Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[kuroihikari2]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

See the entirety of Asuki forum alone. How many threads of shows from 2003-2005 is still this active talking and debating about the same or similar things over and over again? Even if there are any, those are few and far between and pretty much exception to the rule. Even Gundam 00 thread(s) has been properly abandoned because there’s no new news and there’s nothing new to talk about the anime (and Gundam 00 is really popular).

I think the remasters had a little something to do with it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

I think the remasters had a little something to do with it.

Yes, I already count that, but this thread is already very much active before and after the Remaster-airing talking about the likes of the characters, Kira/Freedom vs Shinn/Impulse, Destiny Plan and many other recycled topics again and again and again. That's why Brightman said what he said.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

See the entirety of Asuki forum alone. How many threads of shows from 2003-2005 is still this active talking and debating about the same or similar things over and over again? Even if there are any, those are few and far between and pretty much exception to the rule. Even Gundam 00 thread(s) has been properly abandoned because there’s no new news and there’s nothing new to talk about the anime (and Gundam 00 is really popular).

As far as AnimeSuki is concerned, it's just a matter of circumstance.

1. SEED aired around the same time as the beginning of the forum.
2. SEED and SEED Destiny also aired during a time when posters can freely create new threads.
3. SEED and SEED Destiny share the same subforum as 00, which is popular.
4. SEED and SEED Destiny just had their HD Remaster releases.

and finally,

5. A single (semi?-)active thread isn't anything that special. As long as someone has something to say, which may happen when someone is watching it for the first time, someone else can form a response.

[Aquaman OS]

The two warring fanbases never stopped. They just eventually lose their breath since both sides loudly shout the same thing and nobody wants to hear what the other side has to say.

Spark up the fire with a hot button issue like Freedom vs Impulse or Destiny Plan good or bad, or was Durandal really evil or were Kira and Lacus just paranoid and too self rightous to believe someone not part of their little group wasn't a bad guy....and they'll come running to start up the same arguement again.

And it's ALWAYS a varation of the same thing. Team Kira vs Team Shinn.

Heck the only reason we aren't arguing about this weekly over here is because most of the really obnoxious guys either aren't part of the forum, or can't keep their temper in check and get banned.

Seed Forum basically shut down (it's still there, but gets maybe one new post every 6 months) because all people talked about once Destiny ended was Kira vs Shinn, until they were blue in the face, got banned, simply gave up, or all of the above.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by brightman

Sorry for stirring things up guys. Didn't think there are still so many passionate Kira fans here. Seed is still serious business ten years later. Lol

Kira and lacus have remained on top 10 popularity polls for all animes, not just gundam polls, Somewhat consistently for these 10 years so it's not surprising

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

As far as AnimeSuki is concerned, it's just a matter of circumstance.

1. SEED aired around the same time as the beginning of the forum.
2. SEED and SEED Destiny also aired during a time when posters can freely create new threads.
3. SEED and SEED Destiny share the same subforum as 00, which is popular.
4. SEED and SEED Destiny just had their HD Remaster releases.

and finally,

5. A single (semi?-)active thread isn't anything that special. As long as someone has something to say, which may happen when someone is watching it for the first time, someone else can form a response.

Point 1 2 3 don’t really negate my point. In fact, in enforce it as point 1, 2, (and to some extend 3) also applies to other less popular original series which threads are pretty much dead now. Point 4 I already addressed above your post. As for point 5, many members here tried to revive old original anime threads and most of them only result in two or three members' response which replies don’t even last a page (unless there’s a fresh news). Meanwhile, like Aquaman OS said above “Spark up the fire with a hot button issue like Freedom vs Impulse or Destiny Plan good or bad, or was Durandal really evil or were Kira and Lacus just paranoid and too self righteous to believe someone not part of their little group wasn't a bad guy…” and fans that have strong opinions on those things will come flocking to engage in (sometimes) looong conversations and debates defending what they believe in no matter how many times the topics have been repeated and recycled.

