The Industry - Lifestyle and Wages

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Benio

The key here is that how do you get people who don't normally watch anime to give it a try. Convenience is one important factor, I believe. If it requires even the slightest effort beyond what they normally do, it's probably not gonna happen. That's why I think dedicated channels airing different kinds of anime at various time slots should have some impact. And if the one they try happens to be the one they like, I believe they'll likely want to watch more. Reruns after a series has finished or aired for a while should also help. If you hear people talk about it and you’re kind of interested but you can't watch it from the beginning, you’ll probably just give up.

I doubt it is possible, in the current stat of Japan, for non Otakus/kids to watch anime. The sterotype and generalization of that title (Otaku) is enough to scare off practically everyone who isnt an Otaku yet.

Would you, as a completely regular member of society, go and get yourself to try watching an anime, when the title of Otaku is practically given to you the moment you are seen watching one (even among family members), to be followed by the label of, "lolicon, child rapist, loner, loser, mentally unstable, never get laid, scum of society"?

kj1980 mentioned in another thread, that there was a person who once taught as a teacher in a university (or some rather large education insitute). The moment he proclaimed his "Otaku status", he lost his job, and ended up in some tuition centre to continue his teaching job.

Granted, I've heard on how the situation with being an Otaku is somewhat improving, making it somewhat "ok" to watch anime as a casual viewer. The accuracy of this rumor can only be confirm by someone who is actually living in Japan.

In any case, I dont see why there is a need to get "more people to watch animes", besides trying to improve the image of Otakus in general. If people prefer their j-dramas and j-pop concerts, leave them be.

[Solace]

the general conception is that anime is for kids. And teens and grown-ups who don't watch anime will not all of a sudden start watching it.

I disagree with this, somewhat. I think people are wise enough (with the exception of people who are just too stubborn in thier views), to recognize a good program when they see it. Movies like Spirited Away don't win awards if people aren't watching them. I'm not so nieve as to think that anime is all of a sudden popular, but I do think that the stigma that people have against using animation to tell a mature story is wavering. In America, Disney and Warner Bros have hammered home the animation is for kids and family message for decades. But when the 80's came around, cartoons progressed beyond just having anvils dropped on toon heads. Thundercats, He-man, Transformers, Robotech, and more all had progressing storylines, and ideas behind them besides just good guy/bad guy/fight. Now I'm not suggesting that any of them were epic stories that transcend generations, I do think they started a chain of events that helped people understand that animation could be used for telling stories just like any other medium. As we've progressed from the 80's, so has the complexity of many of the animations since. So has the popularity. It can't be coincidence, can it?

People watch anything when it is deemed acceptable by enough of the population. In Japan, I know that otaku scares many people because of the murder case that spurred the stigma. In many other countries, including America, that stigma doesn't exist. Signs are that the otaku stigma is starting to waver, just like the geek/nerd stigma in America. The growing popularity of anime and anime styled/themed programs shows that there is a pretty large audience who is willing to watch a show where animation is the medium of storytelling. Anime shows me that there are a large variety of stories to tell, across many genres. This is what helps make it so appealing, besides the stylized art, of course. It may take many more decades to see a mature animated show on prime time television, but I do think that it is heading that way, slowly.

[Benio]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

In any case, I dont see why there is a need to get "more people to watch animes", besides trying to improve the image of Otakus in general. If people prefer their j-dramas and j-pop concerts, leave them be.

More anime viewers = more potential buyers -> more buyers -> more revenue
More revenue -> more good anime & hopefully better pay for animators, seiyuus, etc.
More buyers -> lower DVD prices -> more buyers -> more revenue

If the market is bigger, theoretically everyone should be better off.

[Disembodied Voice]

Originally Posted by Benio

More anime viewers = more potential buyers -> more buyers -> more revenue
More revenue -> more good anime & hopefully better pay for animators, seiyuus, etc.
More buyers -> lower DVD prices -> more buyers -> more revenue

If the market is bigger, theoretically everyone should be better off.

