Code Geass Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[JayF]

200+ posts and not one on if Viletta and Ougi has done the deed.

You disapoint me Animesuki. I thought we were perverted fanboys?

[JediNight]

I forget if it was here or the MT thread, but someone did mention that it seemed like they now had a double bed

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by JayF

200+ posts and not one on if Viletta and Ougi has done the deed.

You disapoint me Animesuki. I thought we were perverted fanboys?

Yes, they did. So what ? Euphie in the middle of a bloodbath with an assault rifle >>> Villeta x Ougi

[dxanato]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Well, if she could mindrape Suzaku sending her power trough metal (Lancelot), i think it is possible for her to send her mindrape signals trough ground as well.

She was not sure it would work when she did that do Suzaku in the Lancelot. She did in order to protect Zero so she did it. Geass some one through ground has is a bit of stretch while plausible is still a stretch for it to happen.

200+ posts and not one on if Viletta and Ougi has done the deed.

You disapoint me Animesuki. I thought we were perverted fanboys?

Honestly had this been the only thing that happen in this episode I think every would be talking about it. It got overshadow by the the fact the Euphie went from animal loving to psycho killer in matter of minutes and Lelouch Geass turn on. The fact Lelouch school days are over and he officially imho is zero. He will give his final farewell call to every one cause there is no way he can face people with out the zero mask.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I don't see it. I seriously don't.

Dude, for months, you're so adamant and arguing that Lulu is an evil heartless bastard with absolutely no good will towards Elevens. How do you explain his actions when he helped the Eleven boy from the nobleman? You think he did it just because for hell of it, and he doesn't actually care?

He didn't save the kid as ZERO, he did it as Lelouch. Why do you always IGNORE these factors?
Your argument always convieniently avoid these circumstantces.

I'm sorry, but no matter how you feel, he is not the same as kira/light, like you suggest.

If you REALLY think he's not gonna care about the blood on his hands from this incident, then I have to conclude that you are missing what we're seeing. Or you're looking at it with a very diffrent view than most.

[Juvyniled]

I'm not drawing a direct comparison between Kira and Lelouch. If you refer to the other poster's comment. he said that Lelouch wasn't as cold as Kira. If you relate the two personalities, you'd have to see that Kira is much more considerate about the well-being of people than Lelouch. I'm not saying Lelouch is heartless, in fact, I'm simply contesting that Lelouch is a kind person. He has a variety of personalities and he is very conscientious. But he's no saint, and likewise he is no sinner. He is a mediation between two distinct characteristics.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by JayF

200+ posts and not one on if Viletta and Ougi has done the deed.

You disapoint me Animesuki. I thought we were perverted fanboys?

bleeh.. im on the Lulu suport group..
Lulu x Suza ftw!

[Varis]

lulu this, lulu that, how could he? He is so heartless, etc etc etc...

And no one even considers the person truly responsible for this and perhaps much much more is C.C.
She may have her reasons but she knows Geass better then anyone else. She chose not to instruct him on it's uses and dangers (vague hints don't count) and so should have seen an accident like this comming.

Now with her flashback to Marianne that Suzaku saw and the fact that she had an eye on lelouche since he was a child makes me wonder if she had anything to do with the assassination of marianne.

This is all bound to get very complicated lol.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Agreed. I do believe the situation benefits him... but to describe Lelouch as having a kind heart? Sure, in this episode he's stepped in to defend the Eleven who was kicked around. Sure, he's saved civilians. But on the opposite side, he's been manipulating people left and right. He's killed people (terrible people yes). He hadn't had to consider the feelings of others up until the point which Shirley's father fell victim to the landslide. I'm just saying, he's definitely got a conscience, but he's no saint.

I dont recall saying he was a saint . Also maybe i chose a wrong phrase ( kind heart ( still i think he has a kind heart toward the people who are getting oppressed or are his friends. like how he saved that japanese boy in this episode))to describe him. Ok lets say he isnt evil and the reason behind his rebellion isnt because of the personal gain, rather to make the world a better place for the weak.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Euphemia didn't call for Zero's death. She merely did what she believed was in Lelouch's best interest, despite not knowing what it was that Lelouch desired in rebelling. Granted, it wasn't intentional what Lelouch did to Euphemia, but no doubt, when he decided to align himself with the proposal he was planning to use her in some manner. Does he necessarily have to disband the Order? They won't be given reason to fight back anymore, although, they can do other things that can disrupt the empire without having to use physical violence. It's not how Lelouch would prefer to do things, but it still works for him nonetheless. He didn't design the order around liberating Japan; he used a more flexible term, "justice fighter."

