Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[andyjay729]

So Chamber asserts that humans who turn their back on their mechanical creations (like himself) are turning their back on their humanity. Man is just an uncivilized animal without his tools.

Who made who? (That's was the theme song of Maximum Overdrive, BTW. Perhaps this wasn't the best analogy here, but I like this song. )

[DarkRaven]

the striker is superior to chamber so in a fight it wouldnt be that easy for Ledo.. i cant wait for the next episode

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

You worship creatures by killing them and decorating your homes with their carcasses? That's a new.

Anyway as I said it's not like it's impossible that somehow those who happened to find striker also happen coincidentally to want to kill Hideauze as much as Kugel wants, but that's of several magnitudes more unlikely than the case where they are killing whalesquids because of Kugel.


In addition you'd need to explain how do they kill whalesquids, because as far as it was told to us it is very hard to deal with them with the technologies available to earthlings.

What cults do, again, usually doesn't make sense when you try to apply logic, so who knows...

Anyway, I'm just going to keep an open mind when it comes to the next episode. If Kugel turns out evil, okay. If he turns out the same way he started, okay.

I honestly think he's going to be presented as Red's ticket home (remember that Chamber said that he could get them home, but he couldn't do it by himself and that he needed help.) But whether Red accepts this or not could be the crux of the debate.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Did Chamber just justify his own existence to serve humanity?

Hideauze and their cousins the Squidwhales are no longer human and as we expected just animals. Evolvers abandoned their humanity and regressed. They become the symbionts they were wearing.

Chamber is saying it makes no damn difference as Hideauze are a threat to humanity. Perhaps even more as they can no longer be reasoned with.

Ledo's shock can be compared to the Minbari of B5. Minbari do not kill Minbari. Sure he killed pirates but they were threatening civilians and potential allies.

Speaking of allies Pinion got a big head and starts to accept pirates to his crew. That is going to bite him in the ass. Even Ledo has standards.

Wonder what Kugel is doing these past months. Who are people he is with. They look a bit crazy.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Kiavik

This is completely wrong. Hideauze aren't enemies really, they're just defending themselves. Did you guys pay attention to the flashback in episode 9? It's clear as crystal that the war was started by the Continental Union (later Galactic Alliance) because of their own ethical reasons. The so-called Hideauze just want to live in peace in space. Of course if they're attacked they WILL return fire.
But attacking their fellow humans was never their initiative.

The past is the past. The current situation is as Chamber said - destroy or be destroyed.

PS: well, you can always quote Shakespeare here, right?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

[...] though Chamber forgot that Ledo technically has he option to join the Hideauze (of course he'll never do that but the option exists).[...]

How do you know that exactly? We don't know enough about the Space-Hideauze, to come to such a conclusion. Maybe they have already long ago mutated to a swarm-like intelligence and have nothing resembling a human aside from their possibly still existing expansionistic mentality.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

How do you know that exactly? We don't know enough about the Space-Hideauze, to come to such a conclusion. Maybe they have already long ago mutated to a swarm-like intelligence and have nothing resembling a human aside from their possibly still existing expansionistic mentality.

Perhaps, but if the technology to become Hideauze still exists then Ledo can become one regardless of what the already existing ones in space think.

In the first place it was humans that created them.

[ReddyRedWolf]

What if the fleet Kugel got himself are lost technology worshipers? The other extreme side so to speak.

Much like some Comstar elements were and the Word of Blake in Battletech.

[Kumbayah]

Chamber was wrong in some points. The Gallatic Alliance and Space Hideauze Civlization were antagonistic with each other. Humans and Hideauze (as proven by the 99% gene-matching with just a different exoskeleton whalesquids) could coexist and anyone who would say otherwise didn't watch the previous episodes. Higher or lower life form, either way doesn't give you the right to kill every one of them.

[mentat]

Some speculation and predictions for the last few episodes...

Spoiler:

• When Kugel arrived on earth, he spread GA propaganda and was able to turn the fleet that pulled him out of the ocean into believers of humanity uniting under one banner for the purpose of defeating the Hideaze (and by extension the whalesquids). Kugel is a senior officer (a colonel) after all so he probably has the skill and motivation to do so
  
• Pinion welcomes Kugel's powerful fleet with open arms as he is tempted by the idea of adding another Machine Caliber to his upstart fleet
  
• Kugel's influence over the masses allows him to take control of Pinion's fleet
  
• Kugel and his cult seek to forcibly unite Gargantia under the GA banner, and of course only Ledo can stand in their way

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kumbayah

Humans and Hideauze (as proven by the 99% gene-matching with just a different exoskeleton whalesquids) could coexist and anyone who would say otherwise didn't watch the previous episodes.

