Higurashi Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[sagematt]

@imac2much: Ok, I didn't meant that. I edited my post
Sushi and kj stopping posting? Oyashiro-sama, please, NEVER let that happen, it would be really awful. They were the ones who got me into it (by reading their tips) and even made be buy the visual novels.

No, it's not their duty, and if they ultimately decide not to inform us, that's up to them. I'm just saying that they should think of us lesser fans as the younger siblings, we have only the bastardized version by Deen and our inability to read Japanese makes us feel helpless. I'm not asking to spoil us, it's just that if, the arc has ended, if they are going to talk about what was left out, it would be wise and polite to inform us, since I believe we are the ones with the most interest on that matter (for example, such kickass quote by Satoko being left out ).

[Keriaku]

Originally Posted by sagematt

Not always. Meakashi-hen ended, what's there to spoil? Whatever Deen left out is not a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Actually, something similar happened on another forum I frequent, when Fate/Stay Night ended.

sage: Dude, I can't believe Deen left out that much of the story. And why the fsck did they animate a messed-up Fate instead of UBW?!?! Even the 2nd opening spoiled UBW and Heaven's Feel!

Member 1: Oh well, can you now tell us what was left out?

sage: Wouldn't that be spoiling it all?

Member 2: Not really. The show ended. They probably will not show anymore of it. What's there to spoil?

sage: ...True dat.

Actually, there can still be spoilers even if the arc has ended. For example, what if something that is a clue to other arcs that aren't going to be aired is left out, it could still be a spoiler.

[Arimfe]

Poor Shion... she went beyond haywireness in this episode.
Poor Rika...
Poor Mion too.
Poor Satoko. Sorry to all the Satoko fans, but it sounded so funny in a cute way when she busted out her 人殺し! at Shion
For some bizare freaky reason I thought it was cute it reminded me of the earlier arc, and I almost imagined a "killer" tag being slapped onto Shion

and...poor Rena almost no screentime throughout this arc.

Originally Posted by sagematt

I got very angry after I watched episode 20 and I was like WTF? This arc still hasn't ended? Are they even going to animate Tsumihoroshi at all?. I guess we can only pray to Oyashiro-sama

I'll be praying with you

....*joins Oyashiro-sama club*

To Oyashiro-sama: I also want more ebil Rena for christmas ;_;
*sends letter to north pole*

[joshualimm]

Have just watched episode 21... and Ouch! Poor Satoko!

Spoiler for dunno how much of this is considered spoiler, but anyway::

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm actually wondering why the wounds on Satoko looked so shallow, especially after seeing how hard Shion delivered each stab. In fact, I'd think that she could've easily taken off Satoko's arms... Also, with all the blood that was shown splattering, I find it kinda weird how Shion's white outfit wasn't even stained, or how little blood stains were actually on Satoko.

Still, it was a real ordeal seeing Shion torture Satoko. However, since I'm also re-watching School Rumble and Galaxy Angel at the moment... Satoko's voice reminded me of that giraffe (pyotr was it?) and Nomad a little too much.

I actually thought the following, but I guess I was wrong:
1. Shion had already killed Satoko before they went to Satoko's house
2. *Something* might have happened, which would've resulted in her saying "血がない" repeatedly at Keiichi (wind's translation, eps 7)... Or was she actually saying "違いない" back then, after saying that "Rika-chan's disappearance is probably Satoko's fault too"?

Amazing episode. Also, call me crazy, but I don't find the distorted faces too distracting. In fact, I'd like to think that all those weird faces reflect just how twisted the story is turning into. As more and more violence is shown, the more the characters' faces distort.

Sigh.. I've got to really start learning Japanese.

