Episode 12 Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)

[Loki_Sama]

I agree GUTB_....... For all of you that Diss Mitsuki, she is the most NOBLE character , strong yet that also makes her so fragil among all. Ok Haruka is the sweet inocent one....but we only saw her character in the first 2 eps, she didnt have much character development.....so we cant say that Haruka is a kinda psyco chick >_<!

Akane......OMG, she took all that pain in place of her sister too....I just LOVE HER >_<!

Bakayuki.....mmm its not worht wasting time,worsds and forum space ¬_¬

Shinji...Man he always loved Mitsuki (Hayase for him!!) but never interfeared with Taka and her, until on ep 11...he got hit in hes weak spot....I just loved it when he told Bakayuki.......that WHY HIM!!!!!! WHY!!!!! that he was the only one that could make her happy, yet...all he does is hurt her even more!!!!! DAMMIT.....it Felt so good to see Shinji Beat the crap out of CAKAYUKI!!! yeah!!!!! but it was too good to last longer......the Manager came to the rescue.....

OH well.......did you guys notice Ayu? how she like understood the situation and didnt bother, just took MayuMayu along......damm...

Oh well, im typing too much, nobody even reads what i write so i will just stop

[I-Am-The-Ghost]

These opinions are based on the anime only. I haven't played the game.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the Takayuki and Haruka relationship was a sham to begin with. Takayuki only went out with Haruka because he was a nice guy. Later he tries to break up with her because he knew that his feelings were really for Mitsuki. He stays with Haruka only after hearing the story of why Mitsuki became his friend. The real meaning behind the story was "If you break up with Haruka, I can't hang around you anymore." Takayuki and Mitsuki both had feelings for each out, but they didn't know how each other felt. After awhile, Takayuki starts to develop feelings for Haruka, but he still has feelings for Mitsuki.

Mitsuki didn't give up her future just for Takayuki, she did it for herself also. She felt very guilty for the condition that Haruka and Takayuki were in after the accident and wanted to make amends for it. After sometime, Mitsuki and Takayuki finally get together, but they were never truely happy. The Haruka incident was still hanging over their heads and their current relationship was plagued by guilt. Then Haruka woke up from her coma and everything fell apart (shows that their relationship really wasn't that strong to begin with). Takayuri feels that it's his responsibility to see Haruka through this. Both Mitsuki and Akane later can see how someone could be sucked in by Haruka. Even though Mitsuki and Akane are both mad at Takayuki, they can't really blame him for dealing with the Haruka situation the way he has.

The reason why Takayuki didn't get mad when he found it out that Mitsuki cheated on him was because he saw it coming. In the beginning, Takayuki was trying to make everyone happy, but that didn't work. For one person to be happy, one person must suffer. He didn't realize that, until he started to notice that Mitsuki and he were growing further apart. It was just a matter of time before something happened and when it did Takayuki just couldn't get mad. I've been a situation when I knew something was going to go bad and when it did go bad I couldn't do anything but laugh. I didn't get mad or sad because I had already dealt with the outcome beforehand.

Shinji has messed up everyone's life. He ruined his friendship with Mitsuki and his friendship with Takayuki is now on the skids. Sure Takayuki should have beaten the crap out of Shinji, but that wouldn't cause time to go back and take Shinji's **** out of Mitsuki's *****. What's done is done and fighting about it won't change a thing. Personally, I would have fought back, though.

It's not entirely true that Takayuki hasn't help anyone. He just hasn't helped Mitsuki. :P Shinji on the other has only caused problems. He took advantage of a drunk, severely depressed, and near suicidal Mitsuiki and completely blames Takayuki for it. Yes, Takayuki was partly to blame, but Shinji also wanted it to happen since he was in "love" with her. In the end, Shinji cared less about Mitsuki than Takayuki. If Shinji really cared for Mitsuki, he would have rejected her advances. Having sex with someone you love and know is in love with someone else will only cause more hurt for the person you love. After their encounter, Mitsuki regrets what she has done and even has a hard time looking at Shinji knowing that she has betrayed Takayuki with his "best friend." He has only caused her more pain and blames Takayuki for his mistake. When I first saw Shinji, I knew that he was in love with Mitsuki and that he would (or at least try to) sleep with her. I despise characters/people like him and he has no right giving Takayuki relationship advice.

