Lucky Star - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[iamandragon]

I think what people mean by AK not qualified to define 'moe' is because his feelings might create a biased definition?
IMO, to define an emotion, you must have experienced that particular emotion, but in order to express it clearly in an unbiased fashion, you must have not have feeling of that emotion.
Well that's easy, let's make AK loose his emotions then he will qualify.

Wait. Not till he finishes drawing the MSN series, I'm still hooked to it!

[Risaa]

This has been bothering me everytime I watch it. Right at 9:16, Kona-chan says something like, "otto matta Kagamiya". Did I write that correctly, and what is that referencing?

[Vexx]

I don't have my episode handy... but I thought she said "chotto mata, Kagami ya" ... asking her to "hold on a minute"??? I'll check when I get home or unless someone corrects my faulty memory..

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I don't have my episode handy... but I thought she said "chotto mata, Kagami ya" ... asking her to "hold on a minute"??? I'll check when I get home or unless someone corrects my faulty memory..

I mean, I'm certain the meaning must be the same ("hold on a minute") because it would make sense..

I keep thinking I'm missing the "cho" in "chotto" but no matter how many times I play it, I hear it without, just "otto". Am I going crazy or does someone else hear that too? @_@

Edit-ness: Robertness just clued me in that "Kagamiya" might be a corruption of "Kagami-yan". I've never heard of "yan", but he says Silvi (Sylvi? Shirubi?) from Rikujou Boueitai Mao-chan (genki, kawaii series BTW) uses it when addressing Mao-chan. Oh, and she uses some strange variety of Osaka-ben. Hrmm.

[Vexx]

Kona mutters and mangles like crazy... it makes it challenging to translate her written dialog in the manga - she plays with her words so much. aye... I just assumed the "ya" was a corruption of "yan" ... or even a lazy ass version of "chiyan" or gods knows what.

[Samatarou]

Originally Posted by Risaa

This has been bothering me everytime I watch it. Right at 9:16, Kona-chan says something like, "otto matta Kagamiya". Did I write that correctly, and what is that referencing?

Sounds slightly more like "outo matta kagamiya" to me; the way she says it sounds like she's imitating someone else's manner of speech though I've no idea who (famous personality? Yoda?). "Outo" means vomiting... I don't suppose she's really telling Kagami to hold her vomit though...

[Vexx]

Hmmm, after listening to it far too many times... I keep interpreting it as
'otto matta, Kagamiya (fixed via Risaa brain-slap, sumimasen)
She does seem to be channeling someone in a Yoda sort of way.... I'll wager she's doing an impression of *someone* a j-geek would recognize who says that line.
How many of us use movie lines inserted into our daily speech patterns and try to do an impression. My older son can do a scarily perfect impression of Stitch, for example.
<shrug> I'll stick with the interp that she's being mangly casual with:
chotto matta, Kagami-chiyan (see above)
unless someone can come up with something brilliant (a.f.k. seems to think it was a mangled "wait a minute" as well... EnA hasn't released #3 yet so no touchpoint there)

edit: Yotsuba is referred to repeatedly throughout the Yotsuba series as "Yotsuba-chiyan" .... yet googling and my books provide me absolutely no reference to the honorific (which I finally assumed was some silly way to address her like "Little Mistress Yotsuba"). o the fun of figuring this stuff out...
Suffixes can also be combined in a more or less humorous manner, like "-chama" (chan + sama), as in "obaa-chama" for "grand-mother", which is both affectionate and respectful. There is a lot of freedom in the possible combinations.

If there's anything I've learned so far is that if there is a way to shorten casual speech and increase the ambiguity in Japanese... somewhere its being done.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Samatarou-san

Sounds slightly more like "outo matta kagamiya" to me; the way she says it sounds like she's imitating someone else's manner of speech though I've no idea who (famous personality? Yoda?). "Outo" means vomiting... I don't suppose she's really telling Kagami to hold her vomit though...

That's my guess as well. I think she's intimidating imitating someone...

Originally Posted by Vexx

chotto mata, Kagami-chiyan

Sorry to be nitpicky, but I insist it's "chotto matta". "Wait" is "matsu", which conjugates to "matta" (though I hear "chotto matte" more often). Besides... "mata" means "groin", so Kona-chan would be saying "small groin, Kagami-chiyan".

(I suppose unless you mean the "mata" as in the adverb, like "mata ashita". But that's not as fun. )

[Vexx]

No... thats just my brain not working right.... I have no idea why I was typing it without the double cons that way. I've seen it typed "matte" and "matta" so YMMV.
Edited and credit for Great Justice...

