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Old 2014-05-03, 22:47   Link #1
faridatos
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Anime Execution

What does great concept but poor executed anime mean ? Would you explain ?
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Old 2014-05-04, 00:05   Link #2
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Like you make the most beatiful statue, but dress it in a horrible gown. An example would be Valvrave, Gundam 00 (season 2, but especially the movie),...

Also, there is the case of good material source but bad anime adaption, like Black Bullet (Light Novel) or Blazblue (Video Game).
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Old 2014-05-04, 00:43   Link #3
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or Blazblue (Video Game)
More like most anime adaptations of video games suffer from this very fate.

That aside, there's also C3-Bu and Mahou Sensou.
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Old 2014-05-04, 03:16   Link #4
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Or an idea would lookd good on paper, but just turns horrid when it gets on the screen. Some series have episodes like that were the idea seems good if you read it out, but once it gets done you realize you can't make it work in the medium you are producing.
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Old 2014-05-04, 03:18   Link #5
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Or something that had all the right elements but was in the hands of an incapable studio/team that screwed it up/underperformed.
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Old 2014-05-07, 21:08   Link #6
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Deja vu.

The "Execution" Effect (Oct 20, 2012)
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Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
People always complain that "Hey this anime sucks because it's so cliched" or "This harem animu sucks because it's stupid ecchi" or something along those lines. While I don't really get excited when a lot of anime keep on repeating the same tried and true formulas with all the cliches and everything, it's always nice to see an anime that has all this cliches yet is such a joy to watch.

I think this is where the execution effect comes in. An anime that has a premise that is as beat up as an old fart yet somehow it makes you feel that it's the freshest thing anime has been able to offer in a long time. It's executed differently or rather it's executed exceptionally well for an anime with that premise.

...So my point is: What do you think is an anime that exemplifies the "execution"effect?
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Old 2014-05-07, 21:44   Link #7
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Oh hi there Sword Art Online and Guilty Crown.
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Old 2014-05-07, 21:47   Link #8
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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Oh hi there Sword Art Online and Guilty Crown.
SAO did have a very good concept due to it going deep into a game world, but didn't manage to take advantage of it at all. Much like .hack sign though I felt even that was better. At least that had depth and not banal execution.

Guilty Crown I don't know. I don't even think it had a good concept. Unless you're saying it should have been a softcore porn.
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Old 2014-05-07, 21:52   Link #9
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Guilty Crown I don't know. I don't even think it had a good concept. Unless you're saying it should have been a softcore porn.
I thought it had a decent concept. Unfortunately it was ruined by SHOE and SFSD. And asspull plot revelations one after another.

Still can find some enjoyment if you look hard enough in such series though albeit it were quite shallow. At least they were not shows with banal concepts with banal execution e.g. Oreimo S2. Those are the worst kind of shows. I was a masochist for finishing that...
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Old 2014-05-07, 22:12   Link #10
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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
I thought it had a decent concept. Unfortunately it was ruined by SHOE and SFSD. And asspull plot revelations one after another.

Still can find some enjoyment if you look hard enough in such series though albeit it were quite shallow. At least they were not shows with banal concepts with banal execution e.g. Oreimo S2. Those are the worst kind of shows. I was a masochist for finishing that...
The way I see it, Guilty Crown's premise really isn't anything novel. One can say that that's unfair because concepts across the medium can overlap, and different approaches can make the difference. But it didn't. For example, could you even uncover any degree of thematic concepts beyond the most basic kind from GC? It shows in that it was ruined by the main characters and themes surrounding them! If anything, because of its good character designs, decent music (though I still wouldn't call it anything near Sawano's best), and many frames of animation make the execution good, not the concept.

For SAO, at least I can talk about how a group of people forcibly made to interact in a dangerous virtual environment would develop their form of culture and society. Or the nature of existence, and how relationships can form outside of "reality", and that they are just as meaningful. Or maybe how people deal with death, especially how it can descend upon at any time and they are forced to take a gamble to survive constantly. Sure, everyone acts retarded, faces are frequently distorted, and the solutions it provides are juvenile at best but at the very least they touch upon things that can be traced back to human action and nature as opposed to a Victoria's Secret catalogue. Though Inori wouldn't really qualify for that.

In any case, regardless of you liking it or not-- I personally did not like most of it-- SAO did have a number of concepts that stood out. Denying it would be dishonest. Guilty Crown despite my hyperbole wasn't devoid of anything of value, though it's a big stretch to call any of its concepts great. While both of the shows definitely rest in my trash bin, I have a easier time defending one over the other.

