[MANGA] Bleach Weekly Chapter 500+ Discussion

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Kuuuubo strikes again~

Called it.

This whole arc has been about making the shinigami look pathetic starting with Byakuya and Renji using bankai despite warnings. Ichigo spent the last arc training to regain his shinigami powers and now his sword has been destroyed to the weird point it can't be repaired

[saravis]

Called it, I had a feeling it was Unahona bringing him back and not some immortality.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Yeah Hinamori couldn't even be killed by Aizen who wanted her dead. Must be an upcoming twist or Kubo just being a sadist to that girl... maybe the latter

Funny that you mention that because whats happening now seems to be the same as what happened to Hinamori. Unahona healed her from a "fatal" wound. After recently watching the SS arc and seeing Unahona draw her sword to heal Hitsu and Hina, I've become convinced that her Zanpaktou is a healing type.

[solidguy]

kenpachi is the next soul king this is the foreshadowing

[Alchemist007]

Kenpachi confirmed for Kyuubi?

[kk2extreme]

Kenpachi = Gohan?

[Eragon]

^ He is Yamamoto's son!! XD

[solidguy]

And Unohana is his mother =0

[Fenrir_valindri]

Well, the original answer was he was a child born and raised in the lowest, most violent district in Soul Society. His entire childhood was probably spent killing people to survive, and he just proved to be the fittest of the whole lot.

Sometimes monsters are just born.

[askara]

i cant help but feel those chapter about kenpachi is just pure bullshit. also ichigo is just a super fruit punch blend

[dragonmeister]

So while Unohana never officially lost as Kenpachi, she felt the loss to Zaraki and felt the need to resign and become a healer, maintaining the tradition of the Kenpachi (although in a roundabout way, as it took a while for the rightful Kenpachi to take his place) - neat, although this does remove the possibility of him being pushed to such a point by Unohana that his later "my zanpakuto does actually have a name, and it's ..." isn't pulled from nowhere/a long conversation in the middle of a battle

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by sayde

One thing I found interesting in this chapter was Unohana's comment:
"I am strong...stronger than anyone...but you".
What if that was a literal statement? Could that have meant Kenpachi>Unohana>Yamamoto>Aizen?
I mean as things stand, its not like there's any conclusive way to disprove it.

and yama-jii said he was the strongest in a 1000 years. also, aizen needs to be qualified with stages. for instance, yama jii was stronger when they fought, but he couldnt kill aizen and aizen would have kept evolving to be stronger eventually. one of the butterflaizen variations was probably stronger based on the fact that yamajii's reiatsu could be felt and aizen's couldnt

Originally Posted by saravis

Called it, I had a feeling it was Unahona bringing him back and not some immortality.

oddly enough, him being immortal makes more sense to me than him being such a powerful child and subconsciously making himself weak...

Funny that you mention that because whats happening now seems to be the same as what happened to Hinamori. Unahona healed her from a "fatal" wound. After recently watching the SS arc and seeing Unahona draw her sword to heal Hitsu and Hina, I've become convinced that her Zanpaktou is a healing type.

it definitely is. we saw her put injured people in the mouth of her released zanpakutou in order to heal them

Originally Posted by askara

i cant help but feel those chapter about kenpachi is just pure bullshit. also ichigo is just a super fruit punch blend

no idea what you mean, but it's hilarious

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

and yama-jii said he was the strongest in a 1000 years. also, aizen needs to be qualified with stages. for instance, yama jii was stronger when they fought, but he couldnt kill aizen and aizen would have kept evolving to be stronger eventually. one of the butterflaizen variations was probably stronger based on the fact that yamajii's reiatsu could be felt and aizen's couldnt

I think Unohana also took into account the fact that Yamamoto is dead when she made that statement. With Yama dead, until Kenpachi returns to his former self, she is the strongest. Though I'm not sure she's including the members of Squad Zero either. Just the five of them are supposed to have a power greater than the entire Gotei 13.

Obviously, Aizen's zanpakuto abilities made him far too deadly for anyone in the Gotei 13 to handle. Unohana told Ichigo not even she could stand up to his ability, but she's likely stronger than him (not counting his evolved forms) in terms of raw power.

oddly enough, him being immortal makes more sense to me than him being such a powerful child and subconsciously making himself weak...