I'm not sure if that counts as co-existence. The whalesquids basically killed any human that dared to cross their borders.

It's more like that they led completely separated existences in a sort of truce that could escalate to war any time.

[Gundamx]

Why he have problem killing them even though he killed pirates without problem?

[Kumbayah]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I'm not sure if that counts as co-existence. The whalesquids basically killed any human that dared to cross their borders.

It's more like that they led completely separated existences in a sort of truce that could escalate to war any time.

But does that mean we attack them just because it's a possibility? We don't kill chimpanzees just because they pose the threat of evolving into a higher intelligence and might enslave the human race.

[Endless Soul]

I kept facepalming every time Pinion spoke. I just know he's going to make some very bad decisions that are going to get people killed. (Dear Zod PLEASE don't let it be Melty!)

I compared the Machine Caliber in this episode to Col. Kugel's in episode one, and it is indeed one and the same.

Endless "Sending mojo to Melty" Soul

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kumbayah

But does that mean we attack them just because it's a possibility? We don't kill chimpanzees just because they pose the threat of evolving into a higher intelligence and might enslave the human race.

We do systematically kill animals that kill humans on an individual basis.
If a shark eats a human, a squad is formed to hunt that shark and kill it. The same goes for lions, tigers and so on. Dogs that kill humans face the same fate.

Of course I agree that it was wrong for Ledo to exterminate the whole nest. But I can't say that it was completely wrong to kill the whalesquids that automatically attacked the incoming fleet and that would have likely killed Pinion and his squad for taking what they essentially don't even need.


It's hard to make a comparison with other animals because the whalesquids pose a higher threat than any other animal and they display coordinated aggressive behavior.
They behave more like hive animals, such as ants and wasps. And in truth for the latter people completely destroy their nests if they find one in a residential area.

[Byakou]

They're just continuing a war they don't even remember why they started. By the end of the series when we know more I don't think there will be a "wrong" side. Remember in the first episode, it was clear that the society Ledo was part of was some kind of totalitarian state. Ledo was snatched from his parents, and put to work as a soldier to freeze/unfreeze at their convenience when they needed him, basically treated like a commodity rather than a person. People say that that the hideazu lost their humanity. Hah. Like the GA hasn't.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Kumbayah

Chamber was wrong in some points. The Gallatic Alliance and Space Hideauze Civlization were antagonistic with each other. Humans and Hideauze (as proven by the 99% gene-matching with just a different exoskeleton whalesquids) could coexist and anyone who would say otherwise didn't watch the previous episodes. Higher or lower life form, either way doesn't give you the right to kill every one of them.

Hideauze and Squidwhales went by different evolutionary paths. One expands its territory the other mostly keeps at its established territory.

Fact with the former is that they always stand in the Alliance's way. Even after they lost their human intellect.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Byakou

People say that that the hideazu lost their humanity. Hah. Like the GA hasn't.

They didn't lose it, they simply suppress it. Ledo is a living proof of that.

I might change my mind if I see a Hideauze experiencing an existential crisis after knowing that humans are their ancestors.

[Jetzero Infinity]

This week's ep was certainly interesting. Pinion is turning out to become much more ruthless than I expected and it seems like it's only a matter of time before he does something that'll get himself, and likely the rest if his crew killed. It was also pretty interesting to see everyone's reactions to his declaration and it's nice to see their almost all equally disturbed. Should be interesting to see how things turn out on that end.

On Ledo's side of things he spent most of the episode in angst as I expected and it certainly wasn't surprising to see him question the nature of the war itself and if there's even a point him continuing it. What I wasn't expecting though was Chamber snapping Ledo out of it, and actually giving him a pretty compelling reason to continue on. Of course it remains to be seen how much Ledo will take it to heart, and with his commander from the Alliance showing up at the end of the ep, it looks like it's decision making time for Ledo. Next week should be pretty epic.

[Wandering_Youth]

Here I thought Chamber might of been the last boss, but he proved to be on Ledo's side. A machine giving a human a reason to continue the fight and live.