2010-01-05, 21:22 | Link #6581 | |||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2010-01-05, 22:39 | Link #6582 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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The whole thing with Lelouch being secretly evil comes down to Alternate Character Interpretations. Perhaps Lelouch is just a prick, or perhaps his obsession with seeming so evil is a result of him deluding himelf rather than others in regards to his nature. Perhaps Lelouch wants to believe he is evil because otherwise, the things he does would have a measure of good in them. Perhaps for all his brilliance, Lelouch doesn't want to accept that a person like Zero is the only way the world can become a better place, so Zero "has" to be a Villain With Good Publicity. It's similar to how Suzaku believed he was seeking death in order to atone for his mistakes, when in reality it was simple escapism.
For all his declarations of evil, sinister smirks, and references to battles as 'games', Lelouch was still disgusted by what happened in Shinjuku, Saitama, Kawaguchi, Shirley's father, and Euphemia, while someone like Light wouldn't care, or be laughing hysterically. His pastime was taking over matches for people who held debts to noblemen, he tried to help the truck drivers even after they almost ran him and Rivalz over, he saved an old couple from a hussler and didn't even brag about it, he didn't keep Euphemia as a hostage or Geass her to perform any acts of sabotage, he acted to protect a hotdog vendor and then played it off and didn't even ask for free food, his is voice carried clear concern when he realized who Kallen's mother was, he ordered a retreat in Narita precisely because the battle had become "a war of attrition", he was shocked by C.C.'s asking if he planned to kill Shirley if she was the one who uncovered who he was, and still tried to save her even after everything, and regretted the trauma he caused her, he refused to Geass or assassinate Suzaku and even stopped Kallen from trying, he ordered Suzaku to "Live" rather than just save him on Shikine, at the Giant Pizza festival in the first season he said in a relieved tone "No one will die here if I make a mistake", he protected a child from being beaten by a nobleman, he decided to join the SAZ even though it would hurt his own plans, and told Rolo not to kill Suzaku after the latter helped mindrape him. A villain shrugs of collateral damage. A villain does not hunch over in a bathtub forcibly remembering the worst moments of his life to keep his resolve up, just because his not-girlfriend's father ignored a government ordered evacuation of a combat zone. Lelouch is no saint, but he isn't nearly the villain some think he is...until the last arc. Last edited by Betteroffer; 2010-01-06 at 01:48. |
2010-01-06, 02:07 | Link #6584 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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To me, even in the last arc Lelouch was still a hero, a hero with a bad publicity (that he chose himself). If he didn't go with the Zero Requiem, then Schneizel would carry out his plan, which will have more dire consequences for the world as he plan nuking large cities around the world. It was either the Zero Requiem that has little loss of life or Damocles Requiem that will have millions die to achieve world peace.
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2010-01-06, 02:15 | Link #6585 | |||||||
Zeonic
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Just because "the villain" has a crippled child sister and expresses feelings of remorse over the innocent bystander doesn't mean they're suddenly good because at the end of the day after he's put his crippled sister to bed and after he's spent his time hunched over in a tub thinking hard about what the hell he's doing, he still puts on that mask and still leads his private revolutionary army. In the case of case of Code Geass, this villain is the main character so we are blessed with a normally out of the ordinary amount of development on him as opposed to the usual version of following "the hero" and only seeing the villain when the hero sees him. How did Suzaku see Zero? How did the average Britannian see Zero after Narita? Now as far as the story is concerned he's the hero, because he's the main character and that's how stories work, but in the sense of the "universe" he is leading a violent uprising that ultimately isn't popularly supported against a government that isn't leading people into gas chambers and ovens, appears to have a damn healthy GDP, and seems to have majority popular support. |
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2010-01-06, 05:12 | Link #6586 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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stopping shnizel did not require lelouch to become and evil dictator and turn the world against him if anything, that makes it HARDER to deal with shnizel, because he has to fight the rest of the world at the same time lelouch attacked the UFN because HIS MASTER PLAN requires that he become an evil tyrant zero-requiem is lelouch's VERSION of the Ragnarok connection or the "damocles requiem" as you put it its a master plan ment to fundamentally change the world to better suite the will of the one carrying it out, at whatever cost it takes its lelouch adapting the SAME MENTALITY that he blamed the emperor and shnizel of having the "utopia justfies the means" mentality that says "i know whats best for the entire world, and so it doesn't matter how much blood i spill in order to fulfill my vision" which means, that even if shnizel WASN'T planning anything of the sort, Lelouch would STILL have gone along with his OWN plan because thats what he WANTS to do. and its even WORSE when you realize that if lelouch needed to kill millions to achieve the plan, then thats what he'd do because thats what it actually MEANS to think that "utopia justifies the means" you'd do ANYTHING it takes.