[MarmoO]

It ended almost like in American movie – psycho bitch dies stupid death – hooray. Would it be that painful for Deen to animate three more minutes to show that last scene with Shion, which Sushi is talking about? Was that scene less important for Deen than showing more retarded facial distortions and reused animations from 8 episode? I’m kind of disappointed, also I would love to see "alternate ending" with “You” in background :/.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

It ended almost like in American movie – psycho bitch dies stupid death – hooray. Would it be that painful for Deen to animate three more minutes to show that last scene with Shion, which Sushi is talking about? Was that scene less important for Deen than showing more retarded facial distortions and reused animations from 8 episode? I’m kind of disappointed, also I would love to see "alternate ending" with “You” in background :/.

Maybe this missing stuff will be on DVD, as 4 or 5 minutes of extras, just to catch peoples attention to buy it (I doubt it)
On TV they have problems with commercial deals, time on screen, etc... Maybe that's the reason...

[Matrim]

Realy disappointing end to this arc, I was annoyed by the epiosde even before reading what parts of the game were skipped and I am even more disappointed after reading this. I am really hoping the next arc will reveal more about the Great Hinamizawa Mystery (tm) because this one didn't seem to reveal that much about the previous years murders apart from Shion jumping to conclusions all the time.

Spoiler:

So Shion just fell because of bad luck? No suicide? I can't say I am happy with such an outcome. And how much blood did she manage to take out of Satoko even before killing her? 100 liters? And the stupid facial distortions made any scary scene with Shion more of a laughing stock than anything that could scare me. Well, I never liked Satoko to begin with but I didn't expect the torture scene to have no emotional impact on me at all.

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by joshualimm

Have just watched episode 21... and Ouch! Poor Satoko!

Spoiler for dunno how much of this is considered spoiler, but anyway::

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm actually wondering why the wounds on Satoko looked so shallow, especially after seeing how hard Shion delivered each stab. In fact, I'd think that she could've easily taken off Satoko's arms... Also, with all the blood that was shown splattering, I find it kinda weird how Shion's white outfit wasn't even stained, or how little blood stains were actually on Satoko.

Still, it was a real ordeal seeing Shion torture Satoko. However, since I'm also re-watching School Rumble and Galaxy Angel at the moment... Satoko's voice reminded me of that giraffe (pyotr was it?) and Nomad a little too much.

I actually thought the following, but I guess I was wrong:
1. Shion had already killed Satoko before they went to Satoko's house
2. *Something* might have happened, which would've resulted in her saying "血がない" repeatedly at Keiichi (wind's translation, eps 7)... Or was she actually saying "違いない" back then, after saying that "Rika-chan's disappearance is probably Satoko's fault too"?

Amazing episode. Also, call me crazy, but I don't find the distorted faces too distracting. In fact, I'd like to think that all those weird faces reflect just how twisted the story is turning into. As more and more violence is shown, the more the characters' faces distort.

Sigh.. I've got to really start learning Japanese.

I still haven't seen the EP so I have no idea how bloody the anime portrayed it but in the Sound Novel it was extremely gruesome. I remember reading Shion pounding that knife repeatively even after Satoko's bones were showing. What moved me so much is Satoko didn't cry... deeply sadden that they left out Satoko's last words tho...

As for "血がない," that was a mistake by the WinD TL at the time. Shion was saying "違いない" as in "It has to be Satoko. There's no mistake about it, there's no mistake about it <repeats>"

I'm tempted to TL the Shion's monologues for this EP (during the confession, & K1's torture) to serve it justice since I'll already doing the doll scene in the TIP section. It might take me awhile since I have serveral other things to TL but *sigh* I need closure to this disappointment.

Anywho, moving on...
The next arc, Tsumihoroboshi Hen!!!
Rena...
And this is the arc why Keiichi becomes my favorite character ^^
かっこい～いよ！　圭ちゃん

Look forward to the return of the Bat and the Hatchet/Machete!
IMO In the Higurashi series, this could have turned out as the WORST possible scenerio for all the character to encounter.

how DEEN is going to pull this off in 5 EPs is something I don't want to think about

Forewarning: The last anime chapter Tsumihoroboshi Hen will not solve the entire mystery. The following chapter Minagoroshi Hen does which will not be animated unfortunately. [/end warning]

[BakaOnna]

Speaking of Tsumihoroboshi Hen!! Does this scene happen in the arc? Because that would be so awesome.

