Yondaime is Naruto

[Yoshie]

Originally Posted by Dauthi

This was always my favored theory, that the 4th is Naruto. What happened when the 4th sealed the fox is fairly sketchy. But interpretting the story still, it can be said that the 4th sealed the fox inside himself and tried to kill them both, but the fox is eternal thus complicated the jutsu. Instead of dying, the 4th reverted to a child to preserve the eternal fox.

When everyone got to the place where the yondaime should be, they found a baby, and assumed what he had done was use a baby to seal the fox. Perhaps as he is getting older and looking identical to the 4th, they are starting to have suspisions.

sounds a bit to much like Detective Conan but who know i dont think he's the 4th but i gues anythings possible ^^

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

..........Yondaime isn't in Naruto simple as that if he was wouldn't he be a genius ninja like Yondaime cuz he would tell Naruto what to do right?

Yeah but if he was then mabe hes seal deeper. or somewar els cause when naruto sees the kuubi the first time he lands in that place and it looks like a maze so if he were to go somewere els MABE he'd find the 4th.

P.S i dont think naruto is the 4th i think the 4th is seal in the fox in naruto or soming like that ...

[Suna no tate]

Seems a little far fetched... Now, for one thing, it's rather impossible that the 4th knew what was going to happen to him before hand. I'm sure he had a vague idea, but nothing specific. Still I've found the whole thing very disturbing. Before I address the topic of the thread, I want to lay some thoughts out there.

1)Look at how much trouble the 3rd had in sealing orochimaru. What makes you guys think that the 4th could just easily seal the kyubi in one fell motion? I mean, how long did it take? 2 seconds? 5 minutes? An hour? 24 hours?
2)Did he bring the baby to the battle? Presumably he did. Doesn't that seem odd?
3)How did he actually do the sealing? Sandaime had to grab his opponents with both hands. I don't see the 4th having an easy time doing this to the kyubi especially if he's carrying a baby around.

So there may be some claim that naruto and the 4th are the same person seeing as when you sit and think about the physical mechanics of sealing the kyubi with the deathgod jutsu, it seems a little farfetched that it went down exactly as we assume. Still there's that issue of the fact that the townspeople hated naruto. If he was the 4th really, why would sandaime allow him to be hated? If that was true, then the people are really hating their hero who saved them from the kyubi. Also the kyubi doesn't seem to think that naruto is the fourth at all. Seems he would be the one to know. There's also the issue of the summoning of the fourth by orochimaru and the issue of the fourths grave. I'm pretty sure he has a grave but I'm not sure if I can prove it. Anyway, if he is naruto, then the 4th has no grave... seems like something people would notice. When someone dies, typically people like to see a grave you know... anyway, just some crude thoughts...

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Seems a little far fetched... Now, for one thing, it's rather impossible that the 4th knew what was going to happen to him before hand. I'm sure he had a vague idea, but nothing specific. Still I've found the whole thing very disturbing. Before I address the topic of the thread, I want to lay some thoughts out there.

1)Look at how much trouble the 3rd had in sealing orochimaru. What makes you guys think that the 4th could just easily seal the kyubi in one fell motion? I mean, how long did it take? 2 seconds? 5 minutes? An hour? 24 hours?
2)Did he bring the baby to the battle? Presumably he did. Doesn't that seem odd?
3)How did he actually do the sealing? Sandaime had to grab his opponents with both hands. I don't see the 4th having an easy time doing this to the kyubi especially if he's carrying a baby around.

So there may be some claim that naruto and the 4th are the same person seeing as when you sit and think about the physical mechanics of sealing the kyubi with the deathgod jutsu, it seems a little farfetched that it went down exactly as we assume. Still there's that issue of the fact that the townspeople hated naruto. If he was the 4th really, why would sandaime allow him to be hated? If that was true, then the people are really hating their hero who saved them from the kyubi. Also the kyubi doesn't seem to think that naruto is the fourth at all. Seems he would be the one to know. There's also the issue of the summoning of the fourth by orochimaru and the issue of the fourths grave. I'm pretty sure he has a grave but I'm not sure if I can prove it. Anyway, if he is naruto, then the 4th has no grave... seems like something people would notice. When someone dies, typically people like to see a grave you know... anyway, just some crude thoughts...

Like i said, it may be that nobody knows exactly what happened when the 4th dashed off to seal the Kyuubi. I would think he tried to eliminate the fox for good, not seal it into a baby for future havoc. Perhaps he hoped he could, then when he tried something went wrong, or perhaps the fox did something to preserve itself.

Either way, when they got there they were only to discover a baby with a seal on it, and assumed what had happened which is the story we know. So the villagers continue to treat Naruto as they do.

Im sure they had a ceremony and the 4th has a grave even if no body was discovered.