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2010-01-06, 05:35 | Link #6587 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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I know that ZQ was not about stopping Schneizel. But if ZQ is to succeed the DQ must be stopped. It's either one of those plan that will be carried out. And considering what ZQ achieved, Lulu is a "hero" to those who know what his plan trully means.
And about the "utopia justifies the means", Lulu did his plans with the least amount of blood spilled. And considering what the future will lead to without ZQ, it's a good thing that it happened.
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2010-01-06, 05:40 | Link #6588 | ||
Um-Shmum
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Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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why not simply stop shnizel, and be DONE with that ? he didn't need to do ZQ in order to stop DQ, he just needed to stop DQ by taking snhizel out Quote:
so much so that people would just FORGET all the shit that happened before, because what happened DURING lelouch's reign was just so much more horrible lelouch did NOT try to limit the blood shed, quite the other way around in fact, since lelouch WANTED to be as big a monster as possible
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2010-01-06, 05:53 | Link #6590 | ||
Um-Shmum
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lelouch rules one side of the world, and the otherside is ruled by the UFN (which he created in the first place stop shnizel, and sign a peace treaty with the UFN BANG world peace Quote:
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2010-01-06, 05:59 | Link #6591 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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world peace that still have tension? At best the world peace will be like the cold war.
What atrocities did Lulu really did? To me his "atrocities" came out really tame. Except if there are side materials that said he massacred or something then he was just bullshitting.
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2010-01-06, 06:04 | Link #6592 | ||
Um-Shmum
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Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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lelouch can do alot to defuse tensions if he wants, since he's already loved by the people of the UFN in ep 22 Quote:
people on the streets note that anyone who speaks the wrong way about him has their entire family killed. how do you think he managed to become the most hated person in history in just two months ?
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2010-01-06, 06:05 | Link #6593 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 35
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These supposed atrocities were offscreen. True, we didn't see it, but they must have been pretty fucking bad if they made Charles look like a pussycat (though it's been speculated that some of his horrible crimes may have just been rumored exaggeration by the populace).
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2010-01-06, 06:07 | Link #6594 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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2010-01-06, 06:27 | Link #6596 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
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think about it Charles started a world war that killed countless millions over the course of a decade Euphie massacred thousends of people on live TV Suzaku killed over 35 million people in ep 18 Shnizel wiped out the entire capital city of britannia (an area of about 30 miles in diameter) and lelouch is MORE HATED THEN ALL OF THEM COMBINED !!! just try to imagine how many people he would have had to slaughter to get that kind of hate placed on him (enough to completely erase the memory of all that came before it) is it unreasonable to speculate that his death toll would have had to reach the 9th digit ?
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2010-01-06, 06:32 | Link #6597 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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I think he's really damn hated because he strike when the world was about to achieve peace. After all the shit that had been done on the world, there was a glimmer of peace, but then Lulu took it away. If you see it that way, of course the world would hate his guts.
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2010-01-06, 06:35 | Link #6598 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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enough to forget EVERYTHING that came before it ?
not nearly in order to make people just completely forget all the horrible things that happened before, lelouch would have to do even WORSE. and given what happened before... you're going to need a bigger boat world war I had 37 million casualties in total on both sides suzaku almost matched that number in one night lelouch would have to get a MUCH higher death toll in order to make people forget about THAT
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2010-01-06, 06:49 | Link #6599 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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That's where you're wrong. You think to be worse, he would need to kill a lot of people. There are many other way. Putting people in concentration camp, taking people's freedom, making living condition worse. Assuming the atrocities before was just "killing" people, doing those things I said MIGHT be considered more heinous by the world. People have a tendency to think whatever happened to them now is the worst things that have happened. So because they haven't been subjected to these kinds of things, people MIGHT think he's worse then anyone else
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2010-01-06, 06:57 | Link #6600 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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he got EVERYONE to hate him more then anything else
that means people who lost loved ones to the actions of OTHER people, would still hate him more just how horrible did he have to be to get that result he'd have to turn the entire world into a giant concentration. thats a horrible thing to do for ANY reason, much less when you remember that the entire thing is completely unnecessery he rules half the world, the other half is the UFN use charles as a blame figure, and just make peace
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