Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

What I noticed in this episode:

Spoiler for Kuwadorian:

Spoiler for The house where young Beato and Virgilia appeared:

They certainly look the same.

Hm.... that seems to support my theory that Beatrice is in fact the ghost of the girl Rosa met, given witch powers by Lambdadelta. (Which means she's either lying or wrong about having lived for a thousand years, but it wouldn't be the first thing she's lied about...)

[Marion]

Rosa also visited the Kuwadorian and we saw some shots of areas that looked similar to the house little Beato was in.

Just for clarification: the start of the 3rd arc is Beato's dream of being a young girl and being taken as an apprentice under Virgilia.

[June 1983]

Nice catch with Kuwadorian. In the VN I always suspected that, but it's harder to tell, and I couldn't be sure that Ryuukishi just wasn't reusing shots of the outside of a building for both scenes.

It's interesting though, if little Beato/"Princess" that we saw with Virgilia is in fact the Beato that Rosa met, does that mean that the "grandfather" little Beato spoke about (the one who loved the vase) is in fact Kinzo? The anime cut out an interesting conversation between human/Kuwadorian Beato and Kinzo from the beginning of the EP 3 by the way, where she says "You are almost like a father to me".

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I don't think she's talking about the entire game, just about the one they are playing at that time.

If either one of them wins a game why there should be another one? If winning the game doesn't end it all, then Battler is trapped forever.

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

What I noticed in this episode:

Spoiler for Kuwadorian:

Spoiler for The house where young Beato and Virgilia appeared:

In the novel is the same. The backgrounds used for the little Beatrice scenes are part of the Kuwadorian.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Arbane the Terrible

I think it's to keep Battler focussed. He's had a hard enough time coping with witches and magic--adding time-travel to this list might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

That is not the reason...We will find later in the show why.

[Used Can]

I don't think the Beatrice we saw in Beato's dream and the one Rosa met are the same. The Beatrice Rosa met didn't seem to have the slightest idea who she was, other than she was supposed to be a witch called Beatrice. On the other hand, the little girl in Beato's dream met Beatrice (i.e. Virgilia), meaning that she received the name Beatrice as a title, and that - unlike the Beatrice Rosa met - she's aware that's not her name.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

If either one of them wins a game why there should be another one? If winning the game doesn't end it all, then Battler is trapped forever.

Ah, yes, you're right. Ange did fuck up things up, I guess.

[Arkwright]

Actually there was a reasoning given in that scene as to why she used a false name, and I was rather disappointed that they cut it because I thought it was one of the more important parts of the opening scenes in multiple ways.

Spoiler for VN version of this episode:

In the anime the only reference to this line of thought is when Beatrice says "What if she's actually another trap I've prepared?"

In the VN, it's actually Ange who brings up the topic first. Battler does wonder if she is supposed to be Ange. She responds with something along the lines of "If I told you I were, would you believe me? That's the exact thing that almost made you completely lose the last game. You mustn't trust anyone but yourself, even if they happen to kind of look like someone you know." And so on. And then Beatrice gets her line similar to the anime.

[Archon_Wing]

The first half of the episode felt somewhat sluggish and confusing with all that jumping as massive infodump comes along, though I found the part with the croissant and Battler to be pretty funny since the preview suggested he was harassing the stakes, plus he is known for being a pervert It also seems weird that Beatrice is still leaking some of her nice side occasionaly despite saying she was faking all of it, not to mention she's saying these things when Battler's not around to hear them.

Maria's pretty cute when she's not insane, though the opening having her in a witch outfit may imply otherwise. Also her toy talking to her gives pretty creepy vibes.

I laughed at the Ange smash; what was that all about? The last part was pretty good; having the blue text force use of the red one. And Kinzo actually being alive, and strong enough to hurl Krauss out the room? What? I'd rate this episode a 7 for being mildly interesting near the end.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Arbane the Terrible

I think it's to keep Battler focussed. He's had a hard enough time coping with witches and magic--adding time-travel to this list might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

True enough he's got enough on his mind here . Besides trusting someone that just showed up is what got him into trouble in the first place. Best to not bring up who she is and focus on winning this. That's all that really matters anyways. May want to open up to the brother she hasn't seen in years but can't afford to show weakness right now. Probably something she picked up after years of living with Eva.