Again when did i say that was her intentions?. I never said her intentions was to kill Lulu. I just said because of her speech, Lulu was putten in a bad situation ( Dead end= all paths closes , not intentions to kill Lulu).

Also about you saying that he wouldnt have had to disband the Oobk ( even after being hinted so many times in anime itself ) i wont argue with you . I guess every one have their own opinions.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I don't see it. I seriously don't. Lelouch isn't focused on the welfare of the Japanese. That is not to say that he is heartless. He still has a conscience, but he's focused on a bigger picture. And Zero doesn't hesitate to deceive, manipulate and murder people. It's not a bad thing at all since that is how his character is. But given his nature, that discredits him as having a 'kind heart'. The only real 'heart' in him left, rests with his sister Nunnally, and no one else really (even if he has played favorites). Compared to Kira, I hate to say it but Lelouch is the devil. Who's more annoying to me? Kira is of course, but not because he's evil (how he's evil I have no clue).

1) He has more support now. But most of all, he didn't want to put EUPHEMIA in this position. Not so sure about the Elevens, but it affected him no doubt when they called out to him for help. He is responsible in a way for their deaths, but he isn't guilty (it wasn't his intention and he did not commit the act).

2) He still cares about Euphemia. She is probably the only half-sibling who he has really cared about. Of course he's going to try to stop her, because it wasn't how he wanted to use her.

3) Is this necessarily a good thing? Certainly Britannia has made itself a target for impressing its influence on other people, but if you take Britannia out of the picture, someone somewhere else will try to vie for power. It still could in fact be a good thing though.

Ok i think this is now the 3rd or 4th time that you eaither dont read my post or making up on what i said . When did i say Kira was Evil ( its for indivdual people to decide if he is evil or not ofcourse) .I said He was Cold Hearted. He wont hesitate to kill any one if they are even thinking of investigating him.

1) he was feeling guilty about it ( eventhough it wasnt done purposefull) and also he is resposible for stopping it. Because the effects of the order wont go away unless Euphie is killed.
2) Its not using her when she directly tell her that she has to shoot him. From the way i saw it, it was more like He was ( childishly) arguing with her that because she put her in that situation now she has to take responsibilty by shooting him. If he wanted to use her, he would just need to use his geass from the very start. We see at the end He even admits defeat to her .
3) , its not clear to me as what you are trying to say so i cant reply .

Also I think what you said is backward. Lulu wouldnt even think of killing Suzuku or Shirly, while Kira probably would kill Misa or even his dad if he had to without a second thought.

Both Kira and Lulu have the same goal with diffrent method and style. Both want a world where Weaker people can live without being oppressed.

Originally Posted by JediNight

Whitemoon: Somehow I don't think Lelouch can just shrug off the death of 200,000 innocent people like that. And all the Japanese in the stadium would have been a lot of the most sympathetic people to the Order's cause. Remember that Lelouch said that only those that are ready to kill should pick up a gun, and he hasn't done anything evil to bring about the death of tons of civilians. It's obvious that some did die in the landslide, but that wasn't as directly brutal as this, and we see with Shirleys father that there were unintended deaths that he thought he was okay with until it hit close to home.

JediNight, I think you misundrestood what i meant and said.

First of all that wasnt what Lulu said. What you said he said was " those who are willing to kill should pick up a gun" and what He actually said " only those who are willing to be shot at, can shoot others" and these two statements are completely diffrent. So basically Lulu meant to say, Only soldiers can fight with each other and He wont involve any civilian in his battle. That is the very reason he didnt use those japanese civilians and told Euphie to shoot him ( Zero) and not the civilians. Also he didnt order Euphie to kill them on purpose. They were just chit chatting ( after Lulu accepted defeat) and when Lulu was trying to show off his power, His Geass activated. He didnt even notice he had geassed her untill a few second after.

