Macross Frontier Movie Discussion

[ippus]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

It's my fault, and I'll take full responsibility.

Actually more like mine loool
(though how you guys manage to write a page+ worth of responses on that alone leaves me very impressed. I don't think i was away for that long hahahah)

iunno I just feel like..Ranka is extremely commercial >_>; There's just no way in hell she'd have very little to do with the first movie >___>

I'd be happy if she was, but the chances are all the worthwhile sheryl shots were probably already stuck in the trailer (like...DOA the movie LMFAO only their trailer shots weren't very good. It summarized the movie pretty well though.)


For now all I wish for is a sheriru dansu T^T

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by ippus

Actually more like mine loool
(though how you guys manage to write a page+ worth of responses on that alone leaves me very impressed. I don't think i was away for that long hahahah)

We can type fast, can't we? And Mei19 can even type fast with different "handwriting" than the rest of us!

Originally Posted by ippus

iunno I just feel like..Ranka is extremely commercial >_>;

God, yes. I can't tell you how many times I turn on the TV or watch a movie and see small, green-haired girls. They're absolutely everywhere.

You know who gets no love? Tall hot blonde chicks with big boobs. You never see them being commercialized or exploited at all.

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

You know who gets no love? Tall hot blonde chicks with big boobs. You never see them being commercialized or exploited at all.

You're making me feel like sheep. Don't care, I love Sheryl.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

God, yes. I can't tell you how many times I turn on the TV or watch a movie and see small, green-haired girls. They're absolutely everywhere.

You know who gets no love? Tall hot blonde chicks with big boobs. You never see them being commercialized or exploited at all.

You my friend are talking about western countries. In Japan, moe loli-ish girls are all the rage.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

You my friend are talking about western countries. In Japan, moe loli-ish girls are all the rage.

Then why did I keep seeing those damn Cameron Diaz Soft Bank commercials every damn time I turned on the TV there...? Not to mention the Britney Spears advertising van driving around Ginza...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

You my friend are talking about western countries. In Japan, moe loli-ish girls are all the rage.

Sometimes, my dear, sometimes.

I remember a long time ago, a friend asked me, "so why do most anime girls have the face of young-girls and the body of models?"

- Tak

[abynormal]

Originally Posted by Tak

Sometimes, my dear, sometimes.

I remember a long time ago, a friend asked me, "so why do most anime girls have the face of young-girls and the body of models?"

- Tak

And how did you respond?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Okay...just when I thought I got a handle on what everyone meant by trolling, this throws me for a loop. Foreshadow described "trolling" as something not enjoyed; Mei19 said "Trollish is a bitter sore loser way to describe an outcome you didn't like as an audience."

Episode 17 played with expectations, and faked the viewer out, especially if the viewer was a long-time Macross fan. But I haven't read a single negative review of it (except on Robotech.com, where some of the members seem to feel sort of obligated to dislike any Macross series).

So does trolling to you simply mean subverting expectations...?

I'm trying not to harp on this. But I'm confused. And I'd like not to be confused.

Before I got to read Crusaders episode summaries, a "troll" was for me the definition offered on TV Tropes.... a flamethrower on a forum, who tries to start flame wars. It is meant as a completely negative term.

The nomination of Kawamori as a troll comes off as affectionate, instead. Kawa-san has a tendency to a.) surprise us with, let's say strange plot twists ( which mostly make sense in the end ) or b.) play with the audiences expectations.

Macross Frontiers ending certainly counts as a "bad" troll, because not resolving the romance makes little sense, given the build-up we had for most of the series.
Unless someone finally arrives with an interview where Kawamori explains satisfactorily why they didn't resolve it, I will continue to believe that it was the hope for better merchandising which spurred on that decision, not any sense that it would elevate the story.

Episode 17 would count as a "benign troll". There certainly were lots of people who already had declared Ozma dead before the episode aired ( not yours truly, however. ), so it was a simple play on audience expectations.


