(L) Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

Okay, you're just biased then. The original didn't start kicking gear until later on before the turn of the second half before then it was mindnumbingly slow and the characters didn't branch out or became who they were in the span of 9 episodes either

This is a completely meaningless statement. If I state I was enjoying the show a lot all throughout it, this makes me biased for it? Well damn, anyone who likes something is biased. Good to hear.

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

Never said that and since when is AO obtuse? It's been pretty straight forward with explaining everything the only mystery is Truth himself and even then his goals has been outlined since his appearance, you're just not paying attention. Now if Renton and anyone else from the first series shows up then I guaranteea your eyes would sty glued permanently to the screen

You talked about being spoon fed information. Being spoon fed implies that I want them to make the show easier to understand. I'm saying that intentionally obfuscating story details, making it more obtuse doesn't inherently make it good or bad, but what does harm it in my opinion is not drawing a more direct connection to Eureka 7.

In my opinion, if you borrow the name of a franchise, it must be exactly clear that it's a part of it. I have no reason to believe that anything I've seen from this show so far benefited from this being a sequel to Eureka 7. It easily could have been changed around to be an entirely new mecha property, and honestly I might be enjoying it more in that case.

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

Well that's really what you believe and not the general definition of a sequel. If you were even paying attention to anything in the last episode of E7 (obviously you weren't) then there shouldn't be any need to have any doubt that this was a sequel, the fact that they've been laying out hints all this time and Eureka herself appearing. This all comes down to you complaining that the show is not spoonfeeding you every single detail early in the game when it has it's own story and problems to focus on which may even related to how it relates to it's predecessor.

Please desist with personal attacks.

Of course it's what I believe. You can believe differently. To me though I think it's a disservice to fans to do so. Again, why call this Eureka 7?

Like I said I'm being patient, but a theory based upon dialogue from the last episode of Eureka 7 plus a basic implication that Eureka is Ao's mother hardly draws the type of direct connection between the series as I was talking about.

When you watched the original mobile suit Gundam and then got to Zeta Gundam (Which was an even better show!), you had characters like Bright and Char in the very first episode. The world was certainly different, and the political organization of everything was different, but it was still easily verifiable as a UC gundam timeline series. As the series went on, we learned about how they got there and what was happening, and what people wanted to do. We got to see older characters still having an impact on the show, not suddenly disappearing, and all the old ideas of the previous show didn't suddenly evaporate. Yet it was still different enough so that it wasn't a stale product by any stretch of the imagination.

To me that was a shining example of how a sequel should be. Eureka 7 Ao on the other hand does not exemplify any of these qualities at the moment. I still think the first 3 episodes were very good, but particularly when Truth started showing up the show started to go very downhill.

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

There's nothing particular "vague" about the hints either

Yes asking fans to remember a line of dialogue from the last episode of Eureka 7 which aired several years ago and to make a theory on how they got here isn't vague. Plus this isn't official by any means and we still have to learn more why the world is what it is. Besides the Nirvash (Which hardly feels like the Nirvash) and mentions of Eureka as the blue haired woman, this series literally has nothing to go off of as being a real sequel. Sorry, I don't find this correct and it does hamper my enjoyment as what I feel I been watching feels extremely different from Eureka 7 in the first place. Again, why not have made a new mecha property and not another Eureka 7?


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EDIT: Anyways if you want to continue this conversation best we save it for VM/PM like CrowKenobi suggested. I don't have a problem discussing differing viewpoints, just please relent on the personal attacks.

[Flawfinder]

I wonder if this is how the 21 Jump Street fans felt when they saw the movie? Or what the Fate/Stay Night fans felt when they saw Fate/Zero...oh wait.

But in all honesty, while it's true that the sequel is different from the first series, it isn't THAT different. I can still tell it's by the same people, even if the writer is different. It still has the complex themes, the grand scope, the fluid animation, and the flawed characters of the first series. It just has some added camp value and takes itself less seriously, that's all.

Edit: Recently wrote a post on my new anime blog to address this series' new tone. I hope you guys check it out when you have the time, although I expect to get bashed for not being taken in by the awesomeness of the first series.