Bernkatsel?

I did spell it right, right? Try to be careful with that kind of thing. Mostly why I stick to the easier spelling names .

Might just be a shout-out to Higurashi...or possibly, after getting tossed out of the conspiracy, he went into the family business? Or maybe it's an alternate-reality version who never joined the military....

Yeah could be anything I suppose. Might just be a "hey do you guys recognize him?" kind of thing. Of course might be connected to this in some way. Hard to trust that guy.

Originally Posted by Arkwright

Actually there was a reasoning given in that scene as to why she used a false name, and I was rather disappointed that they cut it because I thought it was one of the more important parts of the opening scenes in multiple ways.

Spoiler for VN version of this episode:

In the anime the only reference to this line of thought is when Beatrice says "What if she's actually another trap I've prepared?"

In the VN, it's actually Ange who brings up the topic first. Battler does wonder if she is supposed to be Ange. She responds with something along the lines of "If I told you I were, would you believe me? That's the exact thing that almost made you completely lose the last game. You mustn't trust anyone but yourself, even if they happen to kind of look like someone you know." And so on. And then Beatrice gets her line similar to the anime.

Too bad that was cut out. Might slip something like that in along the way though.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The first half of the episode felt somewhat sluggish and confusing with all that jumping as massive infodump comes along, though I found the part with the croissant and Battler to be pretty funny since the preview suggested he was harassing the stakes, plus he is known for being a pervert It also seems weird that Beatrice is still leaking some of her nice side occasionaly despite saying she was faking all of it, not to mention she's saying these things when Battler's not around to hear them.

Haha Battler really needs to get serious here. Fooling around with the stakes is not going to get the victory....Somewhat funny yet you'd think he would start taking this seriously. Might be losing his touch with reality considering all that's happened.

Could be the nice side leaking out. Maybe she's been in the 'nice person' act so long it's hard for her to break out of it even when Battler isn't there. Besides considering people can just pop in and out of there probably not good to fully abandon the act and get caught while laughing maniacally. Anyways nice side existing or not doesn't change the fact Battler has to take her down.

[k//eternal]

I actually felt like the reason given at the time for why she wasn't using her name was a good cut, because it's already been established that Battler is now a skeptic and that Ange has that "don't trust anything" attitude, so it adds nothing to the table. It isn't relevant to the mystery, either, since it's meta-world stuff, and the issue is revisited later.

Stuff has to be left out because of time constraints, and we've seen far worse choices.

[ChibiBear]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I did spell it right, right? Try to be careful with that kind of thing. Mostly why I stick to the easier spelling names .

Nope, you spelt it right, Bernkastel. I think that the person who posted that meant it as a pun, Bernkatsel as in Bern 'Cat' Stel.

[Used Can]

You know, I wonder if the reason behind the low DVD sales is because the anime focuses too much on the mystery. Now, don't get me wrong, Umineko is technically about a mystery, but it has other aspects too - take these threads, for example, most of the complaints I've seen have been about fans wanting to see a particular scene animated, and those scenes are not mystery-related. Also, I wonder if anime is the best medium to try to deliver a mystery like this one. I mean, the SN and manga are okay because it's easier to extend a story in those, but in an anime with 26 episodes, is it possible to do that properly? I tried to have a cousin and a friend of mine to watch Umineko, both of them watched the Higurashi anime and loved it, yet they told me they found Umineko to be quite boring.

One of the reasons why I've heard the Higurashi anime was criticised was because it seems the anime had left out most of the mystery aspects (and many other things). However, the Higurashi anime seemed to have been more focused on the plot. And, even if many people consider it a bad adaptation, I think the first DVD sold more than Umineko's (twice the number of sales, I believe).

Naturally, I may be talking bollocks, and the DVD sales will improve later. But I just felt like pointing this out.

