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Justin_Brett · 2011-09-27, 17:46

Issues for characters they think they can get away with having bad things happen to. Force tries to have its cake and eat it too. And you definitely can't say it doesn't pander as much as ViVid.

Mirron · 2011-09-27, 17:58

*shrugs* It doesn't make it bad though. It's nice seeing a bit of Midchilda and Nanoha in general without fate of reality and all that. After a while, gets kind of old. Glad that Force, so far, looks to be avoiding that too, even if it's still drastic.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-27, 18:11

^ Take this to the Force thread by quote xD

Mirron · 2011-09-27, 18:19

But... it's mostly about Vivid. I was just including Force because it's also an example of less extreme stakes. It'd just suck for a while, but unlike the Cradle, I'll be surprised if they manage to pose an intergalactic threat, at least in the long run.

Keroko · 2011-09-28, 01:33

Vivid does't need to do something world changing anyway, it can do plenty with the characters. Characters changing is just as interesting to follow as a world changing.

Mirron · 2011-09-28, 01:59

Definitely agree. I think the main issue is that we're also dealing with partial translations, so it's hard to tell what, if any, character development.

00-Raiser · 2011-09-28, 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Vivid does't need to do something world changing anyway, it can do plenty with the characters. Characters changing is just as interesting to follow as a world changing.

Not saying it has to, but the point is just that Vivid lacks that extra 'umph' and people might not be as thrilled by the manga because of it.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-28, 06:40

Do you mean pain and conflict?

Keroko · 2011-09-28, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Not saying it has to, but the point is just that Vivid lacks that extra 'umph' and people might not be as thrilled by the manga because of it.

Maybe. I myself am perfectly fine with Vivid lacking a world-at-stake drama. I would rather see them create some conflict by giving the rest of the cast not named Einhart some actual goals and motivations to fight in this tournament. One of the main reasons we're so exited about the Corona/Einhart match is because we know something is at stake for Einhart, whereas for the previous fight between handcuff-girl and gang-girl... nobody really cared who'd win. Maybe at most a "well, I kinda like this character better, so it'd be nice if she wins."

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-28, 07:06

I'm agree with you.

Actually, I personally question the Einhart's own motivation. If we look at some of the previous chapter, the objective was clear that she wanted to be friends with Vivio and friends. But if we see from chapter 4, she had said she ambitious "massacred all the great leaders who endanger Belka". This is what makes me doubt her ambition. Actually, what did she do? Whether she was on a mission to find his friend and his true identity, or just run a revenge mission?

If she attempted to make friends and tried to open herself, I understand, it can be. But if she really seeks revenge, I must say that behind shyness...

Spoiler:

If the second theory I suggested really proven, then I must say that Einhart ...

Spoiler:

Maybe it sounds a bit outrageous, but hey, don't be too serious.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-28, 09:29

Einhart is receiveng a decent amount of developement. She's on the receiving end of a brutal beating at the hands of Corona but, unlike "certain other brutal beating" from Force, this one have a meaning for both characters and is guaranteed this will affect their goals and personalities.

Corona is showing why she won't be taken lightly, that her training did really pay off(with lots of interests xD). At the same time Einhart is discovering how really weak she is and how far she's from her goal, i can feel the blow on her ego during the last scans of Ch. 29. Undepently of the upcoming of the match i think Einhart will not be satisfied with the results of her training and will seek a method to become stronger, of course, Nove will be there to guide Einhart and prevent the girl from overworking herself.

00-Raiser · 2011-09-28, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hurricane

I'm agree with you.

Actually, I personally question the Einhart's own motivation. If we look at some of the previous chapter, the objective was clear that she wanted to be friends with Vivio and friends. But if we see from chapter 4, she had said she ambitious "massacred all the great leaders who endanger Belka". This is what makes me doubt her ambition. Actually, what did she do? Whether she was on a mission to find his friend and his true identity, or just run a revenge mission?

If she attempted to make friends and tried to open herself, I understand, it can be. But if she really seeks revenge, I must say that behind shyness...

Spoiler:

If the second theory I suggested really proven, then I must say that Einhart ...

Spoiler:

Maybe it sounds a bit outrageous, but hey, don't be too serious.

Well, dark ass pulls have proven to be popular *glances at Madoka*

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-28, 09:51

At least this is a good news for her. Actually, what kind of training that she receive from Nove?

If she was not satisfied with what she got, whether she should do to lead to more extreme way? From making her hands bleed until she had to take special medicines to double fold times her magic abilities?

I hope Nove could do the best as a teacher and coach. As for Ein, I hope don't force herself too much and too ambitious.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-28, 09:57

Wonder if Ein will have conflict with her new view of things and the results of this fight. She could relate her lack of strenght as the consequence of becoming "soft", being more relaxed and taken things more lightly since she started to hang out with ViVio & Co. and under Nove's care, after all, she did beat Nove which means she's under the training of someone weaker than her. Only for Nove to show her that things aren't like that and telling her to have patience to start noticing the results.

....of course, a rematch of Ein Vs. Nove would be pretty nice xD.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-28, 10:15

At least so. As long as what she did don't lead to something crazy. Even more crazy than Homura.

I myself found some similarities between Einhart with Homura from Madoka Magica. Both are equally good in terms of sports and has an attractive appearance that makes it popular among St. Hilde school. Talking about her IQ anyway, I don't know. Maybe same level as Shikamaru, perhaps

Even they share similarities about her obsession. Vivio and Madoka respectively.

But unlike Einhart, Homura develops her badassery through the journey from time to time to save the people he loved, although she not interested in what around her. I myself wanted to see if she could do the same thing as Homura.