[RiderLeangle]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The setting

Eureka 7 had a completely different setting than our Earth. It wasn't even really connected at all to Earth. Modern day countries didn't exist, and there were interesting cultures and locations all around in E7. Exploring the setting of E7 was part of the fun, and there was always a sense of wonder about what was going on. You always felt like you were learning more and more about the world.

Comparatively Eureka 7 Ao clumsily integrated the idea of modern day countries, albeit with a twist on historical events. However, I felt the setting lost a lot of its appeal and now has become a bit boring. I'm not very interested in finding out more about this earth. Furthermore everything is so different I even wonder why they bothered to make a sequel of "eureka 7" like this. I suppose I'll eventually find out if at all, but this doesn't really feel like a sequel technically speaking (the stories don't really connect in a good way, which I think a sequel should IMO)

Can't help but point out Warsaw was in series 1, sure it wasn't the same one from the earth under the scub coral but worth noting. Although I can see why you didn't point that out considering it wasn't used in the way real world locations are being used in AO

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Eureka herself was a very charming character

And it'd be very understandable if someone actually fell in love with her *innocently whistles*

Originally Posted by jcdranzer

There are several things going good for this series particularly the character of Truth and the mystery behind his agenda. I know that Truth participation in episode 09 wasn't that great but the thing he did with destroying the car at the end of the episode was pretty cool but probably not as great as his invasion into Generation Blue, in which kept changing his body until he finally stuck with one, which is current form. Another interesting thing is that he calls Ao's Mark I/Nirvash his Nirvash.

Please don't let Truth be Renton... That just seems like it'd be really really really lame...

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

gg's usual wonky translation isn't helping much

As weird as hell as this is to hear.... Hadena's isn't bad actually...
*runs away before I get hatemail*

[Alchemist007]

Sounds like the series has picked up more arguing points in relation to the original's continuity as expected. Hopefully we'll learn the answers by the end.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Sounds like the series has picked up more arguing points in relation to the original's continuity as expected. Hopefully we'll learn the answers by the end.

Spoiler for Scub Coral liing to another universe:

AO universe would the universe that Gonzy talked about. Scub Coral are not assimilating everything like they did in the previous universe.

Questions are:

What are Secrets? Why are they destroying Scub Coral?

Who is Truth? Why is he saying this is an incorrect world?

How did Eureka end up in this universe? Where is Renton and the original Nirvash?

The rest is weekly world building. We get a familiar world to our own yet different world. E7 was revealed to be set on Earth 10,000 after exodus of humanity which resettled Earth. Here Scub Bursts and Secrets are treated as natural disasters which are treated as economic opportunities.

[MeisterBabylon]

I get a feeling that harvesting Quartz is effectively lobotomizing the Coral... Which then begets the question why are the Scub even tolerating this.

[Alchemist007]

Hide for now, destroy everything later.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I get a feeling that harvesting Quartz is effectively lobotomizing the Coral... Which then begets the question why are the Scub even tolerating this.

Actually this episode confirm that the Scub Coral do not appear out of nowhere. They need Quartz to serve as beacon to enter this universe.

Which means somebody has been planting Quartz for Scub arrival. It wouldn't surprise me if there are humanoid Coralians in the background like Gonzy.

If quartz do serve as beacon it would be also why Secret are homing in.

So far Secrets have been acting as antibodies against foreign intruders. Destroying the Scub in a big nuclear explosion.

We saw what happened to Tokyo.

I have a feeling the Coralians are working with Generation Bleu to minimize the collateral damage.

[Arabesque]

Having watched and enjoyed this show for nine weeks straight, I can say that I think what Reckoner said strikes me as being perfectly reasonable, even though I disagree on the specifies of the points he brings up.