Also, Mitsuki reminds me of Akemi from Saikano except Akemi is more loveable and she doesn't betray her best friend (until the end). In fact, the relationships in this series reminds me a lot of Saikano.

Takayuki = Shuji
Haruka = Chise
Mitsuki = Akemi
Shinji = Atsuishi

People who have seen Saikano will see what I mean.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by I-Am-The-Ghost

These opinions are based on the anime only. I haven't played the game.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the Takayuki and Haruka relationship was a sham to begin with. Takayuki only went out with Haruka because he was a nice guy. Later he tries to break up with her because he knew that his feelings were really for Mitsuki. He stays with Haruka only after hearing the story of why Mitsuki became his friend. The real meaning behind the story was "If you break up with Haruka, I can't hang around you anymore." Takayuki and Mitsuki both had feelings for each out, but they didn't know how each other felt. After awhile, Takayuki starts to develop feelings for Haruka, but he still has feelings for Mitsuki.

Also, Mitsuki reminds me of Akemi from Saikano except Akemi is more loveable and she doesn't betray her best friend (until the end). In fact, the relationships in this series reminds me a lot of Saikano.

Takayuki = Shuji
Haruka = Chise
Mitsuki = Akemi
Shinji = Atsuishi

People who have seen Saikano will see what I mean.

The anime didn't do a very good job of showing it, but Takayuki and Haruka were going out for at least a month before the festival in ep 2. You're right, he didn't have feelings for her at first, but by the time of the accident he did love her.

Haruka != Chise. I haven't seen Haruka going around killing her own soldiers and millions of innocent people she was supposed to protect. Maybe I missed that episode of KGNE...

[Keitaro]

Nooooo you just reminded me of Akemi, thats something I don't wan't to remember. I remember feeling so depressed when she

Spoiler:

dies in Shuji's arms.

I feel sad again.

[musouka]

The reason Shinji beat the crap out of Takayuki wasn't as noble as people are making it out to be. He wasn't doing it just to "slap some sense into Takayuki". He was doing it because of his frustration that Mitsuki still wanted Takayuki instead of him, which is more of a failing of Mitsuki's than Takayuki's.

Seriously, I doubt Takayuki is capable of changing the way he is to suit Mitsuki. (Or, in real life he probably wouldn't be. This is anime, so I know he'll end up with Mitsuki regardless) Obviously he has problems giving Mitsuki the type of affection she needs. That, to me, tells me that they are not a good couple, because neither one gets what they need from the other in times of crisis.

However, I did like Mitsuki in this episode. I think it takes a lot of courage to do what she did, and it really gave my flagging interest in the series a boost. Too bad I know she'll just end up right back in a relationship with him again in the end. I still don't hate Takayuki either, though.

[I-Am-The-Ghost]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Haruka != Chise. I haven't seen Haruka going around killing her own soldiers and millions of innocent people she was supposed to protect. Maybe I missed that episode of KGNE...

I meant Haruka and Chise both appeared to be very shy and innocent.

[I-Am-The-Ghost]

Originally Posted by musouka

The reason Shinji beat the crap out of Takayuki wasn't as noble as people are making it out to be. He wasn't doing it just to "slap some sense into Takayuki". He was doing it because of his frustration that Mitsuki still wanted Takayuki instead of him, which is more of a failing of Mitsuki's than Takayuki's.

Bingo! I'm glad someone else noticed that also. Forgot to mention that in my first post.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by I-Am-The-Ghost

I meant Haruka and Chise both appeared to be very shy and innocent.

I know, I just hate Chise. By the halfway point of Saikano I was hoping someone would put a bullet in the back of her head. When it was clear that wouldn't work anymore, I was hoping someone would drop many, many nuclear weapons on her.