Well, we know there's some little monsters out there in the Rukongai. Histugaya seems to be around the same age Kenpachi was and he's a ridiculously powerful shinigami, even though by captain standards he can still be considered wet behind the ears. Even still, I guess Kid Kenpachi's power is hard to believe.

What really gets me is how after bringing one of the most powerful shinigami in history to her knees, Zaraki was able to go on living in relative obscurity for decades. He should've become a legend right there.

[Alchemist007]

Only one person saw that battle, and we sure didn't see him ever again.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

and yama-jii said he was the strongest in a 1000 years. also, aizen needs to be qualified with stages. for instance, yama jii was stronger when they fought, but he couldnt kill aizen and aizen would have kept evolving to be stronger eventually. one of the butterflaizen variations was probably stronger based on the fact that yamajii's reiatsu could be felt and aizen's couldnt

I don't even bother to include Aizen and Ichigo's transcendent forms into a statement like that. Because by that point, their powers became far greater than anything we've witnessed in this series. That's to say, they became something much more than mere shinigami. Not even the almighty Kenpachi comes close simply for the sole fact that his reiatsu is still capable of being felt by the Gotei 13 (as far as we know). Ultimately as far as I'm concerned, no single characters has been shown or implied to possess the same kind of multidimensional shattering reiatsu that Aizen and Ichigo were said to have. They were for all intents and purposes, in a league of their own.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think Unohana also took into account the fact that Yamamoto is dead when she made that statement. With Yama dead, until Kenpachi returns to his former self, she is the strongest. Though I'm not sure she's including the members of Squad Zero either. Just the five of them are supposed to have a power greater than the entire Gotei 13.

I don't know. Its hard to be sure at this point since the old man is dead and we'll likely never see the two matched up. At this point, all we can hope for is a vague statement that implies how her power might've compared to his. But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if she really was stronger than the captain commander. Because one thing these last turn of events have heavily implied is that the title of "Kenpachi" is not just for show as many of us might have thought. Also, ever since Shunsui became the new CC it became obvious that being the strongest shinigami is NOT a requirement. So its not like Yama-jii's position alone turned out to mean anything in that regard. There's also Yama-jii's statement that itachi-san314 brought up. By his own admission, he said the last shinigami born stronger than him was about a thousand years ago. So this could have very well been Zaraki that he was referring to. His statement also does not eliminate the possibility of yet another shinigami being stronger than him having existed for over a thousand years (Unohana).

Long story short, the room for such a possibility is there IMO. About the only solid point I see that pokes a major hole in my theory is the statement you brought up about the supposed strength of all 5 Royal Guard members. Granted, there's still ways to explain it, but anything I can come up with at the moment wouldn't sound completely plausible or easy to digest.

[Langus]

I'd forgotten all about Ichigo. This battle is WAY more interesting right now. Which probably means yes, next chapter we'll be back to Ichigo fighting zanpakto.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Only one person saw that battle, and we sure didn't see him ever again.

Yeah, but we didn't see him die...oh well. And Kenpachi just walks away? Never seeking out the one person who gave them the battle he craved until so much time had passed? It's not like he was defeated and needed to get stronger. Though maybe in his eyes, he did lose the battle.

Originally Posted by sayde

But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if she really was stronger than the captain commander. Because one thing these last turn of events have heavily implied is that the title of "Kenpachi" is not just for show as many of us might have thought. Also, ever since Shunsui became the new CC it became obvious that being the strongest shinigami is NOT a requirement. So its not like Yama-jii's position alone turned out to mean anything in that regard. There's also Yama-jii's statement that itachi-san314 brought up. By his own admission, he said the last shinigami born stronger than him was about a thousand years ago. So this could have very well been Zaraki that he was referring to. His statement also does not eliminate the possibility of yet another shinigami being stronger than him having existed for over a thousand years (Unohana).

About Yamamoto's quote-- I still think the full conversation implies he was saying he was strongest. He asks Aizen how it's possible that he's remained the commander for 1000 years, the answer being that in that time, there hasn't been a single shinigami born that was stronger than him. Meaning that if there existed a stronger shinigami during that time, they would be worthy of his seat. He's justifying his position with being the strongest. His words don't mean as much if there's someone stronger, just having happened to been born before he became commander.