For myself, I was sold on the show from the introductory episodes. It managed to hit all the right notes with me, not just as a stand alone series but as what I felt was a spiritual successor to E7. The animation was excellent, the fights were fun to watch, the characters and their VA were likable and matched well IMO, the music was good etc. but more than that, I felt that I was watching E7. It managed to capture the same feeling the first series had, and even now I can still sense the same vibe from the older show in the backdrop of this one. Maybe it's the hints we had been getting, but when it comes to those I'm having more fun trying to casually figure out what is going on (only to have it all be revealed near the end and for me to be mostly wrong ), so I'd like to think that there is a quality that is distinctly E7 included in this anime.

Of course, none of this is tangible. These are all feelings, hints and general aesthetics that sell me on the show and for me at least, enough to place my faith that I'm going to get something good out of AO by the end of the 24th episode. Which is exactly why I can empathize with Reckoner here. He is simply asking ''what exactly am I looking at?''. He wants to understand and know exactly what is this show going to do, and how does it relate to the older anime that he loved. I get that since again, this is a time investment into an anime that may or may not turn out to be related to the older E7 in a concrete way. I get the core of his position, and to be honest, I think that had I not been loving this show so much right now, I would be agreeing with him mostly.

Of course, I had accepted that no answers will be given at this time. It's like the older show where the answers were presented only at the finale. Or at least, That's what I think it going to happen here, since again, I have no way of actually knowing how will the series will unfold. I can only place my faith in that it does so in a satisfying manner.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The cast

Needless to say I really loved the cast of E7. Eureka herself was a very charming character and Renton was a very easy to empathize main character. But even more than that it was the supporting cast that really made this show shine. Characters like Holland and Tahlo. And you know? They were all adults, and adults who got full out character arcs and development.

Eureka 7 Ao has a few adults, much of whom have barely got any notable development so far ( This is a 2 cour show and they definitely have less time to do it). The main focus on the show is on Ao who is actually pretty decent, though perhaps getting a bit static lately. The thing is Ao barely interacts with anyone save perhaps Fleur in a meaningful manner (Which isn't all that great itself, but it's OK). All the other pilots are female children, which sort of trivializes the drama at play. All in all there's basically of little interest to me here besides Ao and maybe Naru who has been barely on screen since the beginning.

To me the stark different in cast quality is just seen in comparing these two images.

Spoiler for For Space:

I skipped over the setting section since I felt it would come down to personal preference (I honestly feel the politics in this anime had been very well handled and I'm very interested in learning more about this world, so ...) so I came to this one here.

I do agree that compared to the older anime, AO lacks the same amount of diverse cast members, however I don't think that is a bad thing when the show has less time compared to the older anime, so I would think that having a lesser amount would be better to help focus on the more core characters.

Also, I don't really think it matters much if the cast is made out of adults or out of children, I mean look at a show like Dennou Coil. What was impressive about Holland and Tahlo was their past history and inner demons, motivations for what they did and do in the series, the development they received and how much they changed and grow (yes, grow) to be better people thanks to it (the scene where Holland starts to cry gets me every time), and most importantly, they had their moments where they had shown exactly how great they were. Being adults, I think, doesn't really factor much into it other than it helps with making them have a history together.

So far with AO I've felt that the stories presented were pretty good, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to the older anime when this show didn't get around to showing us exactly how will these plot lines will conclude. Ao's and Fleur's stories so far are the ones I'm most involved in, but I can't really compare them when they had just started.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The raw emotion

Eureka 7 was awesome at conveying raw emotion. You could really get into the characters and what they were feeling. Again this may be related to the cast itself but it also has to do with certain little touches. I thought one reason Renton was really easy to get into was because so many of the episodes at the beginning and end included personal narration of his character. You always got queued into what exactly he was feeling, what he was doing things for, what his thought process was. These sorts of touches really helped. Beyond this was just some really solid character building episodes.

Eureka 7 Ao doesn't have this kind of personalization, and the plot moves so quickly so far that you can't really slow down to absorb the characters on any level. Of course it also doesn't have that personal narration I was talking about so Ao is not quite as likable as Renton to me, and it's actually kind of hard to be able to tell what he's really feeling in general. I feel emotionally detached from these characters, and the show hardly has the sort of raw emotion that I appreciated in the original. There were glimpses of it, particularly in the first 3 episodes, but since then I haven't really seen it.

