(L) Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean

[orpheus2]

It's been a long time. Good episode though ending makes me believe that Ao's world is a fake.

Originally Posted by rpgkiller999

I don't mean their lives don't matter, but like the ending of RahXephon, where the world restructure to include all people that are gone/dead in the old world. If Ao have to remove all the cores; when he need to erase the one on his island where he was born, he will erase the existence of himself as well. But I think at the end Ao will return to E7 timeline and meet his parents in the 'real world'

Or he could decide to stay instead because of the people he knew.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by rpgkiller999

But if the world is really a fake, Ao have to destroy the world to save the world - life will return to the E7 timeline.

I'm going with the original universe and the new universe that the Scub (the half that left with Nirvash). The Scub tried to create the new universe in the image of the old one as an experiment. Setting up the Secrets as anti-bodies. Dumb anti-bodies with lack of instructions. They don't remember who created them.

No it will be pretty much the Matrix. The Scub, Secrets and Humans on both universes will have to compromise.

[Dark Wing]

So we are now dealing with some back to the future level time manipulation here and since all the secrets got "erased" where did they go?

Also I wonder what else that cannon can do?

[morbosfist]

The Secrets died. Everyone remembers them, and that Ao destroyed them. It was the plant coral facility that was erased.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The Secrets died. Everyone remembers them, and that Ao destroyed them. It was the plant coral facility that was erased.

Pet theory: each shot fired from that gun uses up one of the crystals originally taken from the scub. When said crystal is used it's destroyed effectively removing the associated scub itself from existence and triggering the butterfly effect we've witnessed at the end of the last episode. Thoughts?

[MeisterBabylon]

I'm not sure if Kawamori is doing this anime, but I think he is. For him, the greenheads always suffer (Ranka Lee, Zessica) for the sake of plot, or sometimes maybe just suffer for the drama it brings.

Right now, the Eurekas and AO are being thrown in a loop, and the Goldilocks (green team) just got obliterated.

Is this some kind of racism?


EDIT:

I just realized that with that "cannon" firing, it resulted in that giant column of Light. The same light that Eureka used to jump to safety.

Perhaps that wasn't a cannon. Maybe its in fact a transdimensional engine used by the Scub to jump from world to world (the clue as it visually resembles a rocket, and Mark I was riding in the saddle when it first manifest), and the Secret just got blown up in its back blast (if it has enough energy to jump across dimensions, that's a SHIT TON of energy right there).

And so Ao could've just jumped into another timeline that didn't have Goldilocks in it.

[duckroll]

Kawamori has nothing to do with E7AO aside from providing the design for Nirvash.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Tyr Valein

No one else is highly disturbed by the concept of a Seven Swell gun?

That could be why the entire world appears to be after Ao in the next episode.

Originally Posted by Trajan

Another confusing episode, and a lot unknown. However, I don't think Chloe, Maeve and Maggie were necessarily written out of existence, but rather that Ao changed the timeline by erasing the Vesteralen scub coral from existence. Essentially, there never was a scub coral that appeared in Vesteralen.

To break it down:

Ao fires the quartz weapon very close to the Vesteralen coral plant. Afterwards, Pied Piper returns to "Vester" and Ao asks about the coral plant. Elena tells him that there has never been a coral plant there. In episode 15, Chloe tells Ao that her family moved to Vesteralen just after she was born so that her parents could work at the coral plant there.

However, if there is no coral plant at Vesteralen, then Chloe's family never moves there, and she and Maeve do not grow up in an environment rich in trapar particles. Therefore, they never become Generation Bleu pilots.

Remember, when Gazelle speaks to Ao in his bedroom, Gazelle merely tells Ao that there are no Gen Bleu employees named Chloe, Maeve, or Maggie, not that he's searched all databases and the three do not exist.

Note: I don't remember Maggie's backstory, if she had one, and it still doesn't explain why there wouldn't still be a Goldilocks team, but piloted by different children.

Spoiler for preview:

And if you notice in the preview, Georg is connecting Ao to Chloe and Maeve on a live call, and both are dressed in civilian clothes, which supports my theory.

This really makes a lot of sense.

[Reckoner]

Latest episode felt really disjointed and didn't quite pick up where it left off like I would have hoped.

Ultimately what's becoming increasingly clear to me about Eureka 7 Ao is that while there are a lot of interesting ideas at work, the execution and the characters fall a little bit too flat to make it come to fruition. Eureka 7 wasn't particularly a tightly written story, but the emotional investment in its characters made it so much easier to stay engaged.

[bigdeath]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Pet theory: each shot fired from that gun uses up one of the crystals originally taken from the scub. When said crystal is used it's destroyed effectively removing the associated scub itself from existence and triggering the butterfly effect we've witnessed at the end of the last episode. Thoughts?

That sounds like a sound theory however that means if AO has to keep using that gun to fight more secrets or other enemies then he might end up erasing his own team members.

Scary stuff.

As for the episode being disjointed eh, I don't see it. But then I've been enjoying every episode of this show so who knows, I might be crazy.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

That sounds like a sound theory however that means if AO has to keep using that gun to fight more secrets or other enemies then he might end up erasing his own team members.

Scary stuff.

As for the episode being disjointed eh, I don't see it. But then I've been enjoying every episode of this show so who knows, I might be crazy.