[brightman]

Thank you Obelisk. I doubt anyone here feel that strongly about 00 ship wars and whatever it was we discussed about AGE (mainly how good/crappy it was?) these days.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Point 1 2 3 don’t really negate my point. In fact, in enforce it as point 1, 2, (and to some extend 3) also applies to other less popular original series which threads are pretty much dead now. Point 4 I already addressed above your post. As for point 5, many members here tried to revive old original anime threads and most of them only result in two or three members' response which replies don’t even last a page (unless there’s a fresh news). Meanwhile, like Aquaman OS said above “Spark up the fire with a hot button issue like Freedom vs Impulse or Destiny Plan good or bad, or was Durandal really evil or were Kira and Lacus just paranoid and too self righteous to believe someone not part of their little group wasn't a bad guy…” and fans that have strong opinions on those things will come flocking to engage in (sometimes) looong conversations and debates defending what they believe in no matter how many times the topics have been repeated and recycled.

It's not any single part. It's all of them combined that gives reason for why there has been sustained discussion on SEED/Destiny on this forum.

And strong opinions exist with other shows as well, even if not to all shows.

also applies to other less popular original series

Well, less popular shows tend not to last as long either, especially if they don't have other things going for them.

Originally Posted by brightman

Thank you Obelisk. I doubt anyone here feel that strongly about 00 ship wars

I'm surprised if such a thing even existed.

and whatever it was we discussed about AGE (mainly how good/crappy it was?) these days.

I think the problem here may be that people, in general, don't feel that strongly about AGE in the first place.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

And it's ALWAYS a varation of the same thing. Team Kira vs Team Shinn.

I'm with Team Athrun. Just saying...

[Aquaman OS]

Athrun's on Team Kira. There is no Team Athrun.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Athrun's on Team Kira. There is no Team Athrun.

LOL



Im on Team Who Gives a Shit (for those who dont care or those smart enough to not let this crap get to them)

^^^Official party btw

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

And it's ALWAYS a varation of the same thing. Team Kira vs Team Shinn.

I'd say that's a bit of an oversimplification. Sure, when the show first started, that's how the battle lines were drawn. But something interesting happened in the past decade... Team Kira has largely moved on. Sure, we have a few crazies here and there, but by and large the whole "Kira rules, Shinn drools!" sentiment that was so popular shortly before and early on Destiny's run is mostly gone.

Team Shinn does is still fighting that old battle... And since arguments beget extremism, we've reached a point where we get crazy comments like "there is no reason to believe Durandal tried to kill Lacus" or "Archangel are terrorists who try to boss everyone around" or "He magically solved problems using Jedi mind tricks like, "think about tomorrow!" which converts the most hardcore of enemy followers into his own mind slaves. "

The Destiny fanbase is an incredibly interesting microcosm of how humans argue...

[kuroihikari2]

I don't even get the hate with Kira in Destiny. Yes, he's absurdly overpowered in his favorite MS(s) and a one-track mind with regards to his goal of eradicating wars, which results to him accomplishing ridiculous things. But it's not like the means and the ends to his goals are bad at all.

Shinn, on the other hand really tried his hardest to do good, but unfortunately fell victim to manipulation and misinformation. I can't really hate him because of that.

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

Shinn, on the other hand really tried his hardest to do good, but unfortunately fell victim to manipulation and misinformation. I can't really hate him because of that.

That's pretty much what his character is meant to be. He's a tragic hero. Just that a majority of the fans can't accept that type of development for a main protagonist.

By no means am I saying it was done perfectly. But a lot of Gundam fans need to realize that a heroic-type development isn't the only type of development for a main protagonist. Keep in mind that I am basing what I said through the many comments on the internet about why they didn't like Destiny. A majority said that Shinn didn't get any development with the thought that Shinn is a Kamille which is quite the biggest mistake people make with Destiny. They think that Destiny is a 21st century Zeta, except they are two completely different shows with only similarities that does not make them the same show.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

That's pretty much what his character is meant to be. He's a tragic hero. Just that a majority of the fans can't accept that type of development for a main protagonist.