You might be one of the few people out there who liked Renton's personal narration form the get go

For me, I find Ao a lot more likable than Renton, and I generally liked Renton. I never got the feeling like he was hard to understand, on the contrary, I think that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and is easy to figure out (and see that he is a good kid). I don't know, but I've always felt the raw emotion in this anime, and even now I can still feel it.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The soundtrack

Eureka 7 Ao's sound track isn't bad, might even be pretty decent, but Eureka 7 had an AMAZING sound track in my opinion. The main reason is that it had several defining tracks, perhaps most notable of them all being Storywriter. Eureka 7 Ao lacks something like this. The audio portion definitely isn't as impressive as a result, and ot me great audio can really help enhance a series. Perhaps Eureak 7 Ao had too tough an act to follow, but I hope it wasn't too much to expect to get something like another Storywriter.

Well, I will say that I think this is overall the 4th best OST of the season right now, but I can conceded that the original is better by virtue of being so excellent. I just think that this one has a really tough act to follow.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The Conflict

Eureka 7 was just a great big adventure. A very fun one as well. Gekkostate always had a goal, but Renton didn't learn about them in detail until later and was really just along for the ride. But what was always there was a sense of adventure as they explore places, until of course shit starts to hit the fan in the series and it became more than just an adventure, but a fullout conflict with the people on the planet who waged war against the colarians. The way the conflict was built up was quite excellent.

Eureka 7 Ao is just a monster of the week, and this isn't inherently bad (My favorite anime is NGE...), but the execution of it is quite lacking and it's also a bit of a jarring transition from the spirit of E7. This no longer feels like a big adventure, but more so a battle against some primitive life form that look pretty damn bland. They also aren't very horrifying and always seem like easy fodder for Generation Bleu, so there's hardly any tension or sense of impending doom in this series. Unlike NGE as well this series isn't very introspective and concerned with the ideas of existentialism or depression or things like the hedge hog's dilemma among other things, so on that front the show cannot hope to keep a compelling conflict. It all draws back to these monsters and the truth (Who feels like a joke at this point), which don't really give me any sense of tension they should.

To be perfectly honest, everything you just said about AO and the MoTW problem can be attributed to the original and then some. We may have learnt that the seemingly filler episodes actually had a goal later on, but that didn't make them on first viewing a very, very strange and confusing experience for a lot of people. Yes, they were fun, and they did help add a lot for the cast (as I would argue these first nine episode did for AO) but even then, a lot of the time you started to wonder if the show actually had a clear goal if you had been watching the show without any prior knowledge. It honestly felt like a random collection of short stories than anything.

With AO, while the MoTW formula is starting to wear a bit thin, I always get that there is a clear goal to be accomplished, a clear enemy to be defeated etc. I get the impression that the show is still on track, the conflict is still on going, the story is still moving on. I don't feel like there is a ''filler'' in there.

Most importantly, I get the feeling that with each week, I'm learning something new about the world and/or it's cast, and slowly the mystery is starting to be revealed. For me I can say that's a huge plus over some of the episodes in the old E7 IMO.

[Daniel Lind]

For myself, I was sold on the show from the introductory episodes. It managed to hit all the right notes with me, not just as a stand alone series but as what I felt was a spiritual successor to E7.

I agree with this absolutely... but only until episode 4. That's where it switched from its inner E7 to inner NGE and it really shows more and more by week. It tripped hard over the whole Goldilocks deal and then faceplanted into Truth's cliche dialogue, to be metaphorical.

For me, I find Ao a lot more likable than Renton, and I generally liked Renton.

Without even going into talking about Renton, what is going on with Ao anyway?
Ao hates his father he never knew for reasons he made up for himself.
Ao doesn't really care much about Naru, or doesn't even bother to show it. "I'll take Nirvash and save you wherever you ar--- oh guess not. Oh well. Let's swag, Fleur." I understand what's supposed to be happening, but it's shown so briefly and torn up it comes across as if Ao just really is indifferent.
I can't say I like him anymore.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Without even going into talking about Renton, what is going on with Ao anyway?
Ao hates his father he never knew for reasons he made up for himself.
Ao doesn't really care much about Naru, or doesn't even bother to show it. "I'll take Nirvash and save you wherever you ar--- oh guess not. Oh well. Let's swag, Fleur." I understand what's supposed to be happening, but it's shown so briefly and torn up it comes across as if Ao just really is indifferent.
I can't say I like him anymore.