[JOJOS'STAR]

Its finaly done Takayuki know he his the center of all problemes since he wasent in time to meet Haruka.. Damn I just feel like Takayuki is the kind of guy who would suicide especialy at the end of this episode.

[Mentar]

I think Musouka is mostly on the money here. Most of Shinji's hostility was his frustration that Mitsuki preferred Bakayuki to him, however fueled and ignited by Takayuki's demonstrated indifference. He did however drive home the key truth about the entire anime: The problem is not that Takayuki CANNOT do anything. It is that he DOESN'T do anything. Besides, I bet that alot of people wanted to see Bakayuki decked after all ... I for sure did after the disgusting "You can have her".

It's clear that Mitsuki is not getting ANYTHING of what she needs from Takayuki when she's faltering. On the contrary, it's not the first time that Takayuki is being patched up by her. This imbalance is very obvious to the viewers, and it's astounding that it takes a Shinji to drive this point home to Takayuki.

What Takayuki simply needs to do is to stop his whiny self-pitying pose, come clean with his feelings, make a decision and ACT on it. However, I have the dreadful feeling that this will take until episode 14.

[musouka]

Here's another thing that, admittedly, bothered me about this episode.

When Mitsuki told Takayuki she slept with Shinji, and his reaction wasn't the "right" reaction, she ran out. That, to me, expresses exactly what I said earlier. These two people are not connecting properly.

Really, in my mind, there is no "right" reaction to finding out the person you loved has slept with your best friend. Anger, shock, fear...all of them are viable. Unlike what Mitsuki seems to think anger does not always equal love in that sort of situation.

Just because Takayuki didn't start throwing crap around doesn't mean that he wasn't shocked or upset about it in his own way, as could be clearly seen by the picture of his face and the tilting of the screen. Trying to gauge someone's love by a set reaction is something that shouldn't be done, in my opinion. It's a mistake.

Also, to say Takayuki wasn't upset isn't quite true. It's just that he is a very passive person, and thus, has a passive way of reacting to things. The line where he basically says "I'll give her to you, Shinji" shows how upset he is at both Shinji and Mitsuki. That struck me as a very angry line, purposely callous. I'm just surprised more people didn't catch it.

[I-Am-The-Ghost]

Just something I have to mention.

In high school, Takayuki was pretty much dating Mitsuki and Haruka at the same time. Though Mitsuki and Takayuki weren't officially dating, they were definately more than just good friends. This adds more to Mitsuki and Takayuki's guilt over what happened to Haruka. Takayuki was spending time with Mitsuki when he should have been with his "official" girlfriend.

Also, the characters in this series throw around the word "love" too much. It obvious that none of these characters no what it means to really love someone.

This is off the subject, but if you want to see some real emotional suffering, pay attention to Akemi in Saikano.

[Loki_Sama]

Originally Posted by I-Am-The-Ghost

Just something I have to mention.

In high school, Takayuki was pretty much dating Mitsuki and Haruka at the same time. Though Mitsuki and Takayuki weren't officially dating, they were definately more than just good friends. This adds more to Mitsuki and Takayuki's guilt over what happened to Haruka. Takayuki was spending time with Mitsuki when he should have been with his "official" girlfriend.

This is off the subject, but if you want to see some real emotional suffering, pay attention to Akemi in Saikano.

Man this isnt saikano........if you want to talk about that, go ahead in another thread

You dont see me comparing the Kiminozo anime with the game......because its all really different, even Mitsuki's character is really sad in the anime, it puts her so down..... So please stop with your Saikano stuff......its not the SAME thing

[Tensai_kamen]

Man, talk about coincidence between characters of KgNE and Saikano, your observation is spot on I-Am-The-Ghost.

Another off subject talk, i think Akemi death scene in Saikano was the most emotionally charge scene ever experience in an anime. I always feel like not seing it again whenever i rewatch Saikano cos it is too painful for me to watch.

