US Elections 2008

[bayoab]

Instantaneous statistics on Palin show that men like her more than women and conservatives more than the other groups.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by bayoab

In order:
Earlier this week was when the Democrats made official the Obama/Biden ticket at the Democratic National Convention. This included a bunch of meth heads getting arrested (the assassination plot) and Obama's daughter being cute after his wife's speech. (Obama had accidentally said the wrong city and she asked where he was.)
Obama then concluded that event with a speech in front of 80000 people on Thursday which was watched by 25% of America on TV alone. (This was more than any moment of the Olympics if you need a frame of reference.)

Then yesterday, McCain announced his choice for Vice President on the republican ticket of Sarah Palin. This almost completely came out of right field* and thus is the subject of the last 3 pages of posts. This will be made at the Republican National Convention which starts Monday. She is the second woman VP on a party ticket and the first on the republican party ticket.

*Okay, technically, it wasn't out of right field. People had considered it possible a long while back until the scandal broke and they all wrote her off.

<3 <3 <3
You have my thanks.

i got corrected at work today, she's mc cain's VP to be
Kinda... unexpected I wonder.
Also one dude at work described her flippantly as this:
"she's married to an eskimo (or former) who has power concerning oil and has kids called track and trig"

I didn't believe them... till i read the wiki :\
(and aside from willow and piper the other child's name is almost as tragic) :\
I wonder if this is the Reps attempt at some kinda 'modernism' stance by having a female VP....

[Phantom-Takaya]

"eskimo" denotes an Alaskan native American in a demeaning way. Kind of like calling a black man a "nigger." And it's fairly obvious her husband is white.

Oh, and remember, Wikipedia is edited by regular people in a constant rate.

[KholdStare]

I'm pretty sure someone probably said it before, but I'll say it again. McCain's "Obama is too young" argument won't work now, because of Palin. Even though the VP doesn't really do much, he, now she, would be next in line to be president if someone happens to the president. From that point of view, McCain would be contradicting himself if he makes more arguments about how Obama is inexperienced. What I'm wondering now is what else McCain has up his sleeve. Their only advantage I can see is that the RNC can do a rebuttal since their convention is after the DNC. How they will manage to reach the bar set by the DNC, I have no clue, but politics have always proved to be surprising at strange times.

[cors8]

I read somewhere that the RNC theme was supposed to be how inexperienced and unprepared Obama is for president. That's obviously not going to work now.

I'm also curious as to what they're planning now. Should be interesting.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Well it seems like Monday's events will highlight John McCain's record of service and his commitment to serving a cause greater than one's own selfinterest. So basically about his life's sacrifices he has made.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya

"eskimo" denotes an Alaskan native American in a demeaning way. Kind of like calling a black man a "nigger." And it's fairly obvious her husband is white.

Oh, and remember, Wikipedia is edited by regular people in a constant rate.

hence I said, they said it flippantly - (ie, to take with a pinch of salt) and i didn't believe them initially, until i could look up a lil about her myself.
It may be obvious to you... seeing as you're in Alaska, until today however i didn't know the woman existed, let alone the details of her family, the kids names seemed pretty far fetched, but hey guess what, it's real.
As for wiki, am well aware that any Tom, Dick and Harry can edit it to a degree, but still the kids names are tragic.
I guess it's a change from the usual, jane, mary, kate or george.
(on Obama's side it'd be like he gave his kids ghetto names if we needed a comic equivalent.)
As for that denotation, the offence can only be stemmed and felt in the US, I'm afraid since it's indigenous to over there. Upon hearing my colleague say that, all that came to mind was a person in furs near an igloo and since that's an highly unlikely case for her husband, it was dismissed instantly, we moved on, i knew they were taking the piss.

Eskimo as a word, isn't nor was created to instantly slander nor demean someone the way nigger was created with the attitudes of the whites at the time, they are actually indigenous to certain parts of the world with their own culture and language, that's all it means to me as a Brit.
Next, you'll be telling me to mention Aborigines to those in austrailia is gonna be derogatary. (knowing my luck, someone will probably tell me)

Since you are up there, i realise you are more sensitive to the PC over there, so i make a mental note of the offence in case i innocently mention something and someone gets mad.
However it'd be nice of you (if you're trying to enlighten others from other cultures that is) to toss the correct terms used in relation to the subject if someone makes a mistake rather than just simply outing them and moving on your merry way.

Pardon the mini side track, reliquishing it back to the political headlines~

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Instantaneous statistics on Palin show that men like her more than women and conservatives more than the other groups.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Women as a demographic have always leaned liberally.

I never thought for a moment that the strong female support for Hillary Clinton was inspired by the desire to see a woman in office. It just made it louder.

