Bakemonogatari - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Marion]

Originally Posted by ac195

Hahaha,

SHHHHHH!!! You can't say anything negative about this series... unless you wanna be gang raped by an angry mob...

Things like... SHAFT = the best tracing "animation" studio ever... are not welcomed apparently, even though it's true.

inorite :<

Now everyone, since all of you majorly said something similar to one another, this is just the way I felt about the episode. Don't get me wrong, I just find a couple things odd here and there. But overall the episode didn't catch me. For the most part I got bored about three minutes into the car ride and my anticipation only raised when the dad began to talk.

Still I just don't generally have a natural feel from Hitagi and Araragi's relationship yet. As the show advances I'm sure I will, but just not yet. And seeing as that's a major part in this episode it lowered by score down, among a couple other things as I said before.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by ac195

Hahaha,

SHHHHHH!!! You can't say anything negative about this series... unless you wanna be gang raped by an angry mob...

Things like... SHAFT = the best tracing "animation" studio ever... are not welcomed apparently, even though it's true.

Maybe if you presented your points in a clueful way you wouldn't have so many problems but you seem to insist on ignoring that possibility. I pilloried episode 10 and Shinbo's ever-repeated budget animation bungling without any excessive negative feedback. I like the works they pick but they repeatedly seem unable to produce a broadcast version that isn't broken.

As far as Marion's remarks - Ice Block already responded as I would have.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

The way the episode ended, and not seeing the kiss made it all the more sweet in my opinion. The fact that we know they're going to kiss adds to this.

Originally Posted by Miyuki-ism

I agree, just leave it to your own mind, did Araragi screw up? Who knows, I haven't read the novels. XD

Good point.. good point.. but I'll hold my opinion true. It was a great ending scene though.

This series is really re-watchable. Can't wait for the BD. Just hope someone does them.

[zato_1one]

Thanks for the cookie.

Originally Posted by Ice Block

With source material this good, how can you go wrong?

Case in point: Higurashi. Umineko even. DEEN's sub-par animation was (is being) carried by excellent plot.

And to quote an interview reported on sirn's blog:

Assuming that this info is reliable. I think that he is modest. Even if the source is good, it's still not guarantee the success. I think that adapt the novel is more difficult than manga or game. Turning pure texts into animation isn't something easy to do. There are many anime which actually ruin or inferior to the source. Not only it is difficult to animate, it's also very hard to please both anime watchers and novel readers. I'd say that it really depends on the skill. Shaft can successfully animate Bakemonogatari. But it by no means that other studio can also achieve the same result even if they use the same source. IMO

BTW, the first Blu-ray raw is already out. The most obvious different is ...

Spoiler for a bit NSFW:

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Don't forget: she also "trained" Koyomi to stop calling her by her family name! Now what would it take to get him to drop the honorific?

Maybe she could start by calling him by his given name without an honorific, rather than by his surname with one. That was one of the many, many funny things in this episode: when she browbeat him into calling her "Hitagi(-san)," then immediately called him "Araragi-kun."

One thing we know, continuing to use the honorific didn't stop her from saying something ear-blushingly erotic to him, and nibbling sensually on said appendage.

I also loved how she pulled him forcefully out of the car -- then dropped his hand. The moment when she poked the rice into his cheek and started laughing uncontrollably got me laughing uncontrollably. And the way she broke the meme by throwing the rice away was also memorably hilarious.

People who didn't enjoy the convo in the car, or who criticize their relationship as unnatural, maybe just don't enjoy what the show has to offer. The bizarre conversation and the highly unnatural but deeply touching relationship are two of the reasons I have been able to watch this ep four times, with undiminished enjoyment.

I can understand people's complaints about the comparative lack of actual animation, too -- although I don't in the slightest feel the same way.

One more thing: the final starry night gave me more love for the night sky in a few seconds than the (fairly okay) Sora no Manima ni did in a whole series.

[sirn]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Even if the source is good, it's still not guarantee the success. I think that adapt the novel is more difficult than manga or game. Turning pure texts into animation isn't something easy to do. There are many anime which actually ruin or inferior to the source.

"It's easier to ruin a perfectly good series than make it success."
—Ōta Katsushi, editor-in-chief of Kodansha BOX at KOBO Sōkai 2009.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I can understand people's complaints about the comparative lack of actual animation, too -- although I don't in the slightest feel the same way.

In all honesty, it never crossed my head while watching the episode.

I was simply too drawn into the conversation to notice anything else.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

One thing we know, continuing to use the honorific didn't stop her from saying something ear-blushingly erotic to him, and nibbling sensually on said appendage.

That part was so awesome. I saw it coming when she said she was going to make Kanabaru look innocent.. only one way to do that. And the little nibble at the end..

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

In all honesty, it never crossed my head while watching the episode.

I was simply too drawn into the conversation to notice anything else.

Same here. They may have let up on the animation because most people would be more focused on the conversation. But it wasn't the visuals that made the episode this time around, it was the dialogue. Not that the visuals didn't help.. like Koyomi's ear turning red as she continued to whisper to him.

[achirist]

I love SHAFT shows; they've created the most beautiful, most amazing animation; in shows like EF, and for Bakemonogatari. I'm so glad that SHAFT was in charge of this show, as most animation studios I'm sure couldn't find such interesting, creative direction for this mass of dialogue. And aside from the snake episode, I never felt fatigued by the style, or felt shortsighted by the animation. Those little cuts with text are interesting, I've always felt; it will be interesting if they are changed for the dvd, but if not (discounting the snake episode) that's fine with me. Shinbou is #1.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Marion

inorite :<

Now everyone, since all of you majorly said something similar to one another, this is just the way I felt about the episode. Don't get me wrong, I just find a couple things odd here and there. But overall the episode didn't catch me. For the most part I got bored about three minutes into the car ride and my anticipation only raised when the dad began to talk.

