2009-09-29, 17:58 | Link #2181 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-29, 18:05 | Link #2182 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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His condemning most of humanity to Hell in the first place isn't selling his benevolence to me, though.
And as for what happens in this life - we, as limited beings, must make compromises. Trade offs. That's why suffering now for a benefit later makes sense. That's why we have to decide the relative importance of things and make choices. God, though, isn't supposed to be limited. Therefore, our suffering is also something he decided just because he felt like it. |
2009-09-29, 19:13 | Link #2183 | |
Member of DOLLARS
Artist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 28
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@Vexx I'm pentecostal
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2009-09-29, 19:19 | Link #2185 | |
12th Supernova
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Foxy arc
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Atheist.
I just believe I shouldn't read a huge book, pray everyday, and sing songs about some entity that I have no proof exists. And I've been too lazy to try any other religion, but if i had to try one, it'd be Buddhism. Quote:
When god created the angels, he told them all they could have free will and that he wouldn't kill/destroy them. And when angels turned evil, God couldn't break his own rule, so he placed them in Hell. |
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2009-09-29, 21:07 | Link #2187 | |
It's the year 3030...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spaceport Colony Sicilia
Age: 39
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In the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth. He filled Heaven with angels; beings he could use to help him oversee the goings on of Earth, and basically do things he needed done. Angels were not given free will. Instead, they were bound to God's will. Those who defied God's will (Lucifer may be the most recognizable), were banished from Gods realm. Certainly Satan was not the only one, but he is obviously the most prominent. On Earth, God created man, in God's image. God gave man freewill, but set rules in place to keep man in check. God also created woman, under the same pretenses. From here, it's just the basic "Garden of Eden" story. If you're not completely clear on it, read the Book of Genesis. Anyway, how I interpret all this being relative is as such. God is omnipotent, but only outside of the points where freewill must intervene. Example: You are faced with a decision to go left or right down a path. God put you at that crossroads. He knows what will happen if you choose the right path, and he knows what will happen if you choose the left path. What he does not know is what path you will choose, for that is outside the realm of his omniscience, because it lies within the realm of the freewill of man. If someone has a greater understanding about this subject, feel free to interject. As I said, my knowledge about this subject is not so vast for me to assume I am correct. This is simply what I was taught when I was still being dragged to church by my parents.
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2009-09-29, 21:43 | Link #2188 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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2009-09-29, 21:48 | Link #2189 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I had 7th-Day Adventists catch me at my door today..... they always ask me about my faith, and it never fails to leave them a bit disoriented. Almost all of their playbook seems to assume some other Christian sect or passive belief in the Bible. Questioning the book itself or having someone quote similar passages from Buddhist, Hindu, or other belief texts is not something they're usually trained for. But I'm nice and friendly and let them leave their interesting little pamphlets.
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2009-09-29, 22:02 | Link #2190 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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2009-09-29, 22:09 | Link #2191 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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In comparison, Muslims aren't considered what they are unless they practice. We really have to submit to God and his teachings. |
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2009-09-29, 22:38 | Link #2192 | |||||
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There is another example. You go to a restaurant that you've always gone to everyday since you can remember. And since you've always gone there and ordered the same thing, you never had to look at the menu to be able to choose another food (or maybe they don't even have the menu, or it's an out-of-the-menu/secret food, etc.). This is probably the type of "rejection" that most people would have a problem with. Since the alternative is never directly presented to them, they would automatically pick whatever they've known their entire lives. In doing so, they indirectly reject the alternative. Quote:
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To use your example: - God puts you at the crossroad (controlling) - knows the consequence of choosing either path (knowing) - knows the path that you will choose (knowing) - lets you make that choice (and the consequence of that choice) on your own anyway (ability to control, but not controlling) And in some cases: - God will give you a hint at which path to take or will tell you the consequence of either or both paths (interacting) - or lets you make the choice but changes the consequence (controlling) - or force you to pick the path of his choosing (controlling) In all of that, neither God's omnipotence nor his omniscience is diminished by human free will. |
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2009-09-29, 23:10 | Link #2193 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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My point exactly. Passive Christians are those content enough with the "believing" aspect of their religion and forget the "doing" aspect, considering that Christianity is the synthesis of what you believe and what you do.
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2009-09-30, 01:00 | Link #2194 | |||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-30, 01:03 | Link #2195 | |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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And I dunno about my life's philosophy being like a restaurant menu. I mean, that seems kinda arbitrary. And give me a reason to choose something else off the menu. Because this is the foundation of my worldview that we're talking about here, not a restaurant dish, so you'd better have something convincing. Couldn't you say the same about yourself? Are you not too rejecting everything else on the menu except your usual? I suppose I don't like being told that I "reject" God because to me God was never a default. I don't believe God exists, and I can't reject something that (from my perspective) doesn't exist.
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2009-09-30, 01:30 | Link #2196 | ||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Christianity has been around a much longer period (and Judaism even longer)... societies may have "christian" history, underpinning, etc. but it doesn't mean that many people who consider themselves Christian actively think about it much. That goes for Europe, Canada, and even the US amongst other places. Quote:
I really don't want to screw with them -- if their odd little version of Christianity makes them happy and doesn't "scare the cattle" I'm fine. But the harder they press me, the more likely I'm going to have to point out the analysis that led me to where I'm at. And that's likely to scare or appall them. FYI, the Adventists aren't considered particularly mainstream within Christianity but if anyone is interested, they're easy enough to wiki/google.
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2009-09-30, 01:34 | Link #2197 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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But I guess your right, It might differ depending on perception---though, I do *believe* that mine is "correct". Quote:
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2009-09-30, 01:55 | Link #2198 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-30, 01:57 | Link #2199 | |
It's the year 3030...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spaceport Colony Sicilia
Age: 39
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For me, if the answer to the last question is "No", then we have crossed out of the realm of freewill, and into the realm of absolute control. Freewill is defined as "the power asserted of moral beings of choosing within limitations or with respect to some matters without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law." My interpretation of this is that freewill is the ability for man to make a decision outside of the influence of the "divine" or, outside of Gods influence. If God knows the decision we are going to make, and we cannot make a decision outside of his knowledge, then we are not really making a decision at all. I equate it to someone asking me if I'd like a Coke or a Pepsi and, when I say Pepsi, they say "Well, we only have Coke." If the decision we're going to make is already known then, to me, we aren't making a decision anymore; it is being made for us. I didn't get that from his statement. I think it's more along the idea of atheism does not have a negative affect, but does not have as much of a positive affect as religion. As a numerical example: Atheism is 3, Religion is 8. They're still both positive, but Atheism is not as large a positive as Religion.
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2009-09-30, 01:59 | Link #2200 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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For that matter, who's deciding who has "submitted"?
There's more than a few well-studied "wise men" in Islam who come to very different opinions on various subjects and on interpretations of the Qu'ran (and even attempt to wipe each other out over it and call each other heretics). If this were left to each individual and their own personal relationship with Allah - it'd be one thing, but there seems to be a lot of "judging" each other going on
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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