Keroko · 2011-09-28, 10:25

Nah, Einhart has her ancestor's memory plaguing her. That's close enough already.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-28, 10:47

Yeah. If just added the aloof behavior for Einhart, maybe she twice as cool.

Mirron · 2011-09-28, 14:23

*shrugs* I think Einhart is plenty cool as it is. She seems plenty human so far, and I think they've done a good job with her so far, though more could show up in the future, hard to tell what they'll do exactly.

mechdra · 2011-09-28, 20:20

Einhart is quite good for now but using Mamiko Noto as her voice make her a little weird. It makes her a little deadpan.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-28, 20:57

She can do other voices besides that, honestly.

2011-09-27, 17:46	Link #1221
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Issues for characters they think they can get away with having bad things happen to. Force tries to have its cake and eat it too. And you definitely can't say it doesn't pander as much as ViVid. Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2011-09-27 at 18:04.

2011-09-27, 18:11	Link #1223
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ Take this to the Force thread by quote xD __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-09-28, 06:40	Link #1228
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	Do you mean pain and conflict? __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-28, 07:06	Link #1230
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	I'm agree with you. Actually, I personally question the Einhart's own motivation. If we look at some of the previous chapter, the objective was clear that she wanted to be friends with Vivio and friends. But if we see from chapter 4, she had said she ambitious "massacred all the great leaders who endanger Belka". This is what makes me doubt her ambition. Actually, what did she do? Whether she was on a mission to find his friend and his true identity, or just run a revenge mission? If she attempted to make friends and tried to open herself, I understand, it can be. But if she really seeks revenge, I must say that behind shyness... Spoiler: saved trait like saying rude, never trust anyone, even tend to like bloody violence. If the second theory I suggested really proven, then I must say that Einhart ... Spoiler: is the only character in the Nanoha series, in which the original friend, turned into enemies. Maybe it sounds a bit outrageous, but hey, don't be too serious. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-28, 09:29	Link #1231
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Einhart is receiveng a decent amount of developement. She's on the receiving end of a brutal beating at the hands of Corona but, unlike "certain other brutal beating" from Force, this one have a meaning for both characters and is guaranteed this will affect their goals and personalities. Corona is showing why she won't be taken lightly, that her training did really pay off(with lots of interests xD). At the same time Einhart is discovering how really weak she is and how far she's from her goal, i can feel the blow on her ego during the last scans of Ch. 29. Undepently of the upcoming of the match i think Einhart will not be satisfied with the results of her training and will seek a method to become stronger, of course, Nove will be there to guide Einhart and prevent the girl from overworking herself. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-09-27, 17:58	Link #1222
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	shrugs It doesn't make it bad though. It's nice seeing a bit of Midchilda and Nanoha in general without fate of reality and all that. After a while, gets kind of old. Glad that Force, so far, looks to be avoiding that too, even if it's still drastic.

2011-09-27, 18:19	Link #1224
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	But... it's mostly about Vivid. I was just including Force because it's also an example of less extreme stakes. It'd just suck for a while, but unlike the Cradle, I'll be surprised if they manage to pose an intergalactic threat, at least in the long run.

2011-09-28, 01:33	Link #1225
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Vivid does't need to do something world changing anyway, it can do plenty with the characters. Characters changing is just as interesting to follow as a world changing.

2011-09-28, 01:59	Link #1226
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	Definitely agree. I think the main issue is that we're also dealing with partial translations, so it's hard to tell what, if any, character development.

2011-09-28, 09:51	Link #1233
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	At least this is a good news for her. Actually, what kind of training that she receive from Nove? If she was not satisfied with what she got, whether she should do to lead to more extreme way? From making her hands bleed until she had to take special medicines to double fold times her magic abilities? I hope Nove could do the best as a teacher and coach. As for Ein, I hope don't force herself too much and too ambitious. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-28, 09:57	Link #1234
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Wonder if Ein will have conflict with her new view of things and the results of this fight. She could relate her lack of strenght as the consequence of becoming "soft", being more relaxed and taken things more lightly since she started to hang out with ViVio & Co. and under Nove's care, after all, she did beat Nove which means she's under the training of someone weaker than her. Only for Nove to show her that things aren't like that and telling her to have patience to start noticing the results. ....of course, a rematch of Ein Vs. Nove would be pretty nice xD. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-09-28, 10:15	Link #1235
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	At least so. As long as what she did don't lead to something crazy. Even more crazy than Homura. I myself found some similarities between Einhart with Homura from Madoka Magica. Both are equally good in terms of sports and has an attractive appearance that makes it popular among St. Hilde school. Talking about her IQ anyway, I don't know. Maybe same level as Shikamaru, perhaps Even they share similarities about her obsession. Vivio and Madoka respectively. But unlike Einhart, Homura develops her badassery through the journey from time to time to save the people he loved, although she not interested in what around her. I myself wanted to see if she could do the same thing as Homura. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-28, 10:25	Link #1236
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Nah, Einhart has her ancestor's memory plaguing her. That's close enough already.

2011-09-28, 10:47	Link #1237
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	Yeah. If just added the aloof behavior for Einhart, maybe she twice as cool. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-28, 14:23	Link #1238
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	shrugs I think Einhart is plenty cool as it is. She seems plenty human so far, and I think they've done a good job with her so far, though more could show up in the future, hard to tell what they'll do exactly.

2011-09-28, 20:20	Link #1239
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	Einhart is quite good for now but using Mamiko Noto as her voice make her a little weird. It makes her a little deadpan.

2011-09-28, 20:57	Link #1240
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	She can do other voices besides that, honestly.