Not entirely. I would still say that in N. America, more viewers would still prefer to watch via broadcast or other means before dropping a few bills on a DVD. I don't see the market getting any bigger on an international scale as I think it's reached its peak for this generation and maybe future generations, since it's no longer seen as much a novelty and more along the lines of niche fandom aside comics and sci-fi. As far as Japan goes, lowering DVD prices seems laughable.

Oh, and about the 50 new shows issue... I have the semi-official count at 67 just for this April (including OVAs and sequel series). Can you say...KABOOM? I'm guessing .com's 2001 will be 2008 for the anime industry?

[Eclipze]

Well, just earlier on, I was having a discussion with a friend regarding the music aspect of anime.

My friend's point of view was that, most of the music/songs in anime is composed and sung by A-list j-pop idols/composers. He presented the following as his supporting "evidence":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

While I understand that wiki isn't the best source for accurate information, I do believe that it *should* hold fair amounts of truth.

Particularly:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia, English

Music

Much like western live-action cinema, anime uses music as an important artistic tool. Anime soundtracks are big business in Japan, and are often times met with similar demand as chart topping pop albums. It is for this reason that anime music is often composed and performed by 'A-list' musicians, stars, and composers. Skilled BGM composers are highly respected in the anime fan community. Anime series with opening credits use the opening theme song as a quick introduction to the show. The most frequent use of music in Anime is background music or BGM. BGM is used to set the tone of a given scene, for example Neon Genesis Evangelion 's "Decisive Battle" is played when the characters are making battle preparations and it features heavy drum beats and a militaristic style which highlights the tension of the scene and hints at the action to follow.

The theme song (also referred to as the Opening song or abbreviated as OP) usually matches the overall tone of the show, and serves to get the viewer excited about the upcoming program. Insert songs and ending songs (abbr. ED) often make commentary about the plot or the program as a whole, and are often times used to highlight a particularly important scene. Opening and ending themes, as well as insert songs, are frequently performed by popular musicians or Japanese idols, so in this way, songs become a very important component of an anime program. In addition to the themes, the seiyū for a specific anime also frequently releases CD for their character, called Image Albums. Despite the word "image" in the CD's name, it only contains music and/or "voice messages" (where the seiyū talks with the audience or about herself), making the listener think that the character him/herself is singing. Another type of Anime CDs release are Drama CD, featuring songs and tracks which makes use of the seiyū to tell a story, often not included in the main anime.

Note the bolded parts.

In addition, my friend says that composers, in general (at least), are paid very well (his estimation was like, 1-5k per song composed).

Because I find it difficult to believe that a song like those in, for example, Kage Kara Mamoru would be done by a famous composer (Banana song, the rather lovey dovey OP, etc). And I definately find it hard to believe the singers of the 2 mentioned songs would be a famous one, especially for an Otaku hour anime...

Questions:
1) Are the song/music composers paid well?
2) How true is it that j-pop stars sing/compose for anime at a often rate? (My friend used Inuyasha as an example, as both BoA and Ayumi Hamazaki did about 2-3 songs for that anime).
3) How well are CG animators paid? (My friend claims it to be high...)

Thanks in advance.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Well, just earlier on, I was having a discussion with a friend regarding the music aspect of anime.

My friend's point of view was that, most of the music/songs in anime is composed and sung by A-list j-pop idols/composers. He presented the following as his supporting "evidence":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

While I understand that wiki isn't the best source for accurate information, I do believe that it *should* hold fair amounts of truth.

Particularly:

Note the bolded parts.

In addition, my friend says that composers, in general (at least), are paid very well (his estimation was like, 1-5k per song composed).

Because I find it difficult to believe that a song like those in, for example, Kage Kara Mamoru would be done by a famous composer (Banana song, the rather lovey dovey OP, etc). And I definately find it hard to believe the singers of the 2 mentioned songs would be a famous one, especially for an Otaku hour anime...