Spoiler:

This scene

Hee, it's my current desktop wallpaper.

[LostBlue]

Let's just say, TYPE-Moon (the creators of Fate S/N) are fans of this series

[joshualimm]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

I still haven't seen the EP so I have no idea how bloody the anime portrayed it but in the Sound Novel it was extremely gruesome. I remember reading Shion pounding that knife repeatively even after Satoko's bones were showing. What moved me so much is Satoko didn't cry... deeply sadden that they left out Satoko's last words tho...

I became a Higurashi fan from watching the anime alone. But since so many people has been mentioning other medias, may I ask:

What other Higurashi products are out there (besides posters, mugs, collectibles, etc)? The Sound Novel? The game? Where and which one should I get (know any sites that accept paypal payment?)?

I really want to find out more about the story.

[aliensporebomb]

I have a theory now.

Spoiler:

The Studio Deen animators were specifically told to leave those things out
of the story because.

Then they could:

Spoiler:

Encourage people to buy the manga, sound novels, etcetera because
people who got into the stories from the anime' will look online and find
out the full story is available from the manga/sound novels, etc.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

I have a theory now.

Spoiler:

The Studio Deen animators were specifically told to leave those things out
of the story because.

Then they could:

Spoiler:

Encourage people to buy the manga, sound novels, etcetera because
people who got into the stories from the anime' will look online and find
out the full story is available from the manga/sound novels, etc.

Spoiler:

Or, as I said, release extra stuff on DVD, as bonus.

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by joshualimm

I'm became a Higurashi fan from watching the anime alone. But since so many people has been mentioning other medias, may I ask:

What other Higurashi products are out there (besides posters, mugs, collectibles, etc)? The Sound Novel? The game? Where and which one should I get (know any sites that accept paypal payment?)?

I really want to find out more about the story.

First, Sound Novel = the Game. It's the one and the same. It's very cheap for a game in the genre. You will need to understand enough Japanese to read a newspaper comfortably for this game, however. The anime is based of this and this will have the complete answer. There will be a PS2 version of the game as well, mention one of the links I have below. The Drama CDs and Manga are also a good source for more of the story.

Check out these links for other Merchandise and where to get them:

Higurashi music discussion (OP/ED, game soundtracks, dramaCDs etc.)

Higurashi Merchandise (Figurines, Artbooks, OSTs, etc.)

Higurashi manga thread

[Rasuberi]

On that note... above. How many kanji would you say someone would know to "comfortably read a newspaper" about? Even though it'll be a much higher count than I know, I'll still be getting the games no mater what...

Since... This arc was so dissapointing. There were great parts, but overall... If they couldn't do this in six episodes, I'm extreamly worried about Tsumihoroboshi since it sounds like it would need more time than Meakashi.

Are they going to be releasing Drama CDs for all arcs? Because the Drama CDs are great.

[Fallacy]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

Speaking of Tsumihoroboshi Hen!! Does this scene happen in the arc? Because that would be so awesome.

Spoiler:

This scene

Hee, it's my current desktop wallpaper.

The exact same question in my mind. Ever since I saw that... "happy couples always smile" picture, I've been wondering if the scene is in Tsumihoroboshi-hen or... the later ones.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Let's just say, TYPE-Moon (the creators of Fate S/N) are fans of this series

But omigod! I just saw a similar senario in the manga so it has to happen at sometime during the series.

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

On that note... above. How many kanji would you say someone would know to "comfortably read a newspaper" about? Even though it'll be a much higher count than I know, I'll still be getting the games no mater what...

Since... This arc was so dissapointing. There were great parts, but overall... If they couldn't do this in six episodes, I'm extreamly worried about Tsumihoroboshi since it sounds like it would need more time than Meakashi.