Crazy like a fox...

[bigdeath]

Go to know other people are enjoying this show as much as me.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

Go to know other people are enjoying this show as much as me.

There are plenty of us, don't worry. We're just not as loud.

[Master Chibi]

While I'm fine with the intrigue of the show this far I think it's focusing too much on it. Rewatching Eureka Seven along with this I find that it did a far better job on creating and developing its characters before delving into the environment / setting / and really digging into the plot.

The series has also forgotten how wonderful it was to be wrapped around in the idea of surfing in the sky. I originally lauded E7 for such a thing but I came to love it. AO really hasn't embraced that part of the E7 lore, and I wish they would.

As it is now they're taking bits and pieces of E7 and doing fine with them but I don't really 'feel' for anyone and its more curiosity than it is genuine intrigue and excitement to see what's next.

[MeisterBabylon]

At least we all agree no one knows where the hell this anime is going from now on. I give it top marks for achieving that.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Pet theory: each shot fired from that gun uses up one of the crystals originally taken from the scub. When said crystal is used it's destroyed effectively removing the associated scub itself from existence and triggering the butterfly effect we've witnessed at the end of the last episode. Thoughts?

Dunno, the episode's ending focused on Ao's wristband quartz being used up, rather than some random piece of the amalgam of quartz in the cannon. Moreover, the Scub woke up without their quartz cores so I don't think they are that attached to them and may possibly generate new ones on their own or something.

In the end, the result is favorable to the Secrets (death for them doesn't seem to be an issue and may well have been a catalyst rather than end goal of the firing, and you don't see them popping out of every orifice to chase after Ao's new toy), arguably favorable for the world (one less Scub means one less reason for Secrets to show up), favorable for the Goldilocks kids as they get to live normal lives with their parents (and Bruno's probably alive now), but unfavorable for the Scub (or so I would think).

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

While I'm fine with the intrigue of the show this far I think it's focusing too much on it. Rewatching Eureka Seven along with this I find that it did a far better job on creating and developing its characters before delving into the environment / setting / and really digging into the plot.

E7 had double the episode count to work with. Its not exactly fair to compare their world building breath and character depths when you consider the disproportionate time resource of one over the other.

[Daniel Lind]

At least we all agree no one knows where the hell this anime is going from now on. I give it top marks for achieving that.

That's a good thing? When you can't even make a GUESS about the story because you know they're just going to turn it upside down next week it stops being interesting to follow. Look at Madoka for example. Now that's some foreshadowing. That's some twist that changes how we view the show. Aikawa has no such skills.

E7 had double the episode count to work with. Its not exactly fair to compare their world building breath and character depths when you consider the disproportionate time resource of one over the other.

"Don't bite off more than you can chew" is the morale here then. If your plot is so complex (and it's not, it's just the presentation that makes it look like it) you can barely fit the plot alone in 24 episodes maybe you should rethink it.
Again, look at Madoka. It was also a mystery-rooted show. It created enough concepts and characters to work with in the span of 12 episodes. And AO is just a bloody mess.

I remember watching Gemini of the Meteor and every god damn episode was going "What a twist, eh?" to the viewer.
Don't need to tell you guys how that turned out.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Vena

E7 had double the episode count to work with. Its not exactly fair to compare their world building breath and character depths when you consider the disproportionate time resource of one over the other.

It's not about time though. Lack of character depth comes mostly from a lack of character interaction I think.

What do you remember about E7 the most? The relationship between Renton and Eureka. But not only that, there's also the relationship between Renton and Holland and the rest of the Gekkostate gang. There's also Holland and Talho, and Anemone and Dominic too. Whenever you think about E7, you think about people interaction with one another, forming significant bonds of any kind. This is why the characters in E7 are so compelling.

AO on the other hand deals with the characters mostly as individual entities. That's why they feel kinda flat even though there is some development here and there.

[Guardian Enzo]

What I think about most is the wasted opportunities that resulted from sloppy writing, a lack of editing and how much I grew to hate Holland by the time the series was over... I loved that show in spite of its warts, but I don't gloss over them.

I've long ago given up on trying to convince people that AO is actually the better series, but it's my firm belief that most of the criticism stems from people measuring it against E7 - which is unsurprising, since it's attempting (successfully, in my view) to be a very different kind of show. Everyone will come to their own conclusions, and there's no point in worrying about it. We're too deep into the series for entrenched opinions to be be changed, anyway.

[Daniel Lind]

I've long ago given up on trying to convince people that AO is actually the better series

Maybe because it's just your opinion?
Some people like multilayered stories rich with more believeable characters than loli smarter-than-their-age mecha pilots.
Truth and Naru with their inconsistent actions and terrible design already kick AO's sorry ass off any "good writing" position it might've achieved.
Sloppy writing? Lack of editing? You bet AO has all of them.

It would be like trying to convince people the prequel trilogy of Star Wars is better because it has like... action! And politics! Totally better!
Is there something I don't see? Is the plot really complex or are they just jerking off by spreading a relatively simple story over 10 hours in a way that makes it look like it's a mystery but in reality it's just witholding elements of the narrative from the viewer to extend the runtime? Are these characters really more humane than these in E7? I'm sorry, but I just don't see it!
And why is Eureka so irrelevant to anything in her own show? I guess Aikawa knows what he's doing though since it's a better series!