I'm a fan of the Cowboy Bebop approach to storytelling, so obviously, I really like the fact that he doesn't dwell on this stuff too much.

[Daniel Lind]

I'm a fan of the Cowboy Bebop approach to storytelling, so obviously, I really like the fact that he doesn't dwell on this stuff too much.

It just makes him look like a really shallow and even contradicting character in my eyes. Is this still Eureka Seven or are we watching G Gundam?

[ChocoBar9]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Ao hates his father he never knew for reasons he made up for himself.

If you only knew your mother for the first few years of your life, and knew only that your father wasn't there for her or you, I'm sure it would be a common sentiment. Ao doesn't even know very much about Eureka, let alone Renton. Obviously Ao won't like his father at first. All he knows is that his (presumably single) mother had to take care of him for his first few years of his life...alone. He probably doesn't even know that Eureka was forced to be separated from Renton.

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Ao doesn't really care much about Naru, or doesn't even bother to show it. "I'll take Nirvash and save you wherever you ar--- oh guess not. Oh well. Let's swag, Fleur." I understand what's supposed to be happening, but it's shown so briefly and torn up it comes across as if Ao just really is indifferent.
I can't say I like him anymore.

Considering in the previous episode we saw him trying to take the Nirvash and fly off to go find her but was stopped just short of launch? So you basically want him to mope around being worried about Naru while bringing everyone else down because of it? Did you just completely miss the point of episode 5?

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

It just makes him look like a really shallow and even contradicting character in my eyes. Is this still Eureka Seven or are we watching G Gundam?

How is it shallow or contradicting? He knows Naru's been captured but he really can't do anything about it since he doesn't know the first place to even start looking and there's also the fact that GB is monitoring him. The fact that he was eager to train means he's what's to be prepared for the next encounter with Truth so he can rescue her. Also when are you gonna get it through your head that Ao's problems is not the same as Renton's

[Daniel Lind]

If you only knew your mother for the first few years of your life, and knew only that your father wasn't there for her or you, I'm sure it would be a common sentiment.

Not really, it wouldn't. Ao goes on assuming things and hating people that were never a part of his life. His only family is the old Fukai guy. His feelings are not impossible, but they do not make him likeable.
"I hate my father". -- "Why?" -- "He left my mother alone." -- "How do you know this?" -- "I don't remember him being there."
Astonishing logic on display.

Considering in the previous episode we saw him trying to take the Nirvash and fly off to go find her but was stopped just short of launch?

That's what I meant by "Guess not." That was the ONLY thing that he did and after that he kinda shrugged it off. Yes, I do want him to show that he's still worried. It would be only natural of him.

Did you just completely miss the point of episode 5?

Elaborate.

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Actually this episode confirm that the Scub Coral do not appear out of nowhere. They need Quartz to serve as beacon to enter this universe.

Which means somebody has been planting Quartz for Scub arrival. It wouldn't surprise me if there are humanoid Coralians in the background like Gonzy.

If quartz do serve as beacon it would be also why Secret are homing in.

So far Secrets have been acting as antibodies against foreign intruders. Destroying the Scub in a big nuclear explosion.

We saw what happened to Tokyo.

I have a feeling the Coralians are working with Generation Bleu to minimize the collateral damage.

I didn't think of them as beacons, because if that were so wouldn't it be wiser to dig from the side of the coral and retrieve the quartz, than have to go vertically down an entire mountain's height to get them?

Also, the 3 stooges surmised that the quartz were being collected and hidden inside GenBleu, implying that whoever's planting them isn't working with GB. If there's someone planting them.