Still I just don't generally have a natural feel from Hitagi and Araragi's relationship yet. As the show advances I'm sure I will, but just not yet. And seeing as that's a major part in this episode it lowered by score down, among a couple other things as I said before.

How can you get bored during the car ride. It's not even about the relationship, seriously. It's about the incredibly hilariously awkward situation of going on your first date driven by your girlfriend's dad, and being forced to do shit like tell her 'I love you' and call her by her first name all within his terrifyingly stoic presence. It's funny. Bakemonogatari is funny. That's what that scene was for, not forcing an unnatural relationship upon you. Frankly, the relationship is supposed to be unnatural, what with Araragi's terrified nervousness and Senjougahara's violent and demeaning possessiveness, until that final stargazing scene, when their relationship finally starts moving beyond desperate self-interestedness.

I actually agree though with Araragi x Senjougahara not really doing it for me. The stargazing scene was one of the most touching and well done romance scenes I've seen in a long time, but it still didn't really change my fundamental issues with the couple. I also wasn't perfectly satisfied with the animation either; Senjougaha's and occasionally Araragi's faces seemed a bit too wide for me. Still though, this episode was damned funny, and the sheer execution of the important parts all was simply stunning; that's why I frankly disagree with any assessment of the car ride as 'boring'--if you can simply back off from a predetermined disinclination for their relationship in general, then that sequence is simply hilarious.

[DragoZERO]

Not to mention she whispering naughty things into his ear and rubbing his upper leg (with her father in the front seat) during the car ride too!

That may be the third time I've mentioned that... hmm... lol.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Not to mention she whispering naughty things into his ear and rubbing his upper leg (with her father in the front seat) during the car ride too!

That may be the third time I've mentioned that... hmm... lol.

Lucky devil.

Just goes to show, that men aren't the only perverts.

[Aza-oniichan]

But sejougahara's pervertness is one thing makes her soo cute, and unique. At the end, the scene gives nice impression to the audience by not showing how they're kissing, followed by the ending theme that perfectly match the stargazing scene.

Yeah, i focused on the dialogues, its hilarious but also a bit emotional when her father talks like that. I never thought senjougahara lives that kind of life. Look at how her father so pleased when he saw his daughter so happy.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Aza-oniichan

Yeah, i focused on the dialogues, its hilarious but also a bit emotional when her father talks like that. I never thought senjougahara lives that kind of life. Look at how her father so pleased when he saw his daughter so happy.

Well, he really is a terrible father. I'm surprised she is still on talking terms as much as she is with him. Although what happened isn't directly his fault, he didn't help the situation.

[Voitan]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Frankly, the relationship is supposed to be unnatural, what with Araragi's terrified nervousness and Senjougahara's violent and demeaning possessiveness, until that final stargazing scene, when their relationship finally starts moving beyond desperate self-interestedness.

THIS.

Until the stargazing scene, I thought Hitagi jumped into the relationship thinking it to be logical, pressuring Araragi into it, and him just going with the flow.

But after that scene, I feel like they're attempting something more normal than what they had going on before.

Now with things looking to go right in all ways (the Hitagi Araragi relationship), I await how the Hanekawa arc will impact this, or change it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had to break up, or it strengthened/weakened it.

[klare]

i thought this eps will continue with the cat, anyway i dont mind how it turned out

cant blame Araragi being nervous when in the 1st date u meet the parents...

Hitagi actually knew her own weaknesses and trying to change, good news for Araragi (how can u stand being teased and bullied all the time by your gf?)

good eps and nice ending

[shaolinx]

Nice ep, but theres one thing I dont get: How she can show her nude body in front of a STRANGER and still proclaim that she is scared of a sexual relationship???

[aulzon]

Originally Posted by shaolinx

Nice ep, but theres one thing I dont get: How she can show her nude body in front of a STRANGER and still proclaim that she is scared of a sexual relationship???

Well might be more of a psychological issue. She's not afraid of sexuality but the act of sex itself because of obviously the traumatic issue.

She loves Araragi, but probably feels that if she and him were in the same situation that caused her trauma in the past she would associate it with her previous situation. She would panic, hurt him and come to hate him the same way she hated that guy who tried to rape her.

That's my thoughts about it anyways.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by aulzon

Well might be more of a psychological issue. She's not afraid of sexuality but the act of sex itself because of obviously the traumatic issue.

She loves Araragi, but probably feels that if she and him were in the same situation that caused her trauma in the past she would associate it with her previous situation. She would panic, hurt him and come to hate him the same way she hated that guy who tried to rape her.

That's my thoughts about it anyways.

That and the fact that she basically thought of him as beneath dirt in the very beginning. Her view of him was vastly different after the 2nd episode.

[rurupeceaue]

Originally Posted by klare

i thought this eps will continue with the cat, anyway i dont mind how it turned out

cant blame Araragi being nervous when in the 1st date u meet the parents...

Hitagi actually knew her own weaknesses and trying to change, good news for Araragi (how can u stand being teased and bullied all the time by your gf?)

I think it's probably because Koyomi is a bit of a masochist...with all those verbal abuse he receives from his girlfriend. Maybe he enjoys it conversing with Hitagi that way...lol

Originally Posted by shaolinx

Nice ep, but theres one thing I dont get: How she can show her nude body in front of a STRANGER and still proclaim that she is scared of a sexual relationship???

Aside from what the others had said, I think it's probably because Hitagi doesn't know how to act in front of a person.I mean, she doesn't even know how to make a request without being blunt about it. Probably, it was just her way of saying 'thanks' to him, in her perverted own way ;P