2006-11-02, 08:59 | Link #81 |
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And is it possible that Takano's "madness" is also driven by the Hinamizawa Syndrome?
Keichii, an outsider, only moved to the village one month ago and he is already an infected carrier of the syndrome. Thus for Takano and Ire who work and stay there for years, they probably also are infected by the paranoid as well. If that's the case, it may explain well why Takano wanted "to destroy all of hinamizawa" after hearing the news that the research centre is going to shut down... |
2006-11-02, 09:22 | Link #82 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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errr... i think you are thinking too much
except for hanyuu (with some extent : the reboot thing, and memories of rika), everything in HNNKN is pretty rationnal (even the syndrome isn't really unreal, it could be possible, based on the possible delusions with only psychological unstability). the world still has its mysteries, but it's rather possible to determine things with scienc and such (the story is fictionnal, yet, almost everything is based on facts) for takano, you are mixing paranoia and... well, megalomania. the syndrome is just putting the person under severe paranoia, creating fear, delusions, killing frenzy, and huge urging scratching need around the throat. takano is simply a huge megalo, because of her grandfather (the syndrom could increase the effect though)
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2006-11-02, 09:47 | Link #83 | |
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But i admit that post was just another form of "takano's scrapebook" to try to rationalise how the syndrome come about lol. |
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2006-11-02, 22:48 | Link #84 |
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I have to confess I had a good ride on tehtf post right there xD~
also, Takano scrapbooks are all lies made up to instigate further madness on her victims. Notice how she handles precisely the scrapbook which would trigger the most delusional behaviour for each character when needed (notes on Gosanke/Shinozaki wrongdoings for Shion, notes on the whole alien/bio weapon conspiracy to Rena), though Oishi apreended lots of her scrapbooks and none of them make sense at all. I bet she is just having fun, but that's actually pretty smart, that's called "desinformation warfare", spreading incorrect information so you never know if you got is right or not. |
2006-11-03, 08:16 | Link #85 |
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Hey, everyone, this is my first post to the Higurashi board on the AnimeSuki forums; I'd like to thank the translators for all their hard work. This post contains a number of questions and guesses/theories, so please bear with me. I'm going to use the spoiler tags to save space, since this is kind of long
Spoiler for Why Rika's parents were killed:
Spoiler for The syringe Mion and Rena used on Keiichi:
Spoiler for How much of the first arc were Keiichi's delusions and hallucinations:
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2006-11-03, 10:07 | Link #86 | |
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The reason of this specific hallucination? Ooishi mentioned to Keiichi that Tomitake could have died from abuse of some drug (drug calls syringe, isn't it?)
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2006-11-03, 10:49 | Link #87 | ||
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there is indeed a high chance that rika's mother was the "second sacrifice" (the sixth dam manager murderer would be the first)
also, this wouldn't be surprising if rika's father was in fact murdered by the yamainu, to put some chaos and paranoid beliefs (they were taking the opportunity with the 2 previous coincidence : dam manager murder, and houjou couple accident). i agree with this : takano would have be behind the scene concerning the third incident. Quote:
that's why, you noticed yourself : it would be a bit weird for irie to come, while he gave a syringue to mion. this proves again that mion didn't have any syringue. every scene with people under oyashiro-sama mode (AKA the "seed mode", cat/lizard eyes) are always delusions (they are only found in Onikakushi-hen, and Watanagashi-hen at the very end, when keiichi "saw" a "bloody mion" assaulting him, which was denied by the end scroll ) the 3 yamainu men were under irie command, and was supposed to take care of keiichi and bring him back home, under mion and rena's care, while he was coming with some treatment. (since keiichi was under L5 state). however, he didn't make in time... but, you are right for one point : rika's syringue content is the C103. according the comments of irie about it, the C103 has nasty effects on sane people, which is why rika was really in a bad shape when shion injected her the C103, at meakashi-hen. Quote:
it is then assumed that keiichi thought his toungue was hurting and bleeding, although there wasn't any needle. #2 : correct : Mion probably cursed ooshi, because of his way to solve the mysteries, causing probably keiichi to distrust everyone. (and indeed, keiichi misunderstoot it, with his delusions) #1 : correct. (in the manga and the game, rena told in fact that she indeed saw keiichi buying instant noodles.) #3 : again, correct : we can assume that rena was really scared, and begging keiichi to believe her, especially when she tried to hug/approche him. the laughter is, again, misterpretation due the paranoia. for the other scenes, mainly "oyashiro mode", they are also delusions, either the speech or the action (rena trying to force the door while she was offering some dinner would in fact only put her fingers slowly, but keiichi took it as an attack, especially that she said he was lying and was a bit persistant and worried, so keiichi panicked again)
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2006-11-03, 13:27 | Link #88 | |
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See Piece #07 which has just been posted as the truth behind that will be uncovered there. Last edited by kj1980; 2006-11-03 at 13:38. |
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2006-11-03, 13:43 | Link #89 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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oh my... this is a fabulous piece oO
thx KJ, that is sure a perfect timing ! not only the "curse" system is now complete (mix of takano, sonozaki and anciant belief), but also the extent of takano power. and iof course, with the H170, it wouldn't be hard for takano, to force rika's mother into a L5 state, which irie would not suspect at all. (previous queen thing, always next to rika etc...). takano is really smart and cunning ~~ but hell... she is REALLY THAT nuts
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2006-11-03, 14:22 | Link #90 |
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Yes, this and the putting the pieces thread together shows just how
diabolical Takano Miyo is - remember, this is her grandfather's research. No cost is too extreme apparently for her. Yeow. This is a hell of a story. You have to wonder what the 7th Expension group does for fun on the weekends? Grim stuff!
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2006-11-04, 01:15 | Link #92 |
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Again, this is rather long, so using spoiler tags to not take up so much vertical screen space.
Spoiler for Responses to other posts:
Spoiler for Response to Piece #07:
Spoiler for About the reboots:
Spoiler for About Hanyuu and Oyashiro-sama:
Spoiler for Speculation about Satoshi's fate:
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2006-11-04, 08:01 | Link #93 | |||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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i guess the syringue matter was a problem for irie, since he gave to keiichi a shot (which was really suspicious, since it's quite bizarre to give a shot for the flu, and even worse when you know that keiichi faked a flu). so, they possibly misunderstood what keiichi meant with the syringue (but it would be a bit strange for them to remove the "syringue" which is in fact the marker ) but the police investigation is fact : we have another point of view, from ooishi. and this time, we know only what the police have found. so, the note was really cut, and something is missing behind the clock. Quote:
although keiichi was under L5 state, i would say that irie was gambling with Mion and Rena, since they "are" his best friends. Even if keiichi was under L4-L5, he wouldn't expect him to have an immediate killing frenzey (probably just like satoko, who was kinda calm). So, he probably asked for them to soothing a bit with some fun etc. unfortunately for them, Keiichi was way more dangerous than expected. like you said, he couldn't reveal what's the hinamizawa syndrom, so, his actions were really limited. another problem : rena was around when keiichi snapped and get caught by the yamainu, so they wouldn't be able to take him to the facility (keiichi would witness the facility, and rena would think strange that they wouldn't let him rest, etc) for the injection, i guess he will still inject him the C103, but lying to the girls saying : this is a sedative, he will be calmer, and with some time to rest, he will be better. he had probably too much stresses, homesickness etc. Mion and Rena have witnessed keiichi's erratic behaviour, so some sedative would sound really normal i guess. as for the bat, it's highly probable that the yamainu was simply underestimating like irie, his killing power. since keiichi was only defending himself and running away, they could think he was using this bat as only a threat and have no plan to smash anyone with it (and since keiichi is a kid for them, you can bet they were really not expecting him to cause a real threat to them...) Quote:
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keiichi was really under huge stress : seeing mion about the delusion "killing ooishi" would probably give him more creeps and would feel some direct killing attempt on him. Quote:
now, if we can imagine how rena would react "normally" here, it would be the first time that keiichi "attacks" her directly, leaving her no clue why he do that, though he is yelling "go home!". and we probably know : rena would feel herself guilty and could felt like it was her fault, and she was "fooling around". however, the "too much" is really weird... it is also possible that it's ANOTHER delusion (it could be a mistake from the anime too). Quote:
it would be the L3-L4. though, keiichi had experimented 2 near death experience with a "oni" mion : the silly "demon" case was really sticking his mind. with the stress and pain with theses 2 situations, it is kinda huge already. now, if you add some silly ooishi's "undead" comment, it would make sense. i don't think there is anything special with the inhabitants, but like any pathogen, some people are more resilient to X pathogen than another etc. Quote:
we will see at another piece probably, but well... it is certain that takano will toy a lot with rika's mother, as the former queen or/and as a L5 state. Spoiler for Response to Piece #07:
it's way too vague to understand her point of view, despite her comment about the queen etc. ~~ Spoiler for About the reboots:
about hanyuu : hanyuu is a part of rika's past and she will be always in her memories. so the first theory is false i think : i don't think hanyuu will simply travel between the universe to help. she will probably reboot to the maximum she could in the past, and when she succeed, it would create in the time, another universe. so, you second theory is most likely the good one. as for the second theory problem : this was a bit convenient, but most of the random and dangerous factor happen around 2 weeks befor ethe watanagashi festival. keep in mind that several parts of the story are canon in any chapter like : the 4 oyashiro-sama incident, rena's past, ekiichi's past, shion and satoshi's story, shion who snapped towards mion etc. they can't alter this, since it doesn't belong to the rule X, they are "inevitable". Spoiler for About Hanyuu and Oyashiro-sama:
huho, long and nice theory ^^. humm let's see... why hanyuu is tied in hinamizawa? this is hard to determine it, since we don't know how she was "born". my guess is she didn't even try to find someone who can see her outside hinamizawa : she isn't really a brave character to begin with. so i would assume that she would think "this is useless, no one will see me anyway and even if someone does, it will reject me since i'm not human and i'm ugly" (i'm referring it with TIPS #136 ) Spoiler for Speculation about Satoshi's fate:
i don't really see his smile as a evil smirk (though his eyes are not visible, which would give this feeling) in fact, the anime messed up this part of Tatarigoroshi. according Sushi-Y, there wasn't any satoshi memory when keiichi pats her head. as soon as he touches her, satoko snapped. the main difference in the game and anime is : it's too late, she is broken. (i guess Deen made the "good" choice though : the anime watchers wouldn't have enough clue to guess it was already too late. so they put some satoshi memory to justify why she gets crazy like this) don't think too much about satoshi, he is alive, but his wherabouts aren't shown yet.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2006-11-04 at 08:13. |
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2006-11-04, 22:51 | Link #95 | |||||
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A question about the syndrome scale: for the vast majority of the villagers who are infected with the parasite but have no symptoms, are they L0 or L1? Also, what does the "L" stand for? And while on the subject of letters, what does the "C" of C103 and the "H" of H170 stand for? Quote:
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EDIT: And a question about the reboots: with each reboot, the only things that change are whatever leads up to different things happening in June 1983, right? For instance, what happens in London has no bearing on what happens in Hinamizawa, so every last little thing that happens in London happens exactly the same for every reboot, right? Because if, say, random factors caused the people who died in car accidents in London to be different during each reboot, it would be strange that Takano, Tomitake, Irie and all the Watanagashi victims never, ever die in car accidents due to random factors, no matter how many reboots there are. So, assuming I got that right, the differences between reboots are caused by Rika acting differently. For instance, in different reboots she varies how she plays the game at the toy shop, so sometimes Keiichi wins the doll and sometimes he doesn't, and whenever Keiichi wins the doll he gives it to Rena, resulting in Shion evenutally going crazy and killing everyone (I'm guessing that Rika evneutally figured out that "Keiichi wins doll" -> "Shion going insane", and thereafter insured that Keiichi never won the doll again). However, there are other changes that don't seem to be directly tied to Rika. For instance, in Onikakushi-hen (ep 1-4) Ooishi interviews Keiichi about Tomitake's apparent suicide, but at the start Tsumihoroboshi-hen (ep 22-26) Ooishi interviews Rena instead, and at the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen he interviews Rika. Does Rika phone in an anonymous tip to the police saying "You should ask X about Tomitake", varying it with each reboot, or is Rika indirectly and unintentionally inlfuencing Ooishi, like through some form of butterfly effect. Or is there someone besides Rika who can behave different during each reboot, independant of how s/he is directly or indirectly influenced by Rika's actions? Last edited by Khym Chanur; 2006-11-05 at 01:51. |
