Can Orochimaru really make Sasuke stronger than Itachi?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Lollerpants

Can't we just all get along and just call it a plot based move since they wanted Team Seven to each become the "new" Sannin and have the former be their mentors?

No, no we can't.

Anyways. About the whole leaving the village thing which would involve way too many quotes: Itachi basically said don't make friends and let your only goal be to kill me. That never meant that he had to leave the village at all, Sasuke started to lose motivation more or less and not train as hard AFTER joining Team 7.

That's just the thing. Sasuke couldn't stay in the village and still have his main goal be revenge. As he progressed through the ranks of ninja they'd give him more and more missions for the village, these would preoccupy his time and would eventually have to be his main focus. He might be given a mission that would involve facing Itachi, but he'd have to face him with a team and not one-on-one like he desires. Eventually, he'd probably be given his own genin squad and he'd be responsible for their progression and safety. Seeking revenge then would basically be out of the question.

I don't really think Itachi wants Sasuke to become twisted or evil or anything, he just wants to make Sasuke stronger, and from how he sees it hatred is more a motivation force than, let's say, being with your friends. Though also some people may just say that Itachi wants Sasuke to have MS and some crazy thing will happen or whatever, I don't really believe Itachi is an "evil" character.

He hasn't even really shown a killing intent and it seems more or less that he's just bored with the ninja world, in a way.

Uh, he butchered HIS OWN FAMILY

He killed his BEST FRIEND

He told his little brother to kill his best friend. Later, he beat the crap out of him and then tortured him with images of his whole family being killed.

What more do you have do to be considered "evil"?

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by Lollerpants

He hasn't even really shown a killing intent and it seems more or less that he's just bored with the ninja world, in a way.

I don't agree with everything you said, but the boredom bit is probably right on the money. Still, if boredom was his thing and he was really curious about how strong he was, why didn't he spend more time simply hunting down Super S class missing nins? Jiraiya stated that there are ninja out there more troublesome than Orochimaru, ninja that would probably be a good test of power for itachi. He could have been hunting down his fellow Akatsuki members as a Konoha ANBU member if boredom was his game... Sigh... what a waste.

There's a difference however between being evil and being uncaring. For some people, sometimes the means justify the ends. If I have to torture someone to get the information to save my country, then I (george bush) might just do that. Itachi seems of that nature. Efficient to a fault. I won't kill Asuma and Kurenai if I don't have to. Kill Kakashi because I do have to; he knows too much. I won't stay and fight ANBU members because it is too inefficient. This was a scouting mission after all. And so on... You can apply this logic to most of his actions. Why kill shisui? It was necessary for power and in the end it was worth it. Why not kill sasuke? He's not even worth killing, the little worm... Why torture him and tell him to get stronger? So that later he might be worth killing. And so on... he's a little evil, but he doesn't act of evil but out of necessity. If a lion takes over a pride, the first thing he does is kill the cubs from the last male lion leader. The lions not evil. He doesn't have anything against the cubs. Its just business.

Though I do admit, killing the entire clan is quite a mystery...

[kikko_s]

I don't think the question is CAN he. I'm sure he can. Sasuke's got a lot of potential. Everyone, even his own seemingly invincible brother acknowledges it. And after all, the fourth was trained by someone that he himself surpassed. But there's the crux. I don't think Orochimaru would want to train Sasuke to the point of being stronger than he currently is. Just wouldn't make sense. Sasuke didn't join Oro because of loneliness or whatever crap the rest of his minions did. He did it to get power. Once Sasuke figures he has enough, then he'll just bounce.

[Wrath of the Uchiha]

Has Itachi killed others without reason (ignoring clan massacre)? Evil would just be people that kill people without any reason just because it pleases them. Itachi does not do that, he had the perfect chance to kill MANY people but he didn't. That's what I feel differentiates him from being an "evil" character and just a plain misguided one, moreover.

You can be evil and be coolheaded, not every evil guy has to be a psychopath, he fights if he has to, he kills if he has to, remember their goal in Konoha was simply whisking Naruto away.

The moment Kakashi mentioned he knew of Akatsuki, Itachi went into dead serious mode and was ready to kill the other two jounins until Gai appeared and mentined he had alerted even ANBU, of course he realised this would turn into a full fledged war more or lessand they simply left.

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha

of course he realised this would turn into a full fledged war more or lessand they simply left.

I don't know why he cared about avoiding battle, since Akatsuki's had no qualms about attacking major villages and the like after the timeskip. They must have had some sort of policy change, to go from "someone called reinforcements, let's run like hell!" to "let's wreck whatever shit we feel like wrecking"...