Of course, Shunsui being appointed does prove you don't necessarily have to be the strongest, but remember Yamamoto himself wasn't appointed. He founded the Gotei 13 and seems to have based the seat of commander on his own strength.

As for the title Kenpachi, obviously the Kenpachis that came between Unohana and Zaraki weren't as strong as those two. So it has become something of a formal title and not a literal statement of being the absolute strongest shinigami. And it seems like the name applies to a specific type of warrior--someone who has insatiable love of intense battle and violence plus a fighting style based purely on overwhelming physical power/swordsmanship. It's not just about overall fighting strength. I think even if Ichigo became powerful as the Spirit King himself, he wouldn't be considered a Kenpachi.

About the only solid point I see that pokes a major hole in my theory is the statement you brought up about the supposed strength of all 5 Royal Guard members. Granted, there's still ways to explain it, but anything I can come up with at the moment wouldn't sound completely plausible or easy to digest.

It is kinda puzzling. The only explanation I can really see is if there is that large of a gap between Unohana's strength and that of the other captains (the VC's and common foot soldiers are already negligible). If the squad 0 member's are each around her strength, then combined they outpower the entire Gotei 13, but individually they might be equal to or, a little weaker than Unohana.

Power levels huh?

[itachi-san314]

yea, kenpachi now means that that person beat the last kenpachi. it doesnt imply they are the strongest. someone who was weaker than yama-jii could have still beat kenpachi #3 and became #4 for instance.

also, i agree that shunsui isnt the strongest, but we still have no idea what his bankai is. whatever it is, it's so powerful it isn't safe to use around allies. i'm just saying that it's possible that his bankai makes him the strongest captain

[Mad Pierrot]

Shinsui once implied that he was stronger than Hitsugaya and Soifong when fighting Starrk. Even Ukitake said his bankai was dangerous in the fake Karakura Town. However, I don't think he is strongest than Yama. It may be a build up for the upcoming battle.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

About Yamamoto's quote-- I still think the full conversation implies he was saying he was strongest. He asks Aizen how it's possible that he's remained the commander for 1000 years, the answer being that in that time, there hasn't been a single shinigami born that was stronger than him. Meaning that if there existed a stronger shinigami during that time, they would be worthy of his seat. He's justifying his position with being the strongest. His words don't mean as much if there's someone stronger, just having happened to been born before he became commander.

You're interpretation could very well be correct. But if it is, then allow me to suggest another possibility. What if Yamamoto had made that statement having only factored Unohana and Zaraki's power as it was during that 1000 year time span? I mean as things stood, Unohana's strength may have been regarded as a non-factor to Yamamoto due to her vow not to participate in battle during his 1000 year reign as CC (A vow she clearly kept even during the most dire crisis). And he may not have factored in Zaraki's power due to the fact that the bulk of his strength was clearly hidden away during the course of those thousand years. So even though Yamamoto likely knew about Zaraki's maximum potential, he knew he was still stronger than Zaraki in his current state.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

As for the title Kenpachi, obviously the Kenpachis that came between Unohana and Zaraki weren't as strong as those two. So it has become something of a formal title and not a literal statement of being the absolute strongest shinigami. And it seems like the name applies to a specific type of warrior--someone who has insatiable love of intense battle and violence plus a fighting style based purely on overwhelming physical power/swordsmanship. It's not just about overall fighting strength.

Fair enough. Even though we know next to nothing about most of the former Kenpachi's (and even though the novel speaks of a former Kenpachi that was implied to have been stronger than Yamamoto), I won't try and debate the possibility of how strong they might've been due solely to the above canon claim (from Yamamoto) we're discussing.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Shinsui once implied that he was stronger than Hitsugaya and Soifong when fighting Starrk. Even Ukitake said his bankai was dangerous in the fake Karakura Town. However, I don't think he is strongest than Yama. It may be a build up for the upcoming battle.

yea exactly. he wasnt stronger than yama no matter what. i'm just saying that he might be strongest among the remaining captains depending on what his bankai is