[TheForsaken]

I think it's just Umineko doesn't have much in the beginning like Higurashi.

For example, if now I'm going to buy the DVD, I'll start with ep 8. There's no reason for me to buy the previous episodes.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

Nope, you spelt it right, Bernkastel. I think that the person who posted that meant it as a pun, Bernkatsel as in Bern 'Cat' Stel.

Ah well completely missed that. Suppose when it comes to names I try to get them right and ended up thinking "oh crap I messed up" . Feel bad for the pun since it was left behind there .

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Okay, finally have some free time for a review -_-'

Spoiler for Review:

New seiyuus:
Sakutaro - I'm not really a big fan of his voice. I think it sounds a little bit too much like Maria (I know that he actually is supposed to, but still) I wish he would have just a bit deeper voice. Well, I suppose I'll just have to get used to it.
Okonogi - ... It's good to hav you back Okonogi xD
Amakusa - His voice is good, but it's not as sexy as I imagined... So it kinda takes his smexyness away. And that's a bad thing.


Pros:
- They atually kept the croissant scene
- The restaurant scene was so sad ;_; It's going to make me cry even more when... Well, the VN readers know ^_~


Cons:
- Bleh, aoi sinjitsu is just as bad as akai.


Overall impression:
This was a very good episode. Kept me watching intense from the start to the end. The animation was very good as well, and it was smart of them to make Bern a cat. I'll give this episode an 8.

[Tjaard]

Ok, good episode, the beginning was a little boring so happy to see a fast pace on it; after new seiyuu with new chara, and yeah, happy to see Okonogi another time
This part was as usual confusing, cause meta world and game world, past and present were all pretty mixed, but the funniest part probably was see Beelzebub and Battler over the breakfast xDD
Probably what I was more interested after this epi was thinking to Battler preparing for the breakfast and Ronove cooking

[Vega Lyra]

The restaurant scene was so sad and happy. Maria's "Uu" was also much more softer and cheery. D'AWWWWWWWWWW

I'm liking Ange's voice actress. In my opinion, her voice suits her.

I'm glad that DEEN took out a lot of the scenes that would keep the viewers from holding their heads with their elbow on the table (or their knee). It was a very light episode, a relatively cheery and interesting one since you could look at the story from another perspective.

[Pixelation]

I usually just watch as a story plays out, but with Umineko I really have been actively thinking about how to solve things from Battler's perspective. That said, I'd never even considered the possibility that...

Spoiler for this anime episode...:

Kinzo might have been dead before this whole fiasco started. Or more specifically that the 18 people might not be the 18 that seem to be accounted for. It's yet to seen if this is truth or a red herring, but nice twist nonetheless. =)

The win condition that come along with the Blue text is pretty significant. While it lets him force an response, he basicly HAS to have an answer for EVERYTHING presented now or he loses. Before he just had to not believe and maintain the desire to keep playing.

Considering his track record and the audio-visual-information-spam he has to sift through, I'd be very worried about going down for the count this round. ^^'

The Higurashi references have been popping up for awhile now, so sure, why not Okonagi and Shion's boarding school (the later I didn't catch myself btw)? I remain curious if this is just a throwback for the fans of Higurasgi or if the connection is part of the actual plot.

Also:

Spoiler for wild speculation with Higurashi spoilers:

The witch that was Beato's teacher (who's name escapes me atm) kind reminds me Nomura from Higurashi (a driving force behind Takano who I don't know much about as she had very little screentime in the anime...). The lack of info on that character in the anime leaves me with all sorts of questions ?.?

[-Sho-]

Another round . With Gretel (Ange) .
So in the end the magic exist and witch too except if all was someone's dream .
Because all are dead in the island except Aunt Eva . And Ange want to discover what happened , Berneskatel appeared and gave her witch's magic . Just its Battler who deny the magic .
I thought that it'll be something else , well , it can't be helped .

So its the last arc ? 5 episodes to go .

[Ithekro]

7 episodes it is expected. 26 for the season. And this is only the last question arc. There are more arcs...just they'd be for another season...when they are finished in a year or so.