[Airaku]

Well, from all the dialogue we have been given so far Naruto, Sandaime, and all of Konohagakure did acknowledge that Yondaime died (in one way or another) when he sealed Kyubi. So for him to be alive now means that all these people were misled into believing he died.

Also I think Naruto was born before the sealing took place so it wouldn’t make sense for Naruto and Yondaime to be the same person.

As for Shiki Fujin, whatever it was that Yondaime extracted from Kyubi mostly like couldn’t be eaten by Shinigami (the shinigami can only eat human souls) and so he had to find someplace else stick it before the jutsu ended.

Since we don’t know why Naruto doesn't have any parents, all these possibilities seem open up like maybe Yondaime is Naruto or maybe Naruto’s father. But when the time comes I don’t think we’ll be given an overcomplicate explanation of what really happened with Yondaime and Kyubi.

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Sirch

Huh? So you think Naruto is the Fourth because of his appearance and skills then you say there was no Fourth to begin with. I'm confused as to what you are trying to say.

I suppose it would be plausible that the jutsu the Fourth did to seal the Kuuybi didn't in fact kill him but instead reverted him back to an infant without his memories or knowledge. But, not likely.

Spoiler:

I believe that Kakashi did the Rasengan.. or atleast formed it in his hand when he was teaching Naruto about the wind elemental Rasengan. So, it's not some kekkei genkai jutsu that ony Jiraiya or the Fourth can do..

in the spoiler that is not the proper rasengan, his is not that powerful
also im not just saying it based purely on skills, but i think that naruto is "dumb" as you put it beause of what he went through as a child. i think there is sufficient evidence to say that he is, otherwise why would we not really know anything else about him, i mean he literally made naruto what he is. its just not justified why we dont know anything about him, i mean we know a fair bit about the other hokages. i think that the fourth was reverted back to an infant.

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think they are two separate people based on Yondaime's final words to Sandaime that he wanted Naruto to be viewed as a hero. I take it this means that Naruto was born before Yondaime died or Sandaime wouldn't know what he was talking about. However, there are two other possible explanations.

1) Yondaime somehow knew sealing the bijuu into himself would revert him into an infant with no prior memories of his past life and explained this to Sandaime before he performed the jutsu, leaving specific instructions that neither Konoha village nor his incarnation were to know the truth.

2) Sandaime found Naruto after the battle and came to the conclusion that he was the incarnation of Yondaime. However, feeling it was best that the village not know his identity, Sandaime created the story of the 4th's last words.

In any case, this means that Sandaime was aware of the truth behind Naruto's past. However, the fact that Sandaime seems to clearly think of Yondaime and Naruto as two different people and refers to Yondaime as if he's dead makes me believe that Naruto is not an incarnation. If Naruto was Yondaime's reincarnation, it seems like Sandaime would comment more on their similarities or his thoughts of Yondaime would trigger thoughts of Naruto and vice-versa. Of course, one could say the same thing if they shared a father-son relationship too. Either way, it seems the old man is the only person that for sure knew about the truth behind the Yondaime-Naruto relationship and now he's dead too. But there's still a decent chance Jiraiya knows.

if you say it liek that the 3rd treats them as 2 different people, they are technically 2 different people. a) 4th is dead in memory and b) naruto is actually a totally different person. i mean its silly to say naruto is 4th directly as they are not with memory if you understand what i mean

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Yoshie

if naruto was the 4th then noone would be so ungratefull cause everyone sees the 4th as a hero so it cant be. mabe his son or soming but deffinetly not the 4th himself.
jep i also think he's in naruto ... well sealed in him. who know mabe naruto might meet his soul someday like he can meet the kuubi ^^

yeah, all they people know that naruto contains the demon fox, i think that the 4th told the 3rd not to tell anyone, as he could be a target or something.

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Yondaime = HOT
Naruto = Hmm..So so

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

..........Yondaime isn't in Naruto simple as that if he was wouldn't he be a genius ninja like Yondaime cuz he would tell Naruto what to do right?

how can say that, where is your evidence to say that he isnt, also a GREAT ninja like Yondaime how can Kisi hide so much information about him, i think that this in itself is quite suspicious. i think he is hiding information for a later plot.
all we know for sure about the 4th is that he
=is a great ninja, possible the best
=is a student of Jirayu

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Ziv

So if Naruto is the 4th, how did he survive the sealing technique then? You can't summon the Shinigami without letting it eat your soul.

we dont know fully the jutsu, maybe there was something differnet. i mean when 3rd did it, his soul was in the demon god thingy, also Oro's would would also have been if he did get taken, but why is teh fox still in Naruto??? but then what did the Demon God take for his troubles? i dont think that it is the fourth's soul.