My understanding was that the Quartz was central to the coral's metabolism ("The Scub coral has begun producing harmful particles"), and removing that calms it down. Its not the power source, as the coral itself is producing trapar that is being mined. Maybe its some kind of coordination node for the entire coral, and removing it just puts the whole structure into standby. At least that was my theory.

~~~

I'd prefer to see the Scub Coral as Tiberium. Someone is dropping those things from another plane, and its terraforming the planet slowly. Extracting the Quartz stops them from rapidly growing and doing so, creating a vibrant economy for the planet.

I swear, someday, the President's going to bait someone into dropping a nuke on (an already evacuated) GenBleu HQ, igniting all of the stored Quartz at once, and sending a gigantic plume of energy into deep space. This serves as the cue to invite the full and complete invasion arrival of the Scub Coral.

Truth is the immortal prophet who will shed light on this scheme!

[ChocoBar9]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Not really, it wouldn't.

Actually it would. What's hilarious is that you seem to dismiss the fact that Ao is just a kid

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Ao goes on assuming things and hating people that were never a part of his life. His only family is the old Fukai guy. His feelings are not impossible, but they do not make him likeable.

And that is completely natural for a kid his age and if anything it makes him more human than what alot of people initially perceived. That really is a silly reason to mark a character as unlikable

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

"I hate my father". -- "Why?" -- "He left my mother alone." -- "How do you know this?" -- "I don't remember him being there."
Astonishing logic on display.

His response is generally he wasn't there. Usually when people get that response they don't answer "How you know this? Because number one you don't know what he's been through without a father so it's unethical to even assume that. What's worse is that you're going about it like he's suppose to know what happened to his father when the last time we saw him with his mother he was only three years old. This is quite a pathetic display you've conjured up.

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

That's what I meant by "Guess not." That was the ONLY thing that he did and after that he kinda shrugged it off. Yes, I do want him to show that he's still worried. It would be only natural of him.

Except the fact that he hasn't shrugged it off, Naru's kidnapped but he's not gonna go about and mope about it he knows why he joined GB in the first place and that's not gonna stop him from doing what they expect him to do. It's "natural" to you because that's what you want YOU want him to do and you're going about this with the assumption that all people deals with issues the same way.

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Elaborate.

The whole point of Fleur asking him why did he come to GB to do, she wanted to see that he wasn't expecting them to fall over for him and follow his own agenda. Another is Bruno's last warning to Ao about thinking over his decision in joining the organization because it'll make the people around him sad. This correlating with his revelation in episode 6 as to what he's expected to do and why Pied Piper needs him. Not that hard to figure out

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

For myself, I was sold on the show from the introductory episodes. It managed to hit all the right notes with me, not just as a stand alone series but as what I felt was a spiritual successor to E7. The animation was excellent, the fights were fun to watch, the characters and their VA were likable and matched well IMO, the music was good etc. but more than that, I felt that I was watching E7. It managed to capture the same feeling the first series had, and even now I can still sense the same vibe from the older show in the backdrop of this one. Maybe it's the hints we had been getting, but when it comes to those I'm having more fun trying to casually figure out what is going on (only to have it all be revealed near the end and for me to be mostly wrong ), so I'd like to think that there is a quality that is distinctly E7 included in this anime.

Well I was in your camp for the first three episodes. What transpired afterwards with team Goldilocks and the Truth is where I fell off the wagon.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Of course, none of this is tangible. These are all feelings, hints and general aesthetics that sell me on the show and for me at least, enough to place my faith that I'm going to get something good out of AO by the end of the 24th episode. Which is exactly why I can empathize with Reckoner here. He is simply asking ''what exactly am I looking at?''. He wants to understand and know exactly what is this show going to do, and how does it relate to the older anime that he loved. I get that since again, this is a time investment into an anime that may or may not turn out to be related to the older E7 in a concrete way. I get the core of his position, and to be honest, I think that had I not been loving this show so much right now, I would be agreeing with him mostly.