Also i agree with you about that it wasnt his fault , about what happend. Now that we are on the same page,

Its still a fact that eventhough Lulu didnt want for that massacre to happen, he did take advantage of the situation and ordered for battle. And i belive Euphie will be killed , because the way Lulu ( not purposely) ordered , is probably a permanent order ( like the one he used on that girl in the school) and so to save japanese people he had to order to kill her.

I really feel sorry for Lulu, because he really didnt wanted anything to happend to Euphie and he was really sad about it.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I'm not drawing a direct comparison between Kira and Lelouch. If you refer to the other poster's comment. he said that Lelouch wasn't as cold as Kira. If you relate the two personalities, you'd have to see that Kira is much more considerate about the well-being of people than Lelouch. I'm not saying Lelouch is heartless, in fact, I'm simply contesting that Lelouch is a kind person. He has a variety of personalities and he is very conscientious. But he's no saint, and likewise he is no sinner. He is a mediation between two distinct characteristics.

No one's saying he's a saint.
But we're saying, he's not so megalomanically evil that he won't give a rat's ass about Eleven's deaths on his hands.
Even though fate of Elevens are aren't directly related to his goals, he's still willing to take responsibilities for his actions killing many of them.

Your argument is that he simply doesn't care. Elevens fate has absolutely no effect on him. Which is total off, if you were actually watching this episode.

[Juvyniled]

C.C. could ultimately be held responsible, but it's really up to Lelouch to determine how to use his abilities. Granted, it's not Lelouch's fault the situation turned out as it did. Yet, he will likely hold himself accountable for it. Lelouch can't be expected to know that that his powers would evolve to the point where he can't deactivate it. So I wouldn't pass blame onto him. Though had C.C. not intervened with Lelouch backed up into a corner, he would've very likely been dead. Yes, she didn't give him a choice, but he didn't have the luxury of time to ask her about it.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by aohige

No one's saying he's a saint.
But we're saying, he's not so megalomanically evil that he won't give a rat's ass about Eleven's deaths on his hands.
Even though fate of Elevens are aren't directly related to his goals, he's still willing to take responsibilities for his actions killing many of them.

Your argument is that he simply doesn't care. Elevens fate has absolutely no effect on him. Which is total off, if you were actually watching this episode.

I don't like quoting myself but her it goes:

But most of all, he didn't want to put EUPHEMIA in this position. Not so sure about the Elevens, but it affected him no doubt when they called out to him for help.

Up until this point, he may or may not have had much interest in improving the status of Elevens. It is really only now that he has something weighing on his conscience that makes him fully aware of the plight that the Elevens are facing.

[SinsI]

From the looks of the preview,

Spoiler for Violetta:

she's going to be in big trouble, being a Brittanian and getting into the hands of a lynch crowd. She might kick the bucket even before Yuffie does. And since tragic love is a must in anime, probability of Ougi scoring is extremely high.

[Juvyniled]

Apologies to you Whitemoon, I was under the assumption that you referred to Kira from GS. Makes more sense now. Didn't realize it was Kira from Death Note until you made a reference to Misa. Haven't seen Death Note yet, so I am still blank on the references, though I have a general idea how they are related.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I don't like quoting myself but her it goes:

Up until this point, he may or may not have had much interest in improving the status of Elevens. It is really only now that he has something weighing on his conscience that makes him fully aware of the plight that the Elevens are facing.

Sorry, I did infact overlook that quote.
So you agree that with the recent development, he will move with more conciousness towards the well-being of those who he control?
I've always figured he would, even without the most recent episode.
The most recent development only cemented that.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by aohige

So you agree that with the recent development, he will move with more conciousness towards the well-being of those who he control?

Absolutely. It's just prior to this, he hasn't shown real dedication to helping Elevens. He primarily played a role as a mediator of justice during that time.

[JayF]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Yes, they did. So what ? Euphie in the middle of a bloodbath with an assault rifle >>> Villeta x Ougi

Nonesense. Although Geassed Euphie >>> Normal Euphie. Villeta always >>> Euphie although machine gun Euphie is psycho hawt.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Yeah Trainwreck, riiiiiiiiight. Looks like the Sunrise haters were wrong again last episode with Euphemia's speech somehow spelling the doom of the series and turning her into goddess Lacus. Here's to seeing when people will point out a perfectly stable train track yet again in the future.