Questions:
1) Are the song/music composers paid well?
2) How true is it that j-pop stars sing/compose for anime at a often rate? (My friend used Inuyasha as an example, as both BoA and Ayumi Hamazaki did about 2-3 songs for that anime).
3) How well are CG animators paid? (My friend claims it to be high...)

Thanks in advance.

Dude, ask the master or better yet read one of his posts.

Here, this one will help:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...9&postcount=48

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Guido

Dude, ask the master or better yet read one of his posts.

Here, this one will help:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...9&postcount=48

Haha, thanks Guido. Yes, I've read through that thread before (real eye opener), but I seemed to have forgotten about that particular post already.

And me posting this question in this thread IS indirectly asking TEH master the question. I dont think doing a PM is needed since it would somewhat be disturbing his privacy, and the information I ask for would benefit the curious minded.

That is a useful post, but it doesn't exactly answer 2 of the questions I've posted. (1 and 3)

[DaFool]

Obviously that wiki is incorrect.

Personally, I'd prefer Kotoko over Ayumi Hamasaki

It's a bit humbling to realize that the likes of Yoko Kanno, Hikaru Nanase, Yuki Kajiura and that guy who composed for Juuni Kokki and Emma are second-rate artists. Well at least Kenji Kawaii is not averse to doing anime.

Well in anycase, too bad for the Inuyasha / Bleach / popular animes, as they don't get the Warsaw Philharmonic to do their score--well, maybe for the movies. That's why I always go for hardcore otaku / late-hour anime.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Questions:
1) Are the song/music composers paid well?
2) How true is it that j-pop stars sing/compose for anime at a often rate? (My friend used Inuyasha as an example, as both BoA and Ayumi Hamazaki did about 2-3 songs for that anime).
3) How well are CG animators paid? (My friend claims it to be high...)

1. Since they write their own music, royalties can be great. Think of it this way: if your song is popular enough, your song is going to be published into karaoke. There's several hundred thousand yen in royalties from for that one song. Mobile phone ringtones? You get another royalty benefit from there as well. Simply put: if you have musical talent to write your own music composition and lyrics (note the difference between just lending your voice), the kickbacks that you get are enormous. It beats slaving yourself 40+ hours a week in a corporate environment, doesn't it? But then again, you have to prove yourself worthy to become popular, so it's a risky business.

2. Extremely likely if it is a prime-time anime like NARUTO, but highly unlikely if it is a late night program which the majority of anime are shown. Big name artists tied to major record labels wants to grab a larger audience - shows that air in prime time. They are not going to confine themselves to an anime that only hard-core otakus are going to watch.

3. Not as much as CG animators working at Pixar. I would say modestly at best. We have dozens of anime schools. There is practically an abundance of CG animators here in Japan. So much like any first world capitalist society, you need to stand out to keep your job. If you "just good," you can be easily be replaced by a younger person who is willing to take up the job for much lower pay than you. Or, they can just be outsourced to Taiwan or South Korea where it's even more cheaper.

[Eclipze]

Thanks kj1980.

1 more question:
Regarding the wiki part I've quoted...it only applies, as you said, to primetime slotted animes, correct?

If so, then the wiki isn't "100% true", and is to be taken with a grain of salt, unlike the way DaFool agrees with it. Not to mention that primetime slot animes aren't exactly a vast majority of the animes...

[Sun_Tze]

Ok... a question for the Japan-living members.

Is it true that japanese publishing houses (Akita Shoten, Shogakukan, Shueisha) can be quite... demanding with foreign publishing companies?


I'm asking this because we had a few troubles with the printing prices of our manga releases, and had to raise the final price of them. Akita Shoten went ballistic and demanded we sent a guy over there to make a new contract.

[eggplant]

Originally Posted by Sun_Tze

Ok... a question for the Japan-living members.

Is it true that japanese publishing houses (Akita Shoten, Shogakukan, Shueisha) can be quite... demanding with foreign publishing companies?


I'm asking this because we had a few troubles with the printing prices of our manga releases, and had to raise the final price of them. Akita Shoten went ballistic and demanded we sent a guy over there to make a new contract.