[kenjiharima]

ahhh...finally watched the subs!! Sorry I can't understand most Japanese words.
I gave it a 10 since Kona-chan's giggles are to cute to resist and the way she plays with Kagami is to funny. Hahaha...reminds me of my friend and I. It's really a slice of life...but I hope to see more characters in the future episodes.

[DragoonKain3]

@Bozzy
WinD's the 'textbook' version of the subs; if they can be represented by a character in LS, it would be Miyuki. Almost everything is translated (signs, books etc), and there's lots of footnotes to read (of which makes the most sense out of all the subs, see charms portion of this ep). On top of that, they have even more detailed notes over at their forums, which IMO is a great read for anyone the least bit interested in Japanese culture.

They also have the most understandable subs for the OP, though it can be argued that the OP wasn't meant to be understood in the first place. XD

They translated 'otto matta kagaminya' as 'Hey, wait right there, Kagamin', for those wondering.

[Meophist]

Isn't "otto" a boyish way of saying "chotto"?

[Vexx]

Dunno.... can't find any reference cites for that either.

A line so simple that requires so much churning kind should kind of make it clear how much fun it is to translate this particular work (and just how much the "business japanese" most people learn can vary from "daily japanese". I frequently pick at my instructor to include the variances because most of the people who take her class aren't learning it for "business" reasons. More often they want to talk to new family members, or grandchildren, or they're going to take a trip, or they'd like to make their coworkers more comfortable (we have more than a few bilingual companies in the area). Where she draws the line is that she's only going to cover "Tokyo-ben" even though she herself is not from Tokyo .

[Tatsumiko]

Heheheheheheh....VERY nice try Lucky star girls...

talking about several animes making them sound like theyre living in reality.

well im not buying it >)....I will not fully compare anime's with real-life...well..maybe sometimes... T-T"

..ah!...gotta get busy on my new sig!....:3

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Meophist

Isn't "otto" a boyish way of saying "chotto"?

Where did you get that idea from (what source)?

I'm just really intrigued by the line and how she says it, but also I was thinking of adding it to a so far, very simple wallpaper. I'm thinking of a Kona-chan wallpaper with her saying something directed at Kagami, and having aggravated-Kagami icons scattered around my desktop. I like "otto matta Kagamiya" so far because Kona-chan says it in such a snide voice.

Originally Posted by Vexx

A line so simple that requires so much churning kind should kind of make it clear how much fun it is to translate this particular work (and just how much the "business japanese" most people learn can vary from "daily japanese". I frequently pick at my instructor to include the variances because most of the people who take her class aren't learning it for "business" reasons. More often they want to talk to new family members, or grandchildren, or they're going to take a trip, or they'd like to make their coworkers more comfortable (we have more than a few bilingual companies in the area). Where she draws the line is that she's only going to cover "Tokyo-ben" even though she herself is not from Tokyo .

Waa, that reminds me of my sensei from last semester. She claimed to be trilingual, so the class asked her what other language she knows besides Japanese and English. She replied, "Kansai-ben". XD! (My Japanese teachers are the only teachers I've ever had in which I've been tempted to call them "adorable", but that feels wrong. ) We then got her to say a few lines in Kansai-ben, wa, omoshirokatta, I wish I could take a class just on different Japanese dialects.

At MIT, they primarily teach keigo (business Japanese), which is understandable... It just gives me a weird feeling whenever my friend (who attends MIT) speaks to me in keigo while I'm speaking informally to her. The bad thing about learning keigo (IMO) is that it has made me very nervous while speaking to teachers in Japanese... I really need to get used to keigo.

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Risaa

Where did you get that idea from (what source)?

I have absolutely no idea. It just felt like that to me, I guess.

[Vexx]

Not to derail from ep 3 or the translation... but yes... every japanese teacher my sons or I have had were also adorable (little sprites). But I'll even add the elderly retired candy manufacturing executive I had one session, he was a real character ). The Russian teacher I had in college was adorable as well -- and she always said she'd prefer teaching us Russian at the pub.

My current japanese instructor is probably 10 years older than me, looks half my age, and gets that "bad little kid" gleam in her eye that makes her look even younger.

Right... back to translation fun....

[dahl_moon]

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?

It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by dahl_moon

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?

It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

It is a shinto shrine... but yes, it is a fairly fancy one (might run about $1200?). It isn't unusual to keep them in the den/family room area, sometimes next to the buddhist 'ancestor remembrance' altar. (Ours is a lot smaller and lurks in the entertainment/library area).

I think its a subtle indication that the two sisters are fairly well off.

[Furudanuki]

Originally Posted by dahl_moon

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?

It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

A household Shinto shrine would be 神棚 "kamidana"
It may be larger than usual since the twins' father is a priest (from ep#2) .

Edit - Seems I was a tad late...