Though go Tsugumi the catgirl and that asstight outfit! She deserved a better show!

I realized you talked about something else, but I failed to register a thought on it.
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Old 2014-05-08, 02:20   Link #11
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In light of the points above, I want to add that all works arguably have flaws. But, "good execution" isn't a purely objective thing either, because there are different ways to appreciate an anime, and they can be weighed differently. For example, I would describe SAO as a heavily-romanticized show that explores some interesting concepts/ideas, and that really appeals to me personally. I thought the execution of the premise in that light was excellent. But other people approach the work from a different perspective, and were hoping for something less romanticized and more... perhaps "tactical", or arguably "grounded". So when you start analysing the story purely on its technical plot execution and tangible internal logic, there are a lot of unanswered questions and arguable logic holes that seem puzzling and not clearly explained -- not to mention that the plot seems to venture into territory that don't seem to really build on that tactical/practical angle and so may feel out of place, at least at first. In many cases you an intuit an answer to fill in the blanks, but some people see this as a poor realization of potential. So when people see that it had a premise that could have been explored in certain ways, but took a different path that wasn't as effective in their opinion, they may argue the show had "poor execution" -- for various reasons, it didn't live up to its promise in their minds. But that's a bit of a different angle then if you're talking about things like the art/animation, voice acting, music/sfx, and overall presentation -- which are also "execution", but perhaps not quite as subject to massive difference in perspective (since they're often easier to measure objectively).

In the end, to answer the OP's question most directly, talking about "Execution" is basically the opposite of "Concept/Premise" in most cases. And often when people say that a show had "bad execution", they usually mean "it seems like it might have been a good show, but it wasn't as good as I had hoped due to the way it played out".
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Old 2014-05-08, 02:36   Link #12
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Most people tend to think of execution as subjective. At least, judging by how they reviewed the anime imo. People expect tons of different things from just 1 series but that's simply impossible to fulfill. Saying that execution means "i thought it could be good but it wasn't" is too subjective and is a worthless and dumb definition. I liked SAO, it was intended to be heavily romanticized and i loved that aspect. Though people who are going to look at it technically or in other ways would find it dumb whether it be due to the badass OP main character or if that person expected heavy realism in their fiction. Because i don't care about realism in fiction, it's easy for me to appreciate a show with or without it.

But i think execution means whether or not the show / book sent out the author's intended message for it effectively. It's a lot more objective and quantifiable that way and i don't think SAO failed in this.



Hmm, though i have a question
Judging by the quote, couldn't we say that Madoka is just another magical girl show and Evangelion is another super robot show but they were executed so well that they're legendary?
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Old 2014-05-08, 02:58   Link #13
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But i think execution means whether or not the show / book sent out the author's intended message for it effectively. It's a lot more objective and quantifiable that way and i don't think SAO failed in this.
I think there are two problems with this:

1. I think a lot of viewers have a hard time identifying the author's intended message if they get too bogged down in the show's apparent flaws or they simply don't enjoy it. They often get hung-up on their preconception of what they thought the author's message/intention was going to be, and then how it failed to live up to that premise, rather than looking at the work holistically and figuring out the message based on what was actually explored/said.

2. I think a lot of viewers have a hard time dealing with shows that contain messages that they can't personally relate to, or don't necessary appreciate/enjoy (or contain elements of the same). Or, broader still, shows that contain messages that would resonate with other audiences that aren't themselves, without looking down on the people to whom the message resonates.

So, in order to be able to argue objectively whether show communicated its intended message, you need to be able to first make a good argument about what the message is. I think a lot of people struggle with the latter so it rarely gets to the point of having an objective conversation.

(To again use one of the aforementioned issues, I'd argue that OreImo s2 is a show that struggled to communicate its message due to issues with its execution, but execution isn't actually the primary reason why people dislike it -- though it didn't help.)