Of course, I had accepted that no answers will be given at this time. It's like the older show where the answers were presented only at the finale. Or at least, That's what I think it going to happen here, since again, I have no way of actually knowing how will the series will unfold. I can only place my faith in that it does so in a satisfying manner.

I'm fine with answers being presented later honestly... I'm not asking this show to tell me what the Truth is about (Though I thought this writing choice was generally poor), or what's up with quartz or the G monsters... These are things that generally most anime will not answer immediately and not for quite some time. All I'm asking is something I can really get behind that reminds me that this is indeed Eureka 7. I was feeling it in the first 3 episodes but the show now feels so so so different to me that I can't even recognize what I am watching anymore. Not quite sure this is Eureka 7.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I do agree that compared to the older anime, AO lacks the same amount of diverse cast members, however I don't think that is a bad thing when the show has less time compared to the older anime, so I would think that having a lesser amount would be better to help focus on the more core characters.

Also, I don't really think it matters much if the cast is made out of adults or out of children, I mean look at a show like Dennou Coil. What was impressive about Holland and Tahlo was their past history and inner demons, motivations for what they did and do in the series, the development they received and how much they changed and grow (yes, grow) to be better people thanks to it (the scene where Holland starts to cry gets me every time), and most importantly, they had their moments where they had shown exactly how great they were. Being adults, I think, doesn't really factor much into it other than it helps with making them have a history together.

So far with AO I've felt that the stories presented were pretty good, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to the older anime when this show didn't get around to showing us exactly how will these plot lines will conclude. Ao's and Fleur's stories so far are the ones I'm most involved in, but I can't really compare them when they had just started.

Well the way I'm looking at it right now, we're about at the 1/3 point of this show, and getting closer to the half point (If this ends up getting more cours that would be more assuring but no indication of that so far). In the first series by this point we already got plenty of development for many of the cast members, most all being Renton and Eureka, as well as Tahlo and Holland (Not saying they finished their character arcs since that doesn't happen for quite some time, but neither has Ao for any characters). Just things that were hooking me about their characters and kept me interested in following them.

I like Ao in this show, and Fleur so far has been OK, but that's where hte majority of the development has been and nowhere else. Considering Ao has started becoming very static, at least in comparison to the gradual evolution of Renton throughout E7, I question what they were doing with their time. Well one explanation would be that they are focusing more on plot lines and setting developments, but both because I find this setting a bit bland in comparison and I'm not invested in many of the characters I find it hard to really enjoy what I am seeing.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

You might be one of the few people out there who liked Renton's personal narration form the get go

For me, I find Ao a lot more likable than Renton, and I generally liked Renton. I never got the feeling like he was hard to understand, on the contrary, I think that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and is easy to figure out (and see that he is a good kid). I don't know, but I've always felt the raw emotion in this anime, and even now I can still feel it.

I thought it was sort of there in the first 3 episodes, but the introduction of team Goldilocks and then the Truth really took it out of me. I guess when I saw a 9 year old lecturing Ao like she was an experience adult it left me with a frown. The Truth obviously isn't helping me either. I still believe the largest issue besides this Truth nonsense is mostly who Ao interacts with. I liked his relationship with Naru earlier in the series, but now she's nonexistent in the show and almost all of Ao's interactions are with Fleur now, which is pretty much summed up so far as "we hate our fathers." Not that it's bad, but by this point in E7 Renton had meaningful interactions with Eureka, Tahlo, his grandfather, Holland, Doggy, and more (Assuming we are at the 1/3 point like that show). Now surely they can't spread it to so many characters, this show is shorter, but not even half of that has been delivered here in my opinion (Sorry interacting with team goldilocks counts as a negative to me so lets not consider that).

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Well, I will say that I think this is overall the 4th best OST of the season right now, but I can conceded that the original is better by virtue of being so excellent. I just think that this one has a really tough act to follow.

I don't really blame the show, I did say myself it was a very tough act to follow. But the sound track was one of the defining aspects of the older show for me so alas .

Originally Posted by Arabesque

