the NPA have began a gradual systematic retreat out of Poland as the Beta emerging from the Minsk Hive continued their relentless push both east and west cutting off Easts Germany and the Soviet Union. Within a year, Poland is lost to the ravaging Alien invaders. During that time the NPA have began construction of multiple “Fortress” like defense installations and Bunker networks along the entire Oder–Neisse line on the Poland and GDR border. With the advantage of easily defensible terrain, heavy artillery , close air-support, pre-sighted kill zones, Extensive minefields, man made obstacles/traps and interlocking arcs of fire for all Defense installations along the Oder–Neisse line, the GDR claimed to its people that such defenses are impregnable and that No BETA shall ever cross its lines. Though of course when faced with the astronomical numbers of BETA such defenses are far from perfect and would only be a matter of time before its imminent collapse. So now, 4 years after the fall of Poland and the completion of the oder-Neisse defense line, another battle rages on as its defender fight to repel another BETA wave. If the Oder–Neisse line were to fall the GDR would lose several major factory complexes, power plants and coal mines- essentially the life blood of the GDR’s wartime economy and social stability. Not to mention Berlin’s proximity but needless to say should the NPA fail here at the Oder–Neisse line the lives of millions of east German citizens would be at stake and in all likely hood the collapse of the east German government as well. For the NPA this is a No Fail mission. ”

also quoting a summary of the Schwarzemarken's task in vol 1 of the novel.

as for the squadron itself they are the 666th TSF squadron "Schwarzesmarken" or Black Mark in english. Infamous among the NPA for both their tendencie to ignore calls of help from ally forces in distress and the meaning behind their name. In modern day combat casuaty care and even civillian first aird/paramedic training it is taught that during situations invovling mulitple casualties that a traige system be initiated and causlties categorized by pirority based on the nature of their injuries, time, availiable resource ,etc . Those casualty who are deemed beyond saving or not worth saving are given the black mark. For someone to be unlucky enough to be concousse when reciving the black mark,it is equal to reciving your own death sentence.
Idealy a squadron like the 666th is suppose to sortie in flights of 12, but with such a high attrition rate through out the whole Division for pilots all over the frontlines, there is never enough spare pilots. In fact it is easier and quicker to request a TSF replacement than getting a replacement pilot. Even with their latest group of new pilots, the Schwarzesmarken deployed for this current operation with only 10 TSFs. Now ,after 3 days of hard fighting 2 of the 4 rookies have died and the squadron is down to 8. For their first operation the rookies were very unlucky as the Schwarzesmarkens are the designated Laserjäger(laser hunter) for this sector of the battle space. Going deep behind the BETA Formations and taking out laser class BETAs so artillery and close air support can pommel the BETA to oblivion. Still, to hunt the one thing that has been crippleing and limiting the human military world wide, while operating behind enemy lines with with limited support and no chance of resupply. To put it lightly, Laser hunting are not something that you should be taking anyone new with. So once again after being resupplied and rearmed, the 666th soared into the air at maximum speed on NOE flight mode using terrain for cover. plotting their course with up-linked information supplied by Russian military satellites of their current AO, the 666th began their Flanking maneuver that would put them in position to engage the laser class while slipping by the forward BETA lines. Timing and speed is critical to ensuring that their plotted course remains viable. For every second that air and artillery support is denied due to the Laser presence, it meant more lives lost on the front line. So in typical fashion the 666th's CO Captain Irisdina Bernhard ignored every friendly distress signal and request for support.

[Von Himmel]

Since TDA takes part in unlimited universe where ALT 5 takes place, are there any other games that implied on what's happening to Alt universe where Takeru and the other succeeded? I think I've asked about this before, but I'm still not clear about it

I know that Owarinaki Natsu hugely implied that it happened in Alt universe, but are there any others?

Also

To clarify allow me to quote the translated detail synopsis of Schwarzenmarken.

-snip-

I've never seen a unit like that in Alt.. does that mean the humans are not using that strategy again?

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

Since TDA takes part in unlimited universe where ALT 5 takes place, are there any other games that implied on what's happening to Alt universe where Takeru and the other succeeded? I think I've asked about this before, but I'm still not clear about it

I know that Owarinaki Natsu hugely implied that it happened in Alt universe, but are there any others?

Also

I've never seen a unit like that in Alt.. does that mean the humans are not using that strategy again?

Only TSFIA article have short stories that go past the Original hive assault.

and also Laser hunting is still a priority as it always is. But the 666th is just the only ones we know about where laser hunting is their trademark gimmick. That and also how they are actually planing to over throw the Stasi and the communist government in East Germany so They can be reunited with West germany. Either way however we are well aware of what have happened to Germany years later anyway.

[DoomRavager]

Originally Posted by Angrypokstick

Only TSFIA article have short stories that go past the Original hive assault.

Don't forget Alternative Chronicles Succession.

[FRS]

Thanks for the details Angrypokstick .

[Sheba]

One question, do we have any information about Africa and the african mediterranean coast as well as the islands like Corsica, Crete, Cyprus and Sicilia? I mean, I know there are Arabian nations, Israel and the Foreign Legion at Suez, but past that, nothing. It would have been interesting to see the action going on at Gibraltar, or any of those mediterranean islands.

[novalysis]

Africa seems to have fallen for the Space Filling Empire syndrome....

One wonders why the creators spared Africa.