I haven't seen episode 21 yet, but I will try to explain the "Trainwreck Mentality" as such. Long mecha series often have their weaker episodes compared to the rest of the bunch, it doesn't mean its a downward slope, it just means a slow episode, some people are haunted by the phantoms of Gundam Seed Destiny and are wary of such repetition even though that was a different team, thus a slow episode causes the equivalent reaction of a poor showing at the NY Stock Exchange (Sell, Sell, Stocks Gonna Tank Dump it NOOOOOW!). Then the stock rebounds to make it even stronger the next day and the traders are more than a little embarassed.

[Owaranai Destiny]

About episode 22:

OH.MY.GOD.

All right, I gotta give it to Sunrise. I wasn't 100% convinced they could pull some things that happened in the episode off, and looking at the number of replies, it doesn't seem like I'm the only one shocked out of my pants.

Spoiler:

As usual, the blame game starts. Personally I don't think Lelouch is to blame entirely, though perhaps he had forgotten the reminder that using GEASS would 'isolate him from normal people'. I had a hunch that overusing GEASS would cause such problems-with every usage comes an increment in power-which would explain the apparent permanent GEASS for Lelouch. Now he has yet another reason why he wouldn't want Suzaku to know that he is Zero. While Lelouch might struggle to come to grips with killing his best friend, Suzaku might seem to be a little more impulsive. Anything can happen.

It's hard to see Euphie getting out of this one easily. After all, the Special Region would almost seem like a trap for the Elevens and while it deals in favour of Zero and the OoBK, it certainly is another step to isolating him from other people. It will probably be a miracle if Lelouch isn't driven insane at the end of season 2 at the rate he's going.

I'm really extremely sympathetic with Lelouch now. So many times foiled, and none of them with controllable factors. Because of him, he has to order the death of another loved one.

That being said, I wonder how the royals are going to act in regards to this incident. Obviously if Suzaku finds Euphie and hears her out, Zero's identity might come one dangerous step closer to being unveiled. I can't even imagine how Cornelia would react. Certainly she would have lost little sleep over the slaughtering of Elevens, but those were innocents, and it WAS her sister who 'ordered' the killing.

As for Schneizel...Apparently he doesn't seem so bad, after seeing that expression on his face when he heard the news. The Emperor, however, makes me think that the son of a bitch is actually happy about this, as though it was something he expected to happen. It appears he might actually be the one with the real mind-reading GEASS on the chessboard between him and Lelouch-That is, already knowing what's going to happen.

Want to blame someone? Turn your rotten tomatoes to the bastard sitting pretty on the golden seat of Brittania.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by philip72

Does anyone have any speculation on the connection between CC and Lulu's mom?

It seems to me this episode was dropping hints about a link between the two.

Maybe there's something in there that caused someone to murder Lu-2's mother.

Something bothers me though. The series starts as "Find C.C.!" and for 20+ eps she get's to roam free and clear and pizza herself to death

Look, she even got out of Gawain in sight of those Brita guards, and yet they didn't capture her. This is what happens when you keep projects secret, so many chances to capture her and yet no one does because they all remember her as "poison gas"

On a side note, gunning Euphie is impressive never thought a girl who looks so royally beautiful can actually do that. Did the whacked out Geass make her strong too? I mean, that was some sick recoil on that gun

So, thing's I'm looking for next ep:

-Cornelia and Euphie getting some alone time. With Cornelia doing the biatch slapping
-Need to see Euphie watch tapes of her "atrocities". Want to see the look on her face, and I make wonders if she will then try to remember what happened.
-Is Lu-2's Geass eye visible? It would be funny for the next step in evolution, where he just can't keep it from everyone. Next we'll need to give him a special eye-patch that will lets him Geass others Cyclops-style Try going to school now!


Meh not much Kallen this ep. Guess I'll go back to the previous eps And that Villeta, I find something creepy. Or maybe I'm just not used to her calm, collected self. Or maybe she's a reverse-psycho girl

Is this the season of psycho girls? Surely this ep Euphie counts as a psycho girl, although not self-inflicted