[Mangekyo]

Originally Posted by Sharingan88

how can say that, where is your evidence to say that he isnt, also a GREAT ninja like Yondaime how can Kisi hide so much information about him, i think that this in itself is quite suspicious. i think he is hiding information for a later plot.
all we know for sure about the 4th is that he
=is a great ninja, possible the best
=is a student of Jirayu

IMO naruto is an above average ninja but not a genius.Just because he has a almost infinate chakra supply dosen't mean he's a genius/talented.

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

IMO naruto is an above average ninja but not a genius.Just because he has a almost infinate chakra supply dosen't mean he's a genius/talented.

Yeah! the blonde kid just works hard, doesn't mean he's the bee's knees. he's worker bee. (yea i know that joke sucked) and yes it was a joke

[Sharingan88]

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

IMO naruto is an above average ninja but not a genius.Just because he has a almost infinate chakra supply dosen't mean he's a genius/talented.

i think that its due to the upbringing, i mean look at naruto, no family, no one to guide him, look at sasuke HAD a dad who taught him Kanton Jutsu, Neji, although i think that he is reall special, (learned teh whirl by himself) he no whas training from Hiashi.
Kakashi, he must have learned a thing or 2 from his Dad White Fang, Shika, his dad makes him read Ninja strategie books etc

[Mangekyo]

Originally Posted by Sharingan88

we dont know fully the jutsu, maybe there was something differnet. i mean when 3rd did it, his soul was in the demon god thingy, also Oro's would would also have been if he did get taken, but why is teh fox still in Naruto??? but then what did the Demon God take for his troubles? i dont think that it is the fourth's soul.

So then what was it???

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Originally Posted by Sharingan88

i think that its due to the upbringing, i mean look at naruto, no family, no one to guide him, look at sasuke HAD a dad who taught him Kanton Jutsu, Neji, although i think that he is reall special, (learned teh whirl by himself) he no whas training from Hiashi.
Kakashi, he must have learned a thing or 2 from his Dad White Fang, Shika, his dad makes him read Ninja strategie books etc

Are you saying that Sasuke had a easier life than Naruto?

[Mangekyo]

Originally Posted by Sharingan88

i think that its due to the upbringing, i mean look at naruto, no family, no one to guide him, look at sasuke HAD a dad who taught him Kanton Jutsu, Neji, although i think that he is reall special, (learned teh whirl by himself) he no whas training from Hiashi.
Kakashi, he must have learned a thing or 2 from his Dad White Fang, Shika, his dad makes him read Ninja strategie books etc

Which made his life a whole lot worse when Itachi wiped out his clan

Both Naruto and Sasuke's life sucked but because of what i just said Sasuke's life sucked even more.

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

Which made his life a whole lot worse when Itachi wiped out his clan

Both Naruto and Sasuke's life sucked but because of what i just said Sasuke's life sucked even more.

I'll agree with that...growing up without no family is hard...growing up and having a family and then have them all killed is a bitter pill to shallow (i'm on a roll)

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Akatsuki

I'll agree with that...growing up without no family is hard...growing up and having a family and then have them all killed is a bitter pill to shallow (i'm on a roll)

No your not!! Haha, if you ask me Sasuke's and Naruto's pain is alike, you forgot bro Naruto didn’t just grow up without a family... but he also doesn’t know who he is, his background, his heritage, his mom, dad. In other words, memories is the key word here. Sasuke at least has memories of his past, Naruto has nothing man Naruto is a blank slate. They are both equal. Lol to me, the Manga is always putting Naruto and Sasuke on par, but truth is they are just equal in the end I bet it will be the same result. Naruto will become Hokage because that’s his dream, while Sasuke will choose to be Naruto's body guard by choice because that’s his best friend.

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

No your not!! Haha, if you ask me Sasuke's and Naruto's pain is alike, you forgot bro Naruto didn’t just grow up without a family... but he also doesn’t know who he is, his background, his heritage, his mom, dad. In other words, memories is the key word here. Sasuke at least has memories of his past, Naruto has nothing man Naruto is a blank slate. They are both equal. Lol to me, the Manga is always putting Naruto and Sasuke on par, but truth is they are just equal in the end I bet it will be the same result. Naruto will become Hokage because that’s his dream, while Sasuke will choose to be Naruto's body guard by choice because that’s his best friend.

Sasuke being Naruto's bodyguard!!??Are you mad!! I can't imagine Sasuke lowering himself to that level!!! ahhhh and i'm not even gonna comment on Sasuke being equal to to to to... Naruto just reading it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Hail Sasuke.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Akatsuki

Hail Sasuke.

!!! Omg, I noticed "Hail Sasuke" in almost all your post, *shocked* are you doing the whole "Hail Hitler" thing!?!? *Runs away*