2011-07-21, 22:46 | Link #23321 | |||
The True Culprit
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2011-07-21, 22:50 | Link #23322 | |
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"I made up a rule I'm now going to intentionally break while lying about the very premise of my rule" is special stupid, like Special Education.
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2011-07-22, 15:04 | Link #23327 | |
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If you decide to only count living bodies, it makes 16 people right ? But it seems (I can be mistaken), that most people that count personalities are referring to "Shannon" and Kanon" as 2 people. However, what about Beatrice ? Isn't she a proper personality too ? It would make 18 then. (Also, I'm just asking) |
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2011-07-22, 15:18 | Link #23328 | ||
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But you're right, the idea is the same.Only on game boards, as red text doesn't apply to Rokkenjima-Prime. Assuming Kinzo was dead, Erika didn't survive or wasn't real, and only Yasu exists, there would have been 16 people on Rokkenjima in 1986, yes. On game boards or in stories there are as many people as the author says there are. Quote:
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2011-07-22, 16:33 | Link #23329 | ||
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The loophole for Beatrice could be she's a witch, and therefore, the author doesn't consider her a person.
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My point is, depending on the reason why Battler was absent in the conference in Lion's world, we may get some hints. I'm not confusing Ikuko with Tōya. I'm going by the names we went by in EP6. Anyhow, my point is, in Meta-terms, Hachijō To#333;ya/Featherine is above BATTLER. If Featherine had no authority, how was she able to allow Bern to host a game? In EP5, Lambda was able to do it, because Beato was still alive and she was taking her place. But after EP5, Battler became the territory lord, and yet, Featherine was still able to have enough authority to allow Bern host a game, which Battler had no idea about. Also, remember the game in EP7 was Featherine's idea. Bern was just looking for Lambda when she ended up at Featherine's studio at the end of EP6.
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2011-07-22, 16:44 | Link #23330 | |
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As an example that's less contentious, consider if Erika were wholly fictional (her portrayal may as well be). Erika can be a "person" counted on a game board if the author/game master of that particular one wishes for her to be. However, they could just as easily declare that, like Beatrice or Dlanor or whoever else isn't, Erika's not to be counted as a person. Even if she is. It's fiat. It makes narrative sense why Beatrice might cast a "human Beato" on the island and not raise the person count (she's metaphorically hinting at her true nature), but there's no actual hard and fast rule to it. Trying to fall all over yourself to explain it just winds up being stupid. The count is based on whoever is considered a person. Ronove is not a person, Genji is. Beatrice isn't a person, Kanon is. Dlanor isn't a person, Erika is. Sometimes Kinzo is a person, most times he isn't. Oh well.
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2011-07-22, 18:30 | Link #23332 | |||
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Does Featherine have authority to allow games, or does Bern have the authority to write one in the same manner anyone can write a fanfiction? BATTLER has no awareness for the same reason the Author doesn't know about your shitty fanfic. Quote:
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2011-07-22, 21:44 | Link #23333 | |
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# Furudo Erika had no influence on any of Beato's games before now. # She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them. # Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. # Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games. So ... yeah. |
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2011-07-22, 22:59 | Link #23334 | ||||
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Honestly, my sole point here is that there are a variety of reasons Battler could have been absent in EP7. And depending on some of those reasons, we may be getting some hints. Basically, I'm saying that whilst Battler showed up in Rokkenjima in all the normal games, he didn't show up in EP7's, and that one happens to be the one in which Yasu doesn't exist. So, there could be something suspicious there. Now, if you want to think it's just a coincidence and that Battler just happened to miss that conference for reasons completely unrelated the mystery, that's cool. All I wanted to point out is that there may be a hint there. Quote:
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Also, regarding the topic of fanfictions and authors have nothing to do with them, doesn't that defeat your argument about Bern being wary about BATTLER screwing up her story? I mean, just like an author can do nothing about how someone writes a fanfic, by what you've said, BATTLER should be unable to do anything about how Bern wrote her story. So, no possession of pieces and whatnot. Also, I don't really think BATTLER minds heartless stories. He was more than okay with Bern's story in EP8. He also rolled around with the story with that psycho Battler in the latest TIP. Precisely my point. We know the Beatrice Battler met in EP4 - and quite likely the one Rosa and Kyrie met in EP2 was Yasu. There's no real Beatrice - real as in terms of looks, part of her personality and the whole deal about being the family alchemist and even less a witch. In the end, what we got was someone personifying Beatrice. So, if Erika is a non-person, just as with Beatrice, someone should be personifying her, instead of her being an actual person with her own body. Quote:
So, I think this way it can be explained why Shannon and Kanon can show up as people and add to the head-count (or well, at least one of them, since there's the chance one of those may be Yasu's servant name, and thus a real person). Well, this is basically what Renall pointed out before, but I think the distinction between human and non-person is important, since this would explain why Shannon and Kanon add to the count, and Beatrice doesn't.