[Archer]

Palin is a horrible, horrible choice. It's not that she is a woman (there are far more capable women that McCain could have picked from), but rather she has VERY little to qualify her as a second to a leader of a world superpower, setting aside the typical argument that she has no experience (an argument I find relevant in this case, since the "executive experience" she had was being a mayor of a town with at most 6000 people, and then being a governor of Alaska for only 20 months).

In particular, there are three major issues that scream out "NO NO NO" in my mind.

1) John McCain had only met her once before selecting her as a vice president. ONCE. I highly doubt that McCain is such a good judge of character that he was able to immediately believe that she could handle the job in just one session with her. If you're going to have a person that'll take up your job, you might want to talk to her more than once before the decision and get to know her a bit better.

2) Palin has no idea what a VP is supposed to be doing. I'd let that one speak for itself.

3) Her knowledge in foreign policy is completely laughable. That one is somewhat evident, since she's only been in Alaska for all this time. I'm sure she made some progress in learning more about it since that interview, but this is nothing compared to the decades' worth of experience that Biden has. And in the Executive Office, where one of the President's and VP's significant tasks is to act as a representative to the country for the rest of the world, not knowing how the world works is a recipe for disaster.

When you also take into light some of the less desirable aspects of her political history (Alaska is currently looking into her abuses of power in a fiasco that some people call TrooperGate), her horribly placed position as potential VP reflects badly on McCain's campaign. He chose a running mate that would appeal to the voters (on the conservative and disillusioned women front), rather than one that would actually know how to get the job done (people like Condi Rice, who actually has experience being in the Executive Office, but the stigma of being associated with Bush would hurt his chances of election).

[cors8]

Well the old evangelical guard is already cheering her nomination as VP. Shows how much they care about the country as a whole.

There are so many more qualified women that would fit the bill that it should be embarrassing and an insult to them

[Kyuusai]

I'm finding the outrage over Palin amusing, specifically because of who is outraged. The only screaming I'm hearing is from people who absolutely wouldn't have voted Republican, anyway.

Many conservatives found the selection of Biden surprising, considering the some of the "anti-terror" legislation he's known for, but I don't know any one who never planned on voting Democrat who is also outraged because the Democrats picked a liberal. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

But oh, the screams from the sheer shock and horror that the Repubicans might tap a conservative. If you wondered how this travesty could have come to be, I'll give you a hint that will help you predict the outcome next time 'round: They're Republicans.

Originally Posted by cors8

Well the old evangelical guard is already cheering her nomination as VP. Shows how much they care about the country as a whole.

There are so many more qualified women that would fit the bill that it should be embarrassing and an insult to them

Considering that the choices for candidate almost always consists of senators and governors, if being female is a pre-requisite for the choice this time 'round, the pool of potential candidates is pretty small.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

I'm finding the outrage over Palin amusing, specifically because of who is outraged. The only screaming I'm hearing is from people who absolutely wouldn't have voted Republican, anyway.

You're absolutely right about that, and I personally find it funny too. But we can also think of it as the Democrats just got some sweet material to make fun of the Republicans, so why pass on the chance? I personally disprove of McCain's decision since I think he might have overlooked what would happen if he got removed from office. Oh well, I guess it's good to be optimistic...right?

[Phantom-Takaya]

No one will truly know (or an idea of) what kind of President she'll turn out to be just yet. Even having her as my Governor, I don't truly know if she'll do good if something terrible was to happen to McCain. But, since she's my Governor, I already have experienced what she is like in a leading position, hence why I believe that she has the qualifications to be Vice President, much less President in the possible future.

Off-topic(?) :

Originally Posted by Mystique

hence I said, they said it flippantly - (ie, to take with a pinch of salt) and i didn't believe them initially, until i could look up a lil about her myself.
It may be obvious to you... seeing as you're in Alaska, until today however i didn't know the woman existed, let alone the details of her family, the kids names seemed pretty far fetched, but hey guess what, it's real.
As for wiki, am well aware that any Tom, Dick and Harry can edit it to a degree, but still the kids names are tragic.
I guess it's a change from the usual, jane, mary, kate or george.
(on Obama's side it'd be like he gave his kids ghetto names if we needed a comic equivalent.)
As for that denotation, the offence can only be stemmed and felt in the US, I'm afraid since it's indigenous to over there. Upon hearing my colleague say that, all that came to mind was a person in furs near an igloo and since that's an highly unlikely case for her husband, it was dismissed instantly, we moved on, i knew they were taking the piss.

Eskimo as a word, isn't nor was created to instantly slander nor demean someone the way nigger was created with the attitudes of the whites at the time, they are actually indigenous to certain parts of the world with their own culture and language, that's all it means to me as a Brit.
Next, you'll be telling me to mention Aborigines to those in austrailia is gonna be derogatary. (knowing my luck, someone will probably tell me)

Since you are up there, i realise you are more sensitive to the PC over there, so i make a mental note of the offence in case i innocently mention something and someone gets mad.
However it'd be nice of you (if you're trying to enlighten others from other cultures that is) to toss the correct terms used in relation to the subject if someone makes a mistake rather than just simply outing them and moving on your merry way.