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2006-11-05, 08:48 | Link #97 | ||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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there is no information for the C and H yet. (they are probably generic names) Quote:
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the environment could be a factor, but like i said earlier, there are several people who didn't suffer anything from moving away). thus, it's possible that the cause is the oyashiro belief (it will punish who would try to betray hinamizawa. running away is considered as a sin), or something external from people life (something random etc) so, returning to hinamizawa could give them a relief feeling, and would suppress some of the symptoms. Quote:
keep in mind that the following answers might not be accurate/true. my knowledge is limited to : the anime, manga, the aniesuki translations, the actual minagoroshi translation, and some spoilers scattered around. (i have the game, but since i have no japanese knowledge (patiently waiting for the future patches ), i just took a quick look to matsuribayashi, without spoilering myself too much XD) for the general information, until it's said in the game, we don't have any clue about hanyuu past. it appears that she witnessed lots of things from the past etc, nothing really accurate. Quote:
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It's true she wouldn't suffer as much, but there wouldn't have any guarantee that she could live peacefully with her parents, whil in Hinamizawa (the dam project and all.) the past is the part you can't change. granted, the present can be altered to bring a brighter future. so satoko is not really hopeless. As you could see in the story, satoko is perfectly fine in most chapters, except when her uncle is back. Despite the dramatic end of Minagoroshi, satoko's case will be fixed (you will probably give more than 1 thumb for keiichi ^^) Quote:
If i recall right, rika said that she once tried to survive by herself and she hide in the woods. ironically, this was the time she survived the longest period ever. (i don't remember how many hours...) so, it is possible that in some stories, there are random accidents. However, as you can see, in hinamizawa, there isn't a lot of possibilities of this. Also, the more hanyuu and Rika reboot the world, the less they can turn back, so there is absolutely no chance that a random factor "helps" and prevents some tragedy (it would be good if takano died a long time ago in a car accident for exemple, but it would end the tragedy immediatelly so ) Quote:
however, the events in hinamizawa can change. example : rika didn't do anything, but keiichi learns about the hinamizawa serial murders differently (the worse case was he discovered too early while he didn't have a solid trust for his friends, and their denial drive him paranoid). So, like it is said in the minagoroshi prologue : some events are inevitable, due the "strong will" of certain persons. Some events happen depending of the previous random and different factors.
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2006-11-05, 11:08 | Link #98 | |
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Now it seems to me that the "queen theory" IS a fake.
But there are still some other questions. The needled (cake, pie) something in the 1st arc. What was that? Quote:
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2006-11-05, 11:12 | Link #99 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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i said it earlier, but nevermind ^^"
i'm not 100% sure, but it was said that the ohagi was filled with tabasco (or another spicy sauce), which mislead keiichi. (under his extreme paranoia, he sensed a wound, instead of the spicy taste... duh XD) mion didn't denied that she set a trap when keiichi was yelling at her, but she wouldn't understand why he was saying "blood" etc. (rena didn't know anything about the "wrong ohagi" ) EDIT : i found my source! XD (in lostblue spoiler, Tsumihoroboshi Hen )
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2006-11-05 at 11:25. |
2006-11-05, 18:29 | Link #100 | |||
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And an unimportant question (but I'm curious): one of the Pieces reveals that the syndrome researchers intend to trepan Rika so that they can get a sample of her cranial fluid. Does the game ever show the hole in Rika's head? |
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