Since the publishing houses are usually the owners to the title rights of specific property, it is normal for them to take initiative over licensing agreements, including pricing related bargaining matters.

It would be standard practice to stipulate such agreements in writing, whether it be in the body of the contract (agreement) or as an addendum.

In many cases, an agreed (preferred) list price of the final product is determined subsequently to negotiation between the involved parties (licensor and licensee), and delineated in the agreement.

However, Japanese publishing companies (licensors) usually have no legal control of the other parties' (licencees) retail cover pricing of the said property (manga/tankoubon), as it may violate Fair Trade/Anititrust laws.

If in your case, the publishing houses are complaining about the cover price being too low, they would probably only have a case if the pricing is deemed to be an act of dumping (predatory pricing), which I doubt, since most agreements of the like are of exculsive/proprietary nature.

If the complaint towards you is of a price comparative perspective between the corresponding territories (countries), I construe that they have no case, do to the following reasons:

1. Pursuant to the aforementioned comments, this is of a nature which, by standard business practices, must be addressed during the negotiation stages and stipulated in the contract/agreement, whether it is by an addendum or by other means. Of course in your case, this could pertain to such stages, wherein renegotiations may be viable, but surely cannot preclude the justification of your decisions.

2. Localization of the property is inclusive of the economic conditions of the corresponding territory(ies), wherein direct application of the exchange rate of the said property would not be feasible. In other words, even if the retail price (conversion rate) of the final product is substantially lower than its equivalent in Japan, it does not mean that it will tarnish the image. R1 DVDs, which are bargain deals compared to the R2 originals, are living proof of that.

3. In the same way as a manufacturer cannot designate wholesale/retail pricing (price fixing/cartel), the licensor does not have jurisdiction over the pricing decisions of the licensee. The fallacy of the Japanese retail industry is the existence of the resale price maintenance practice, notably for intellectual property such as publications (manga tankoubon/ magazines) and recorded material (CDs (caveat: DVDs are an exception)). If the Japanese publisher believes that this practice is only way to ensure profits, the you can tell him that it is illegal in your homeland.

All in all, this is just my personal thoughts coming from my experience with general trading issues, thus it may not be applicable in your case. Japanese companies are quite feeble when it comes to contract matters, and chances are the person in charge has no idea of the contents.

Good luck with your business, and it this post serves as any reference, I'll be obliged.

[Brutus]

hi guys, do anyone know how much money voice actors make? i also heard that voice actors in japan are almost as famous as movie stars etc is this true? ^^

[Disembodied Voice]

Here's your answer: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...6&postcount=31

[friendshipz]

Originally Posted by Disembodied Voice

Here's your answer: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...6&postcount=31

actually can i "NOT"believe that cruelty quote...
2,000yen to 3,000yen is way too little.probably saying that all fresh seiyuu(put aside family finance) they are all pauper initially..
so my question start from here(ironic and ignorant question..because i still have much doubt about the reality of seiyuu and otaku..)

-when a seiyuu starts to get her popularity(getting herself single album featuring her appearance and the anime, concert,etc etc)so will she getting more pay and so called "promoted" when she done a per esp anime? take for example,the anime series mai hime, how much will mai nakahara gets when she done a casting for that anime per esp? or is she still getting a stipend pays from the agent by casting in anime?she's a well known seiyuu which also perform her voice in drama,radio shows etc etc

-how about seiyuu/singer like minami kuribayashi? she has her own single and also casting in anime as a seiyuu...but seiyuu isnt her main role..but she is getting the stipend pay like others novice seiyuu??
same goes with Ami koshimizu(well known for mai otome..i presume)she also has her own single....how does she get herself so popular out of the sudden?.I don't think that she has been in seiyuu industry for long enough to get herself so popular..(shes only 20) and now, she has done much more anime that recently released last yr and starting of this year.so what is her pay structured like compared to other "freshman" seiyuu?.

ironic question comes!~!
why do japanese want to become seiyuu?...(for the issue on animator i can rougly get the ideas)
they went all the way through their school life, than went in to a university to graudate as a seiyuu :/ ?where even a macdonald crew or other maiden in the cafer earn 3 times more than a "fresh graduate" >_>"


-seiyuu with good voice and their vocal are capable to sing, are this seiyuu much preferable? take for example, ai shimizu and sakura nokawa(both has her own single and album).