Pardon the mini side track, reliquishing it back to the political headlines~

Oh, no. I wasn't angry, nor was I truly offended. I'm Asian, so the word "eskimo" does not bother me. "Eskimo" is negatively reacted to by the native Americans in this state, so I'm simply stating that the "cheap shot" categorizing of her husband was a little off.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I personally disprove of McCain's decision since I think he might have overlooked what would happen if he got removed from office.

Considering what many conservatives think of McCain, I think he's going to coast on the votes of people who wish that would happen.

[KaniNaruto]

McCain picked Palin to pick up the women vote which would have otherwise went to Obama. By swinging some women voters away from Obama, he pretty much guarantees his inauguration. I doubt he'll lose any voters because of her inexperience because she is just the VP afterall. Obama is inexperienced but he is running for President which is a bigger problem than an inexperienced VP. I was going to vote for Hillary, but when she didn't get nominated I figured Obama. But I want to see a woman in office and possibly become president. So now I changed my mind and decided that McCain is the way to go.

[SeedFreedom]

Originally Posted by KaniNaruto

McCain picked Palin to pick up the women vote which would have otherwise went to Obama. By swinging some women voters away from Obama, he pretty much guarantees his inauguration. I doubt he'll lose any voters because of her inexperience because she is just the VP afterall. Obama is inexperienced but he is running for President which is a bigger problem than an inexperienced VP. I was going to vote for Hillary, but when she didn't get nominated I figured Obama. But I want to see a woman in office and possibly become president. So now I changed my mind and decided that McCain is the way to go.

You know, that in the event of Mccain being unable to become president, she will take over, so being a VP is a very important thing and not just some side show. Not only are you saying a first term Governor is experienced enough but Obama isnt, but your also saying you personally trust one to take over for you. Oh, and Mccain opposes equal pay for women and pro-life. Just because she is a women, doesn't mean her party supports women. If you even want to call yourself a Hillary supporter, then you cannot trample all over her ideals and pick the man who is against giving women a chance in America.

[Phantom-Takaya]

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

You know, that in the event of Mccain being unable to become president, she will take over, so being a VP is a very important thing and not just some side show. Not only are you saying a first term Governor is experienced enough but Obama isnt, but your also saying you personally trust one to take over for you.

I'm not sure why people pick on the fact that she's a first term Governor and seemingly ignore her experiences to lead before she became Governor. All I can keep saying to people who use this as an excuse to easily disprove of her is "dig deeper." She's been more than just a Governor.

[KholdStare]

SeedFreedom has a point. I don't doubt that Phantom-Takaya and other Alaskans know Palin as a good politician, but for the rest of us, we have no clue who she is. It's going to take a lot to convince the independents that Palin is worthy of her position. Like KaniNaruto said, you win some, you lose some. You might lose some thinking that Palin is inexperienced, but you might win female voters. The question is, do you win more than you lose?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya

No one will truly know (or an idea of) what kind of President she'll turn out to be just yet. Even having her as my Governor, I don't truly know if she'll do good if something terrible was to happen to McCain. But, since she's my Governor, I already have experienced what she is like in a leading position, hence why I believe that she has the qualifications to be Vice President, much less President in the possible future.

I actually have a question for you Phantom-Takaya: How does running/helping to run Alaska qualify Palin for the position of Vice-President let alone President? No offense to you or your home, but how does leading one of the least populated states in the union (and one of the least internationally visited states) equate to leading the entire nation or dealing with world affairs. Again, I am not trying to belittle your home (and I am not saying this as an Obama or McCain supporter), I simply do not know enough about the area or this person to fully grasp why you feel that Palin is a good choice based on her service in Alaska.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya

I'm not sure why people pick on the fact that she's a first term Governor and seemingly ignore her experiences to lead before she became Governor. All I can keep saying to people who use this as an excuse to easily disprove of her is "dig deeper." She's been more than just a Governor.

I'm just using using the same GOP attacks on Obama. If 8 years in the Illinois state legislature and 4 years as a US Senator is not enough experience, then a mayor of a small town and less than 2 years as Governor is definitely not enough experience.

As far as I know, she's rarely been outside of Alaska and hasn't even traveled abroad. And just for laughs, she claimed to be against the "bridge to nowhere" in her introduction when she initially supported it.

As for the majority of women voters, I hope they actually find out what she stands for and not just vote for her because she's a woman. Some women will just remain ignorant and pick her just because it's a female though.