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Hmm, though i have a question
Judging by the quote, couldn't we say that Madoka is just another magical girl show and Evangelion is another super robot show but they were executed so well that they're legendary?
If you argue that "good execution is greatly-exceeding the expectations set out based on its apparent genre", then that's probably a decent argument. That said, I think premise is actually broader than just the genre and stereotypes evoked in the trailer/first episode, so the lines are actually a bit blurrier than this.
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Old 2014-05-08, 03:03   Link #14
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Persona 4 the Animation is a poster child on how good source material can be a terrible show due to bad execution and direction.
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Old 2014-05-08, 12:31   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHism View Post
Hmm, though i have a question
Judging by the quote, couldn't we say that Madoka is just another magical girl show and Evangelion is another super robot show but they were executed so well that they're legendary?
I wouldn't claim that myself. I think both shows had very ambitious concepts and appreciate them more for that. The execution could have said to be very good, but there are more doubts in that area, such as certain plot contrivances and the (lack of) animation. Indeed, Evangelion needed movies to fill itself out properly.
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Old 2014-05-08, 18:51   Link #16
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Sword Art Online was pretty good about hiding its disjointed progress and simple characters with volume over substance, with Kirito learning more about the world around him from Nicholas the Renegade to a treasure chest trap to a pet revival item. No character overstayed too long for their lack of character to be noticeable, and I always contend SAO is at its strongest being semi-setting-dependent. Then we have the second arc and the show has none of that cover whatsoever.

Guilty Crown gets panned for its story, but there might be also be a problem with its aesthetics. Having a completely ridiculous episodes one after the other wouldn't be so hard to take if the aesthetics were equally outlandish. I wouldn't excuse the story entirely, but I honestly can't tell (and can't arsed to...check) if the characters were held back by the plox or if the characters just bombed in the first place. I mean, I actually liked Shu, but I forgot Inori even existed most of the time.
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Old 2014-05-08, 20:09   Link #17
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Quote:
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Hmm, though i have a question
Judging by the quote, couldn't we say that Madoka is just another magical girl show and Evangelion is another super robot show but they were executed so well that they're legendary?
But the usage of Magical Girls in PMMM is not entirely the concept of the show, just the subject of it. Having Magical Girls worked in a dark environment --opposing vibrant colors usually associated with the archetype-- is the concept of the story. Was it executed well? This is where the edge of Animation as an effective medium for storytelling comes in. I think the visual execution is done beautifully, not necessarily because it has quality animation (which is arguable in itself), but because the visual presentation is consistent with the concept. How? By having innocuous and let say, "kawaii" objects the enemies. That these seemingly vibrant, aesthetically pleasing objects be the representation of darkness really delivers the concept of the show.

TL;DR: The concept of Madoka is daring in itself, married with a presentation that matched its ambitiousness.
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Old 2014-05-15, 21:56   Link #18
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Then, isn't it the author of manga fault if the story not live up the premise ?
Because the anime just following the story in manga ?
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Old 2014-05-24, 22:21   Link #19
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Originally Posted by Anatoelle View Post
But the usage of Magical Girls in PMMM is not entirely the concept of the show, just the subject of it. Having Magical Girls worked in a dark environment --opposing vibrant colors usually associated with the archetype-- is the concept of the story. Was it executed well? This is where the edge of Animation as an effective medium for storytelling comes in. I think the visual execution is done beautifully, not necessarily because it has quality animation (which is arguable in itself), but because the visual presentation is consistent with the concept. How? By having innocuous and let say, "kawaii" objects the enemies. That these seemingly vibrant, aesthetically pleasing objects be the representation of darkness really delivers the concept of the show.

TL;DR: The concept of Madoka is daring in itself, married with a presentation that matched its ambitiousness.
Don't forget about Clamp's Card Captor Sakura and Magic Knight Rayearth. Those anime introduced the different kind fetish and couples. Theose anime also introduced some dark element.
Magical Girl genre was not dark, supposedly. Many would credit this genre from the inspiration of TV show Bewitched.

Guilty Crown was made because the studio(after looked around) thought they should make their own super power anime. They tried to inegrated the Biology into the show. The anime had the long research work, but the story is suffering.

Sword Art Online anime adaption is the improvement. People who read the author's novel felt the anime storytelling is much better. The novel lacks the structure, so anime breaks down the story and make the better story flow. However, the author is improving his writing.

Persona 4 anime adaption receives many praises. Although some people complain that banjou is too powerful, it is as if he is playing the game for the second round. Other than that, poeple like the anime.

My overall impression is that if anime committe can work without putting down too much sensitive material, it would work. However, we won't know if it would work until the anime is airing.
The example of sensitive material in anime/manga is political parody.
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Old 2014-06-02, 21:20   Link #20
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The concept is good means the idea behind the anime. Ex. One Piece having devil fruits, Naruto have chakras etc. Poorly executed, I think, could mean a lot. Execution has many factors to consider. The animation, the "looks" of the characters, the plot. It could mean a lot of things.
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