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2011-07-22, 23:12 | Link #23335 | ||||||
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And since EP6's 1998 is clearly not real due to being an 'impossible memory', Toya probably wrote it, putting BATTLER above Featherine by technicality. Nener nener. Quote:
Featherine asks her to do a game, but Bern doesn't need her permission. Quote:
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2011-07-23, 00:40 | Link #23336 | ||||||||
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Thinking about it, the whole deal about humans and non-persons went too above my head, since Shannon and Kanon, just as Beatrice are quite likely played by Yasu.
So, taking back the last couple of paragraphs in the previous post, I think it'd be easier to say that there are characters like Shannon, Kanon and Erika who add up to the head count, because they are supposed to be human, as opposed to Beatrice who is supposed to be a witch. Quote:
We can find thousands of reason why his absence was unrelated to the mystery, and all of them could be wrong. I really don't see why we're discussing about this point to be honest, since both points are equally valid. Quote:
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I think this makes sense considering Hachijō Tōya != Ushiromiya Battler. So, BATTLER could be there to represent his past self and Featherine to represent his current self. And well, the one writing the story is Tōya and not Battler. Quote:
It also makes sense. How could you be a GM for Beato's game when you've got no idea how it works and even less its solution? Quote:
And this is just assuming she said she wasn't the GM during the Tea Party simply to screw with Ange - which she admitted in EP8, but that could have been a lie. Quote:
Had Bern been able to do it before, don't you think she'd have done it? It'd have given her the perfect chance to screw with Battler in EP6. Quote:
Also, in terms of Copyright, that cannot go, since the first two novels were not done by him and the story is based on real events and real people. So, that's a big nope. Quote:
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2011-07-23, 00:51 | Link #23337 | ||||||||
The True Culprit
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2011-07-23, 11:34 | Link #23338 | ||||||||
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I bring Battler's absence to notice, due personal suspicion about Kyrie and Rudolph who could have been involved in this case from even before, rather than just being mere opportunists. If they were somehow involved with Yasu from before, Battler's absence in Lion's world could be a small hint, because Lion has no deep feelings for Battler, whereas in Yasu's worlds, Rudolph and Kyrie went an extra mile to persuade Battler in forgiving them. There's Rudolph telling Battler he had something to say to him in EP1 (which was written by Yasu before 1986's conference took place), EP7's Tea Party, Bern's game in EP8 and Ange's reaction to Eva's diary which lead me to think there may be something going on here. There's also Battler and Yasu/Beato being able to leave in a boat (but this could be explained by saying Kinzo gave the boats some maintenance, or that the boat simply happened to work and Yasu knew it) and they had gold with them. Just as you've said, I may be over-analysing here and I could be completely wrong in my assumptions, but all the same, I think it's valid. Quote:
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"Too bad, Erika. .........Just when you were finally appointed as the territory lord of this Fragment, you've been deprived of that title." On the other hand, by re-reading EP5 I've noticed that GMs and TLs have to be appointed, and both Erika and Battler were appointed as such after they had defended their respective truths. Battler showed his knowledge of THE TRUTH by making use of the Golden Truth, I think. Quote:
If we believe her when she said she wasn't the Game Master in the Tea Party, then that adds up to it. Quote:
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Of course, unlike Erika, Battler knew THE TRUTH. So, in terms of knowledge, he's more authoritative than Erika as a TL. However, if someone else proves equal knowledge as Battler, then there's little he can do if the other party wants to disclose the truth instead of keeping it sealed. Quote:
Moreover, in EP7, it had been constantly repeated that Battler had been too late in arriving the truth and that's why Clair was in that state and it was Will who had to put her to sleep. So, I really think EP7's board was special in that sense, and I don't think BATTLER could have done anything about it.
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2011-07-23, 13:36 | Link #23339 | |||||||||||
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Regardless, I felt that Clair was a phantom of the Beatrice that died at the end of EP5. A lingering regret that needed to be resolved. Even if BATTLER did show up, he couldn't help her because it's not the Battler she knew in her lifetime.
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