Are they going to be releasing Drama CDs for all arcs? Because the Drama CDs are great.

Here, I took some sample text from the game. If you can read and understand these then you should be fine.

Spoiler for Keiichi + Shion's last phone call:

「あ、圭ちゃんですか？　私です。詩音です。」

「電話、なかなか出なかったんで、お留守かと思って切ろうとしてたんですよ。」
「あ、…あぁ、ごめん…。ちょっとその…お風呂に入っててさ。」

「…それでもご家族の方が電話を取りませんか？　ひょっとして……圭ちゃんの家、今、ご両親はお留守なんで すか？」
「いや別に…留守ってわけじゃ……、そ、そそ、そんな事より！！　聞いたか？！　梨花ちゃんと沙都子の件。 」
「いえ。…結局、あの後、どうなったんですか？　見つかったんですか？」

「…………………あぁ。…見つからなかった。」
「……圭ちゃん、どうか気を落とさないで…。」

「………………梨花ちゃんと沙都子は、………さらわれたんだよな…。」
「……はい。それは間違いないでしょうね…。」
「……………梨花ちゃんと、沙都子は、……あ、いや…ッ、えぇと……、あ、ごめん。…その………村長さんは 、…さらわれて…どうなったと思う…？　まだ……生きてるんだろうか…？」

　圭一の言い方には迷いがあった。

　沙都子と梨花が生きていると信じたくて、遠回しに聞いているのがわかった。
　………圭一も、沙都子と同じだ。

　さらわれたら身代金でも取るんじゃい限りすぐに殺すのが当り前。
　私だったら生きてるなんて夢にも思わない。

　…だけど圭一は、その恐ろしい想像をぐっとこらえ、わずかでも生きている望みに賭けようとし ていた。

　そんな目立たない心の強さが、今の私には痛いくらいによくわかる。

　…そして、その強さが、私より遥かに強いことも。

　…もう私は、鬼だから。……言い訳なんか、しない。

「殺されちゃったんだと思います。」

「………お、………おいおい、………そんなにあっさり……。」
「…人間をさらって、その状態を維持するのってとても大変なことだと思います。…人質にするんでもない限り 、用が済んだら殺しちゃうのが一番合理的じゃないかと。」

「こ、ここ、殺しちゃうって、…そんなにあっさり…。ひ、人の命を何だと思ってやがるんだ…ッ ？！？！」
「………恐ろしいことだとは思いますが。…多分、そうではないかと。」

「村長が殺されたということは…、梨花ちゃんや沙都子も……同じ様に殺されたかもしれないということなのか …？！？！　…い、…いや、…そんなはずは……、どっかのジジイとはわけが違うぞ？！梨花ちゃんだぞ？！　 沙都子だぞ？！　そ…そんなにあっさりと……殺すはずは………！」

　私の口から、殺したという直接的な言葉を聞かされても、なお圭一は抗った。
　胸の内の友人たちを殺すまいと、必死に戦った。

　……私は戦わなかった。
　あっさりと殺した。
　悟史くんを庇わなかったと詩音を責めたくせに、…私自身、悟史くんをあっさり殺していたのだ 。

「梨花ちゃんと沙都子ちゃんも、…同じだと思ったほうがいいでしょうね。」

「うわああぁああぁああぁあぁぁああぁああぁあぁああぁああああぁあああぁああぁああぁああぁあああぁああ ぁああぁあぁああぁぁああぁああぁああぁあぁああぁあああぁああぁあぁああぁああ…ッ！！！！ 」

Spoiler for Chapter 5, Epilogue A:

　ＸＸ県鹿骨市雛見沢村で、連続失踪事件が発生した。

　容疑者は、園崎魅音（１Ｘ歳）

　容疑者は６月１９日から２１日までの間に雛見沢村住民５人（園崎お魎・園崎詩音・公由喜一郎・古手梨花・ 北条沙都子）を拉致、監禁して殺害した疑い。

　事件は当初、情報不足のため初動捜査で遅れをとったが、偶然的、電撃的に解決した。

２２日午前中、園崎邸前を巡回していた警邏車両は邸内よりの悲鳴を聞き、緊急措置として邸内へ 突入。

　失踪中の容疑者の妹（園崎詩音）とクラスメート２名（前原圭一・竜宮礼奈）を保護した。

　容疑者は現場より逃走する。

　失踪者たちを殺害したと思われる園崎邸内の離れ地下奥、拷問室からは、失踪者４人（園崎お魎・公由喜一郎 ・古手梨花・北条沙都子）の毛髪、皮膚片、血液などを発見。

　拷問室内で失踪者たちが拷問を受けたものと断定した。

　ただし、その遺体は依然、発見されていない。

　監禁されていたクラスメートの証言から、監禁現場となった、園崎邸内の離れ地下にあるものと見て捜索を続 けているが、容疑者の逃亡ルート共々、発見には未だ至っていない。

　また、ほのめかしたとされる近年の連続怪死事件への関与も捜査が続けられているが、

　園崎魅音が直接、または間接的に関わったという証拠は発見されていない。

　事件の動機には今もなお不明な点が多く、また、園崎家、雛見沢村住民の極度の非協力もあり、その解明には 膨大な時間を要することが予想される。

　地域に詳しい地元警察の見解では、雛見沢村内の信仰に対する冒涜行為を巡る、内部懲罰、リンチ事件ではな いかと見ている。

　地域性に根ざした特殊な事件であることは間違いなく、県警本部は慎重な捜査を命じた。

　容疑者の妹で、もっとも監禁期間の長いと思われる失踪者（園崎詩音）から重要な手掛かりを得られるのでは ないかと期待したが、

　事件後、精神に重度の後遺症を患い、今日まで正常な事情聴取に応じられる精神状態にない。

　精神科医は、ショックによる一過性のものと診断したが、その回復の目処は今日でも立っていな い。

Spoiler for Openning for Himatsubushi Hen:

　…路地を曲がったところにワゴン車が止まっていた。
　窓が開いていて、カーラジオの音が外に漏れ出している。…ニュースか何かのようだった。

「……たため、道路交通法違反、公務執行妨害で３名を逮捕しました。一連の雛見沢ダム建設反対を巡る運動は 、先月の機動隊との流血事件を境に過激化の一途を辿っており、警察では過激な活動家による次の事件を警戒し ています。先週も、建設省庁舎前での犬飼建設大臣への直訴事件があったばかりで…、」

　犬飼建設大臣という名に、少年はぴくりと耳を動かした。

　その時、ラジオの音が漏れていた車の窓から、ひょっこりと男が顔を出した。

　車の扉を開けるときの仕草が、前後から人や車が来てないか、確かめるための仕草とは少し異な った。

　……面識のない男と突然、目が会い、少年は少し狼狽する…。

「……鶯、ＯＫ。雲雀、ＯＫ。前後２ブロック確保した。……いいぞ…！」

　助手席の男が小さく耳打ちする。
　男は頷くと扉を開け、…少年の前に立ちはだかった。

「………キミ、…犬飼寿樹くん？」

　男はそう尋ねながら少年の名札を覗き込んだ。

　…『いぬがいとしき』、名札には平仮名でそう書かれていた…。

[Rasuberi]

Hmm. Yay, I was able to read more than I thought I'd be able to. o0; I only had some trouble with the epilogue, but that's nothing a dictionary couldn't help. XD Yay, happiness.

Thanks for the samples as well, LostBlue~! I have a little comfort on understanding it now. <3

[theacefrehley]

Noteboook Page 199 (Ep. 21)

Regarding this TIP, why in the end we have:
"June XX, 1983
Sonozaki Mion"

?

Is it just Shion's madness, or we have another twins switch twist here? (well, since she use the term "Onibaba" and it is Shion's notes, so it is Shion, but...)

And about the gas disaster? It seems this time it didn't happened... Or it did?