-can i have a much more explicit structure on the pay?
the starting pay for a seiyuu is between the range of 2000 to 3000yen per esp
so when the seiyuu gets her popularity, a anime producer employ her as one of the casting crew, so is she able to quote her own price if she was invited or is she still getting a stipend pay quoted by the producer with a pathetic 3000yen max?

[Srin Tuar]

Originally Posted by friendshipz

actually can i "NOT"believe that cruelty quote...
2,000yen to 3,000yen is way too little.probably saying that all fresh seiyuu(put aside family finance) they are all pauper initially..
so my question start from here(ironic and ignorant question..because i still have much doubt about the reality of seiyuu and otaku..)

Kj went on to explain the secret to it in another post: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=150

They get alot of perks, such as free food, hotel rooms, trips, transportation, vacation, etc.
Basicaly, Geinoujin live off their company tab, and the official "earnings" they get are in
reality just a bit of pocket change.

The net offect is that they become beholder to their employer, and have little independance.

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

Kj went on to explain the secret to it in another post.
I'd be hard pressed to find it right now but the gist of it is this:

They get alot of perks, such as free food, hotel rooms, trips, transportation, vacation, etc.
Basicaly, Geinoujin live off their company tab, and the official "earnings" they get are in
reality just a bit of pocket change.

The net offect is that they become beholder to their employer, and have little independance.

That's true for most American Pop Musicians too. They have little or no money of their own, but ton's of perks, such as houses, cars, and maids. But once they leave that lifestyle they get nothing or end up owing. A very good example is the movie 'That thing you do' where Tom hanks plays the manager of a new upcoming #1 group. When it was over, they had less than what they started with.

But REC the anime shows just how little most VA's have especially when they are starting out.

[Prince of Moles]

I think what people forget is that the median household income even in the US (the richest large industrial nation) is somewhere around $45,000-50,000. That's about $4000 per month minus the tax, so that household is actually getting around $2500-$2800 per month. Also this is the median household income so 2 people might be working to earn this amount. And don't forget, half the households are earning less than this amount!

Someone mentioned a dentist making $70,000. That's a ton of money for half the households in the US. Will you be making over $50,000? 50/50!

[Vaines]

I always wondered, each time I saw threads about young people stating their wish to learn how to draw manga/anime and head over to Japan to have it as their job, how this was accepted by the Japanese? Do such persons ever get a job? What kind? Are there in some per example anime creation teams some non-japanese? If there are, do they come from specific countries (Korea, USA, etc)? Are they published? Do Japanese refrain from buying them? Some of you might say that "if it's not made by japanese, it's not anime", but don't forget that the term "anime" is a japanese term for all animations.

Anyone?

[wao]

I'm also interested in the success of non-Japanese working in Japan in the actual production of manga and anime. Not fan-works, but actual shows that are aired on tv/sold as ovas/screened as movies and so on.

But I haven't heard much, really - besides the occasional thing like that 3D animator who worked at IG for a short while and whatshername going on an internship in Kyoto Animation for a short while as well.

I have noticed some non-Asian names in anime credits, namely Alexandra Weichrauch who is an in-betweener at Ghibli, Jimmy Stone who appears to be a key animator, and Hedwig Schleck (?) who is a producer at Asahi TV. But whether they're Japanese going under pennames (unlikely I think) or non-Japanese born and raised in Japan or half-Japanese, I have no clue.

It's possible that if there are foreigners working in the industry in Japan they go by Japanese pennames so as to keep a low profile. I doubt many would want to work in that field anyway if they hear the seriously hard life that animators have to go through. You'd also have to deal with the added stigma of being a gaijin.