[Strmwng]

I think the difference was that Diedra and sasori have mass attack jutsu's like the many pupets and the huge clay things. Where as ITachi and Kisame are probably more smaller scale but highly skilled battles if you get what im poorly trying to say.

[DestinyFate]

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

I don't know why he cared about avoiding battle, since Akatsuki's had no qualms about attacking major villages and the like after the timeskip. They must have had some sort of policy change, to go from "someone called reinforcements, let's run like hell!" to "let's wreck whatever shit we feel like wrecking"...

I remember sasori's 100 puppet can defeat a village?? or did I remember wrong? sorry but my memory was quite lousy

[Wrath of the Uchiha]

I don't know why he cared about avoiding battle, since Akatsuki's had no qualms about attacking major villages and the like after the timeskip. They must have had some sort of policy change, to go from "someone called reinforcements, let's run like hell!" to "let's wreck whatever shit we feel like wrecking"...

He cared about it 'cause he already said their goal was not to start a war, they still had 3 years to get all the jinchuukri, they were basically on a stealth mission assuming no one really knew about them. However once they knew Kakashi was aware of them Itachi was ready then and there to dispose of Asuma and Kurenai.

However the leader must have given them specific orders at that time not to cause too much attention, and fighting with a bunch of jounins including the anbu isn't exactly staying away from the center of attention, hence their retreat.

When Hidan and Kakuzu came after 2.5 years they knew they would meet resistance since they now know the villages are aware of them, hence it was a 'destroy everything in the way, get the jinchuukri and get back' mission.

[EragonJeriel]

Originally Posted by DestinyFate

I remember sasori's 100 puppet can defeat a village?? or did I remember wrong? sorry but my memory was quite lousy

I believe what he said was something like
With these, i took down a whole country

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by EragonJeriel

I believe what he said was something like
With these, i took down a whole country

Was probably a defenseless country like Somalia.

[Neji_Hyuuga]

There's a difference however between being evil and being uncaring. For some people, sometimes the means justify the ends. If I have to torture someone to get the information to save my country, then I (george bush) might just do that. Itachi seems of that nature. Efficient to a fault. I won't kill Asuma and Kurenai if I don't have to. Kill Kakashi because I do have to; he knows too much. I won't stay and fight ANBU members because it is too inefficient. This was a scouting mission after all. And so on... You can apply this logic to most of his actions. Why kill shisui? It was necessary for power and in the end it was worth it. Why not kill sasuke? He's not even worth killing, the little worm... Why torture him and tell him to get stronger? So that later he might be worth killing. And so on... he's a little evil, but he doesn't act of evil but out of necessity. If a lion takes over a pride, the first thing he does is kill the cubs from the last male lion leader. The lions not evil. He doesn't have anything against the cubs. Its just business.

Though I do admit, killing the entire clan is quite a mystery...[/QUOTE]

I completley agree...Itachi isn't killing to spend time or having fun. All the thing he's done until now holds great meaning and moreover plays a great role throughout the whole story. Itachi turned to the darkside ( as many would claim ) after he became anbu. Who knows what he's experinced, seen, or...ENCOUNTER. If what Itachi said to Sasuke after the massacre is true,
" Grow stronger and succumb to hatred...if you are capable of mastering the MS than there will be three people capable of using that dojustu..."

that there is a third Uchiha apart Sasuke and Itachi ( in this case it was clear that he wasn't referring to Kakashi ) still alive and capable of using the Mangekyoushi Sharingan, then i'm pretty sure that this 3rd plays a role in Itachi's transformation. Moreover, Itachi was talking about the Uchiha's dark history cursed fate. Something " inside Uchiha " drove him to slay the entire clan.

THere could be two reasons why he spared Sasuke:
1st: Because he believes that someday Sasuke will become stronger. Itachi needs Sasuke to become his opponent in a contest of power. Itachi sees intermeddiate potentials in Sasuke and then decides that he'll have Sasuke as a sparring partner hehehehe

2nd: He tortured, mocked, and spared Sasuke so that Sasu would have a motivation to become stronger and hence forth survive in the harsh world of shinobi's. Sometimes hatred could provide us with a great will to live. In this case, Itachi really does care for Sasuke. He wants Sasuke to survive.

[Neji_Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by Lollerpants

Can't we just all get along and just call it a plot based move since they wanted Team Seven to each become the "new" Sannin and have the former be their mentors?


Anyways. About the whole leaving the village thing which would involve way too many quotes: Itachi basically said don't make friends and let your only goal be to kill me. That never meant that he had to leave the village at all, Sasuke started to lose motivation more or less and not train as hard AFTER joining Team 7.