[Mentar]

Well, citing a breakup scene as evidence that two people don't connect is .. well ... *chuckle*

From Mitsuki's angle, things were fairly obvious. She was clinging to a person in love with someone else. While the viewers may know a bit more, she did not - because she was never told or shown otherwise.

She confesses - he doesn't react.

She indicates his lack of response - he doesn't react.

She gets up and tells him to take care of himself from now on - he doesn't react

She leaves - he asks her to wait

She waits - he doesn't react.

In the _entire_ anime, he has failed to say or do ANYTHING significant in situations like these. Sometimes he has evaded the issue, sometimes he has pretended everything is "daijobou", sometimes he flat-out rejected to talk.

That's what I mean with fumbling the ball. If he's so totally unable to respond during crisis times, it should at least be his goddamn duty to do so when he's thought things through, and he's calm to do so.

Mitsuki did the right thing at the right time in ep12.

[Key Board]

Mitsuki was already exhausted of heart breaks by the time she heard him mutter Haruka's name.

Her confession was just an excuse. She wanted to get out of that relationship.

Remember how long it took him to answer Mitsuki's simple question in episode 3
Remember his half hearted answers he gave her
Remember how he gave her the cold shoulder treatment
And now this...

Mitsuki still loves him, but it's hurting her way too much. She ended the relationship and she's not coming back unless Takayuki himself does something dramatic.

Like, let's see.... grafting a diamond to her ring and apologizing to her perhaps? (Note: this did NOT happen in the game)

[musouka]

The point is, he did react. He was shocked. She just didn't understand his reaction. That's what I mean by "not connecting". Not being able to understand when someone really is upset or angry, is a big issue in a relationship.

I am not saying that Mitsuki has to read his mind and know exactly what he is thinking, because that is unfair. But people's reactions to certain things aren't as cut and dry as Mitsuki, and you for that matter, seem to want to make it. I can tell when someone I love is shocked. They don't have to tell me "I am shocked by what you just said." This is because I know their personality and how they react to things.

You see him as "not reacting". For me, it was obvious that he reacted to what she said. Later on, my assumption was only proven by what he told Shinji. As I said before, that was a very bitter, very (passively) angry sentence. To assume that Takayuki has no reaction just because you think he doesn't isn't taking into account the type of person anime-Takayuki is.

No, Mitsuki wanted a very specific reaction, and when she didn't get what she wanted, that's when she decided to leave. Now, personally, I, again, think she made the right choice, because it is obvious that she doesn't have that type of understanding of Takayuki. AKA, he can't give her what she needs. Likewise, I think Takayuki feels too much pressure from Mitsuki when he is already stressing out over things. Therefore, a break is for the best for both of them. All they are doing is causing one another pain.

[Key Board]

Well.. my point is she didn't really care what his reaction was.

She felt that she already lost the battle the moment Takayuki muttered out Haruka's name. Of course, we don't don't know context of that said scene, but to her it meant she was 2nd place in his heart.

She was hurting too much, and she wanted out of that.

[musouka]

Oh, I understand that. All he's done is cause her pain. Eventually, someone will crack under that. They will either remove themselves from the painful situation, or go numb and sacrifice themselves.

I think Mitsuki did the right thing in getting away from that pain, and I applaud her for it. It just saddens me to know she'll go right back into the relationship once "Takayuki makes up his mind".

(Though I do think that whole "you didn't get mad" deal pretty much showed that she did want a reaction from him, and when she didn't get the one she was looking for--the one that might have left her with a glimmer of hope, in her eyes--that was the final straw.)

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Well.. my point is she didn't really care what his reaction was.

She felt that she already lost the battle the moment Takayuki muttered out Haruka's name. Of course, we don't don't know context of that said scene, but to her it meant she was 2nd place in his heart.

She was hurting too much, and she wanted out of that.

Everyone seems to be missing the reason why Takayuki called out Haruka's name. Mitsuki was holding his hand the way Haruka does during the spell thing she likes to do. Of course Takayuki, in his fever induced state, will think it's Haruka. Mitsuki brought that whole thing on herself. For that reason I found the whole scene very amusing.