[encia]

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

It's not just about control sensitivity alone, it's about the way the TSFs maneuver. Yuuya's used to designs like the Strike Eagle that can maneuver themselves with thrusters and thrust vectoring alone, while Japanese designs with their comparatively underpowered engines have to maneuver using mechanical characteristics and control surfaces like the head antennae and the forearm sheaths as control surfaces, making them very twitchy and fiddly.

Having a weak engine with sensitive maneuvering would make it unbalanced i.e. a repeat of RL WWII's Mitsubishi A6M Zero.

Also, EP02's all girls team+red colored commander unit didn't show comparable performance to EP03's F-15E Strike Eagle TSF.

USA didn't designed thier TSFs to directly engage BETA tank's main strenght (i.e. melee combat), but focused on BETA tank's weaknesses (i.e. speed and omni-directional maneuvers).

USA did a good job with thier SWOT analysis and designed thier TSF machines accordingly.

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

Yuuya's entire flying style revolves around abusing his TSF's acceleration and speed to jink around and outmaneuver the opponent, and he's been doing well with that so far. But right now Yuuya's trying to toss the Fubuki about with thrusters alone based on his existing training, being inexperienced in the use of the kind of extra aerodynamic control surfaces that the Fubuki relies heavily on, so he's not controlling his machine properly as per Japanese design philosophy. (Not to say that the Americans don't also make light maneuverable designs like the F-5, F-16, F-18 etc)

RL F-16 still has speed.

Top Gun's theme song "Danger Zone" and "I feel the need, the need for speed" remarks summaries US's combat doctrine.

Read the Lyrics or listen to Top Gun's theme song "Danger Zone".
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/topgun/dangerzone.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmX08CsXqws

[Von Himmel]

Only TSFIA article have short stories that go past the Original hive assault.

What's the story all about? Is it light-hearted story that shows some peace after the battle in the original hive or is it still talking about fighting the beta?

[DoomRavager]

It's about the XFJ plan's Shiranui II being trialled against the Silent Eagle JP ver (Gekkou) by the remaining Valkyries at Hive 20 in Korea as part of Operation Sledgehammer to seize the Hive. The Silent Eagle would have been chosen for adoption because the military higher-ups had a real hard-on for stealth after seeing the results of the Raptor on 12-5, but the Shogun stepped in and ordered the Shiranui Nigata adopted instead.

There's also an Alternative Chronicles sidestory about the Isumi sisters who will be participating in Operation Sledgehammer.

[Von Himmel]

Don't tell me that the reason why they choose Shiranui is because the shogun thinks that the stealth ability is useless against BETA?

[DoomRavager]

Well, the Nigata's anti-BETA performance was judged superior to the Gekkou's in that trial. And the stealth really is useless against the BETA.

[Wild Goose]

On the other hand, the Silent Eagle/Gekkou will have less issues for local manufacture and retraining, as it's essentially a much better Eagle/Kagerou - it's like going from a Hornet to a Super Hornet.

[Nyat]

Shiranui was built in Japan right?
F-15J probably also.
Silent Eagle is a foreign design and would still require a technology transfer from the USA.
Shiranui Nigata would also some technology from the USA but it would be a primarily Japanese design.
The Japanese are on the frontline so they don't need stealth. They don't have the time to think about ruling the world after BETA is defeated like the USA.

[Von Himmel]

Phew.. It looks like the shogun is pretty reasonable (since the spec and maintenance are better ). I thought that it's only because the stealth ability contradict the japanese principle which makes the shogun choose Shiranui instead.

...well it's Yuuhi we're talking about There's no way she would make a decision like that.. silly me ._.

[DoomRavager]

Originally Posted by Nyat

Shiranui was built in Japan right?
F-15J probably also.
Silent Eagle is a foreign design and would still require a technology transfer from the USA.
Shiranui Nigata would also some technology from the USA but it would be a primarily Japanese design.
The Japanese are on the frontline so they don't need stealth. They don't have the time to think about ruling the world after BETA is defeated like the USA.

Apparently part of the advantage of the Silent Eagle would have been the similarity to the Kagerou allowing them to apply existing experience and quickly convert production lines formerly used for Kagerous, so presumably the design really is that similar that there wouldn't be much of a problem with foreign stuff. Maybe the same applies to the Shiranui Nigata to the Shiranui to an extent, I dunno. Boening wins either way, the capitalists that they are.

Saying they want to "rule the world" is a bit harsh. They're just trying to pre-empt the post-BETA arms race and safeguard their nation, that's all.

Originally Posted by TSFIA #8: Question of Honor

Then in the year of 1982, having witnessed the world wide success of 2nd generation TSF, the "Father of the TSF", US Army Major General Ben Brugg, proposed the following:
"Due to the deployment of 2nd generation TSFs, the estimated date of BETA eradication can be numbered in years as of now. With their defeat, the priority would shift to securing the rare element deposit within each Hive. No doubt a new arms race over the rare elements will occur, and the worldly nations would once again assert dominance over their lost territory. I propose that future weapon development program should consider both improved Anti-BETA, and superior Anti-Human capabilities".
While this proposal supported the then still-secret HI-MAERF project, the underlying issue and whether this new proposal would shift future US combat doctrine became a heated debate among US Senate and Congress.

[Nyat]

That "ruling the world" thing was a exaggeration. All nations have their own interests and all want to dominate other nations. Im not talking about some Jewish-freemasonry conspiracy.