I really don't know why so many people are anti-Sasuke these days. I mean sure he's an emo kid. But if Naruto where in Sasuke's position I'm pretty sure he'd turn out like that too, as Sasuke in Naruto's. Sure almost everyone is going to argue that, but I just see how they turned out is because of their respective ways of living prior academy and during academy.

Also yeah, about the people disliking Sasuke just because he went to Orochimaru; yeah and he was going to stay with Kakashi only to get owned again when he faced Itachi? I think that all Itachi really wants is for Sasuke to get stronger than him, as from what he stated in the FB that Itachi was what Sasuke needed to overcome for them to coexist, and what not.

I don't really think Itachi wants Sasuke to become twisted or evil or anything, he just wants to make Sasuke stronger, and from how he sees it hatred is more a motivation force than, let's say, being with your friends. Though also some people may just say that Itachi wants Sasuke to have MS and some crazy thing will happen or whatever, I don't really believe Itachi is an "evil" character.

He hasn't even really shown a killing intent and it seems more or less that he's just bored with the ninja world, in a way.

Naruto and Sasuke's experience is never the less the same...THE BOTH OF THEM LIVED THEIR LIVES ALONE!!!!!! But the determination to become good or evil lies within each personality. Naruto chose his village and Sasuke chose his quest for revenge. Sauke chose the short path to Orochimaru to gain power, actually that's ok to me. But do you really believe that by doing so he won't get owned by Itachi in their next encounter???? Even Oro fears Itachi. How could Oro make Sasuke stronger when he alone isn't capable of let's say defeating Itachi by himself? That's pretty odd isn't it? Itachi was Oro's first choice and Sasuke was actually the alternative

Inspite of all the debates i actually like Sasuke. He's the perfect soulmate for Naruto. He's just a little screwed lately I'm sure they'll get back together...

[Zhen]

i think so

and i think that sasuke will beet the crap out of him

[Vizard.King]

i hav a feeling that sasuke will be like itachi and kill his own people(orochimaru,kabuto etc.) to test his strength

[Souten no Seigyoku]

How can Sasuke become stronger than Itachi if his trainer is weaker than itachi?

Orochimaru's probably skilled enough that with Sasuke's body he can bridge the gap between the two. Possibly becoming even stronger than Itachi. The Sharingan is the perfect tool for Orochimaru's ultimate goal of mastering every known justu (except bloodline limits). That's why he wants Sasuke's Sharingan instead of Neji's which are supposed to be stronger. In Oro's hands, the sharingan is more useful.

[inferno_grl]

no.... that will not happen... i don't think it can

[Maebara Keiichi]

yes i think he can!!
i think Sasuke becomes more stronger and then he can kill hes brother Itachi!!

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku

How can Sasuke become stronger than Itachi if his trainer is weaker than itachi?

Orochimaru's probably skilled enough that with Sasuke's body he can bridge the gap between the two. Possibly becoming even stronger than Itachi. The Sharingan is the perfect tool for Orochimaru's ultimate goal of mastering every known justu (except bloodline limits). That's why he wants Sasuke's Sharingan instead of Neji's which are supposed to be stronger. In Oro's hands, the sharingan is more useful.

No offense but this question is pretty stupid.
Just an example:

How can (super) talents (at young age 16,17 already) suddenly become pro? While their trainers cant compare with them (otherwise they'd be pro!)

Just own training, determination and selfdisicipline. The drive to push yourself beyond your limits everytime. A person like Orochimaru can make Sasuke extremely powerfull.

He is very experienced...Itachi cant compare himself to the Sannin in that field.
Orochimaru is also a jutsu freak so he knows tons of jutsu's which Sasuke can use against his own brother.

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku

How can Sasuke become stronger than Itachi if his trainer is weaker than itachi?

Because Sasuke has the only thing in the world capable of countering Itachi.

Sharingan.

Something Oro lacks, Sasuke not. No matter how great his other ninja skills (which are in fact much greater than Itachi's, unlike Sasuke's), he can't overcome MS, as confirmed by Itachi himself.


Oh and, according to your weird ass theory, a student will never be able to surpass its master. That means every generation, ninja villages grow weaker and weaker because the masters will always stay stronger than the students.

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

Because Sasuke has the only thing in the world capable of countering Itachi.

Sharingan.

Something Oro lacks, Sasuke not. No matter how great his other ninja skills (which are in fact much greater than Itachi's, unlike Sasuke's), he can't overcome MS, as confirmed by Itachi himself.


Oh and, according to your weird ass theory, a student will never be able to surpass its master. That means every generation, ninja villages grow weaker and weaker because the masters will always stay stronger than the students.

Well, to clerify, Oro obtaining the sharingan can negate Itatchi's trump card, MS. With that gone, Oro probably has the advantage. Im sure MS can be overpowered it would just be extremely difficult.