BTW, Escaflowne was the first anime I saw with the "anime bittersweet non-definite ending" trope. Yeah, you can believe me that I felt trolled by it.
Oh well, nobody says Van can't visit Hitomi on Earth, I just wish they had spelled it out.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

I hated it, too, but for a different reason...Van and Alan's deepest desire was to fight each other? Where the hell did THAT come from?

It struck me that the writers were trying to ACT like deep thinkers without actually BEING deep thinkers.

Don't forget, Escaflowne was originally planned for 50 episodes. Quite a bit had to be cut when they only have 26 episodes to work with.

[BetoJR]

Yeah, even though it was quite rushed at the final stages, I quite loved how the series ended.

[cutesherry]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Macross Frontier's ending to me is not a troll...I can say it's surprising, but to me it's not a troll...because the show was too rush...and there was no time for audience to realize/understand Alto's deep thought...we all know how Ranka and Sheryl think of Alto but Alto rarely reveals his heart to the audience

SO true!
More then Sheryl or Ranka, I'd rather had had a movie which would have allowed us to learn more about Alto's personal thoughts, to understand his character and actions better and feel more deeply involved and interested with the development of his personality through the time.
His face could get to be very expressive sometimes, but still, we are left wondering and confused as for his true feelings until the very end. We also only got glimpse of his past and some hints, but never got truly in touch with what happened to him and the complexity of his bonds with his family.
If I have any wish, it would be for movie 2 to be more about him.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

God, yes. I can't tell you how many times I turn on the TV or watch a movie and see small, green-haired girls. They're absolutely everywhere.

You know who gets no love? Tall hot blonde chicks with big boobs. You never see them being commercialized or exploited at all.

Anime honey Anime.
I'm willing to bet that Ranka has far more MF poster art/or at the very least pictures with spotline position than SHeryl will ever have. There's also the fact she's become an internet meme every since the whole KIRA~ thing.

I know I get disputed against for this view but, for anyone looking at MF for the first time Ranka has the "main character" design and characteristics >_>

Whilst I would very much LOVE a sheryl-centric movie I really really feel it's unlikely :< But yes, please feel free to surprise me kawamori 8D

@cutesherry/justavisitor: Actually now that i've rewatched MF, I'm starting to realize that reservation is PART of alto's personality. It's not that we haven't been given his point of view, this just IS his point of view.

He's a character that doesn't voice reasonings for his actions, even if he thinks pretty deeply about the things he wants. He only initiates when he's come to a conclusion that he wouldn't regret, but remains quiet about his problems otherwise. It ends up making it seem like he's a bit slow or incredibly indecisive but now I think it's oddly realistic and interesting? I mean sure he doesn't blurt everything in his head like Ranka does, or respond haughtily to the world under a "i-amstrong" persona like Sheryl does, but the world require all sorts XD

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by ippus

Anime honey Anime.
I'm willing to bet that Ranka has far more MF poster art/or at the very least pictures with spotline position than SHeryl will ever have. There's also the fact she's become an internet meme every since the whole KIRA~ thing.

I know I get disputed against for this view but, for anyone looking at MF for the first time Ranka has the "main character" design and characteristics >_>

Whilst I would very much LOVE a sheryl-centric movie I really really feel it's unlikely :< But yes, please feel free to surprise me kawamori 8D

So your point is that Ranka is more marketable, which is why they're NOT showing her in the advertising for the movie. But even though they're not showing her much in the promotional materials, she'll be all over the movie, to the detriment of Sheryl. So showing Sheryl (who is less marketable and popular) in the advertising is way to draw people in to see a movie that is all REALLY about Ranka (who is more marketable and popular).

Do I have that right...?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ippus

Anime honey Anime.
I'm willing to bet that Ranka has far more MF poster art/or at the very least pictures with spotline position than SHeryl will ever have. There's also the fact she's become an internet meme every since the whole KIRA~ thing.