By no means am I saying it was done perfectly. But a lot of Gundam fans need to realize that a heroic-type development isn't the only type of development for a main protagonist. Keep in mind that I am basing what I said through the many comments on the internet about why they didn't like Destiny. A majority said that Shinn didn't get any development with the thought that Shinn is a Kamille which is quite the biggest mistake people make with Destiny. They think that Destiny is a 21st century Zeta, except they are two completely different shows with only similarities that does not make them the same show.

you need to tell that to Shin fan too
they like SRW version since his character was typical hero character instead of tragic hero

typical hero, was from villain side > then join hero side
(example: Athrun)

[Rising Dragon]

The big issue with Kira and Shinn in Destiny was A) how Kira was depicted as nigh emotionless in the first run, as well as the focus suddenly shifting to him after the Freedom got shot down), and B) how Shinn's development, or lack thereof, was depicted. Both were handled poorly, and a lot of us took offense to it.

I won't touch on Kira/Lacus being "evil" or going "overboard" or crap like that, 'cause that's just idiots being idiots.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The big issue with Kira and Shinn in Destiny was A) how Kira was depicted as nigh emotionless in the first run, as well as the focus suddenly shifting to him after the Freedom got shot down), and B) how Shinn's development, or lack thereof, was depicted. Both were handled poorly, and a lot of us took offense to it.

I won't touch on Kira/Lacus being "evil" or going "overboard" or crap like that, 'cause that's just idiots being idiots.

even though SHin still get some scene from his pov, but it's was few,
it would be a lot better if they show him falling to become same thing he hate.

after all, if they want him to become fallen hero, they might as well go all out
instead of moving to hero group pov most of time

true to be told, they shoot themselves in knee when the re-add Kira and co.
as main characters again since they need to add his whole crew alongside him
example: Mu, Ramius, AA grunt(..etc) will need to get scene too

which give Shin side even lower scene time till point we only see 3~4 characters from Shin pov side...

but I don't thing Kira being emotionless have anything to do with it
(he was just at peak of his character development from seed
but people didn't like that so they change it in SE/recap movie)

about evil,
evil = everyone not from you side
even though durandal was trying to remove human freedom to choice to grow up to whatever they want, shin still think of the three alliance as evil

about going overboard: durandal nuke whole country because they refused to accept to become his DNA slave

(about durandal plan> even if you dream to become doctor and study hard till you pass best university with A(3.5) mark > if you DNA said you are better as janitor > then that the only job you will get...

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The big issue with Kira and Shinn in Destiny was A) how Kira was depicted as nigh emotionless in the first run, as well as the focus suddenly shifting to him after the Freedom got shot down

But exactly what did the show focus on him about? Especially as a character. What was really focused on about Kira besides him appearing on screen?

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

But exactly what did the show focus on him about? Especially as a character. What was really focused on about Kira besides him appearing on screen?

well there are many things but the main one that people use and legitimately so is the final confrontation which is done by the main character and the current main villain is between durandal and kira, not shinn and durandal and not shinn and kira, but kira and durandal, then theres the episode meer dies, also his battle with rey and pretty much every thing after the second battle of orb is focused on athrun and kira and the archangel crew and it considerably noticable,

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

But exactly what did the show focus on him about? Especially as a character. What was really focused on about Kira besides him appearing on screen?

Nothing. But you could say the same thing about Shinn. He started out an angry bitter person lashing out at the world because of his personal issues, and ended exactly the same way. He showed hints of possibly developing from this, but they were always quickly reversed. His entire development only happens in the final plus where instead of continuing to hold onto his grudges and let them feed him like he did the entire show, he was able to move on.

Honestly the only one who develops at any point before suddenly at the last minute is Athrun, who is shown lost in his new environment now in peacetime where Cagalli has little time for him and he's mostly viewed as an outsider in Orb and longing to be back in Zaft where he's well known and can be a big part of it, only to find that he's changed thanks to his experiences being with Orb and the TSA and no longer fits in with Zaft, and returns to Orb content that he can make it work and it's better for him there anyway.

And even that was handled halfassed and poorly with Athrun switching from being pissed at Kira and co and largely pro Zaft to suddenly taking their side with no major development prompting this.

Development and plot is not one of Destiny's strong points. Half the show just seems like poorly planned out excuses for the cast to pick fights with each other.