To be perfectly honest, everything you just said about AO and the MoTW problem can be attributed to the original and then some. We may have learnt that the seemingly filler episodes actually had a goal later on, but that didn't make them on first viewing a very, very strange and confusing experience for a lot of people. Yes, they were fun, and they did help add a lot for the cast (as I would argue these first nine episode did for AO) but even then, a lot of the time you started to wonder if the show actually had a clear goal if you had been watching the show without any prior knowledge. It honestly felt like a random collection of short stories than anything.

With AO, while the MoTW formula is starting to wear a bit thin, I always get that there is a clear goal to be accomplished, a clear enemy to be defeated etc. I get the impression that the show is still on track, the conflict is still on going, the story is still moving on. I don't feel like there is a ''filler'' in there.

Most importantly, I get the feeling that with each week, I'm learning something new about the world and/or it's cast, and slowly the mystery is starting to be revealed. For me I can say that's a huge plus over some of the episodes in the old E7 IMO.

Well you have to note the distinction I was making. Eureka 7 presented itself to me at first as a fun adventure, which eventually became something more as we learned what Gekkostate was about but that wasn't important to me initially since I was just having fun with the lively adventures of Gekkostate. Eureka 7 Ao doesn't feel like a fun adventure. It's a dramatic, tension filled show that revolves around a monster of the week format at this point. That's why I have I'm talking about the conflict being compelling, which to me it isn't.

Why isn't it? I'm not terribly into the characters for one thing. I hated team Goldilocks and what they brought into the show. The Truth was an even more mind boggling introduction into the show. Just a really weird character who feels so different from what I recognize as E7 that I'm kinda left scratching my head since I don't really have any faith that he will be bringing anything good to the show (You may feel differently this is just a feeling afterall).

Furthermore, the G monsters all look the same, don't talk, and are relatively just uninspiring in their abilities. The action and tension as a result is just not that great to me. It's neither fun like the middle portions of NGE episodes, nor gritty and intense like other NGE episodes (to compare to another MotW show). Well really this just opinions.

I'm still holding out here. I am not terribly insulted by this show or anything, just disappointed. Last Exile Fam was an insulting show though...

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

Not really, it wouldn't. Ao goes on assuming things and hating people that were never a part of his life. His only family is the old Fukai guy. His feelings are not impossible, but they do not make him likeable.
"I hate my father". -- "Why?" -- "He left my mother alone." -- "How do you know this?" -- "I don't remember him being there."
Astonishing logic on display.

Hmm, I'm gonna assume that you know no one personally that has the same exact situation. I know someone quite close to me with this problem, and the reaction Ao shows wasn't that unthinkable. The problem is, from what I heard, you see other kids playing happily with their father and you start wondering where yours is. This is made even worse when your mother refuse to tell you anything about it(or in Ao's case unable to) and you see your mother has to suffer because of it(either from working extra hard or again, in Ao's case from being discriminated). This is also why boys from a single mother family tends to overcompensate by showing their toughness, so they don't become their missing father.

It's not as absurd as you think, maybe it's only because you haven't experienced it personally(which I hope you will never do because I know I wouldn't want that happen to me or my close family member). My only qualm with the setting is only one. How the hell Ao confide his feeling about his father to Gazelle, one of te people bullying him. It would be much more understandable if the relevation comes from Naru who Ao's close with, but it just doesn't make sense for Gazelle to know about senstive information like this.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

It just makes him look like a really shallow and even contradicting character in my eyes. Is this still Eureka Seven or are we watching G Gundam?

That argument would hold more water with me if I actually cared about Naru. Unfortunately, I don't.

And also, I've seen people complain that the old E7 characters aren't in this show and what happened to Renton, and whatnot. I also don't care. There story is over as far as I'm concerned. I don't need to see them again. Besides, while I never disliked them, they didn't do much for me.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

That argument would hold more water with me if I actually cared about Naru. Unfortunately, I don't.

And also, I've seen people complain that the old E7 characters aren't in this show and what happened to Renton, and whatnot. I also don't care. There story is over as far as I'm concerned. I don't need to see them again. Besides, while I never disliked them, they didn't do much for me.

So why not just make a new anime project if that is the sentiment (It's not mine)? Why called it a Eureka 7 sequel if it doesn't REALLY feel like one in a tangible manner?