Huh? I don't know what brought you to this conclusion, but I can almost guarantee you that the answer to your statement is a resounding NO.

- Tak

[wisteria233]

I kind of understand what ippus is getting at. Most of the time in anime we do have a blond-haired, big boobed character, only difference is that that character is usually heavily stereotyped and doesn't really have a defining personality *in anime anyway*, the only difference is that character usually doesn't end up being the most popular (they certainly don't interest the Fujioshi). Meanwhile the moe moe character from that same series will get all of fans on their side. Precedent shows that Ranka's character design should have guaranteed her the most popular character spot (at least for Frontier), and yet she is not instead all she got was a meme. Kinda interesting considering Ranka has the most screen time.

Though I personally think that personality has some play into this, though I'm going refrain from discussing it.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

I kind of understand what ippus is getting at. Most of the time in anime we do have a blond-haired, big boobed character, only difference is that that character is usually heavily stereotyped and doesn't really have a defining personality *in anime anyway*, the only difference is that character usually doesn't end up being the most popular (they certainly don't interest the Fujioshi). Meanwhile the moe moe character from that same series will get all of fans on their side. Precedent shows that Ranka's character design should have guaranteed her the most popular character spot (at least for Frontier), and yet she is not instead all she got was a meme. Kinda interesting considering Ranka has the most screen time.

Though I personally think that personality has some play into this, though I'm going refrain from discussing it.

I once again refer to this excellent post by Crusader, which points to Ranka as a possible deconstruction of Moe characters. It's really a quite interesting read.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I once again refer to this excellent post by Crusader, which points to Ranka as a possible deconstruction of Moe characters. It's really a quite interesting read.

I know I even said before that she may have been a deconstruction of the moe trope a while ago, and then got attacked from people believed that I was bashing her character. That's why I said

Though I personally think that personality has some play into this, though I'm going refrain from discussing it.

I'm just pointing out that from an anime stand point Ranka design is like the average moe moe character that usually makes off with the most fans in the series.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by ippus

@cutesherry/justavisitor: Actually now that i've rewatched MF, I'm starting to realize that reservation is PART of alto's personality. It's not that we haven't been given his point of view, this just IS his point of view.

He's a character that doesn't voice reasonings for his actions, even if he thinks pretty deeply about the things he wants. He only initiates when he's come to a conclusion that he wouldn't regret, but remains quiet about his problems otherwise. It ends up making it seem like he's a bit slow or incredibly indecisive but now I think it's oddly realistic and interesting? I mean sure he doesn't blurt everything in his head like Ranka does, or respond haughtily to the world under a "i-amstrong" persona like Sheryl does, but the world require all sorts XD

yes, he is a reserved person, but give me some cliche moment, like hmm, a character doesn't have to open his mouth, but somehow his voice from his mind comes out and we as an audience know what he is thinking..typical method used by various animes XD

We don't even have that, the closest one that we have is ep 23..and ep 25..but the one in ep 25 is too late..so for the movie, gives us some personal thought from Alto would be nice...

Even a voice from his mind saying "I don't know what to think anymore" would be better than nothing

[AlphaDragoon]

I don't get the argument here.

Sheryl is an idealized typical anime girl, with long flowing pretty hair and a nice rack.

Ranka is also a typical archetype, the loli moeblob who appears and dresses far younger than her actual age implies.

BOTH sterotypes happen in anime. A LOT.

[Foreshadow]

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

I don't get the argument here.

Sheryl is an idealized typical anime girl, with long flowing pretty hair and a nice rack.

Ranka is also a typical archetype, the loli moeblob who appears and dresses far younger than her actual age implies.

BOTH sterotypes happen in anime. A LOT.

The discussion is on going about the fact that the Archetype of Ranka usually wins out and gets the majority of the fans, which is not the case in Macross Frontier.

Although you could argue in terms of aesthetics anything is an archetype. It's more on the side of personality and which sticks closer to their respective archetype.