Sword Art Online - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Oroboro]

Remember, we saw you can't see a persons name in SAO unless you're in a party with them, so unless they're a part of the clearing group, most people who would've heard of him would have by the nickname "The Black Swordsman."

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by GDB

Probably to break her spirit. The exit is right there. The way to open it is right there. Yet she's powerless to do anything about it.

Until she does something about it, as I surmise she will. Seriously, this bad guy is a sadistic idiot. Just alter her memories and get on with your life already.

He can't get a good result yet. That's why he still needs guinea pigs.

[Vsin]

From my perspective, and considering the novel, everything up to this point is really just exposition. The world is this, my plan is that, and Lyfa/Suguha gets revealed.

The ALO arc focuses a fair bit on the dramatic irony of the double parallel Kazuto/Suguha Kirito/Lyfa pairing, so the reveal isn't supposed to be something special. [mod edit: removed allusion to future novel content] So whereas SAO was a case of "reality that is not reality", ALO is closer to "an extension of reality".

If you're looking at the ALO arc and wondering if you should continue, I'd say wait till next EP. [mod edit: removed more allusions to future novel content]

[Post-edit-self-edit]
Ehhh, the first one was probably too alludy, but the second was mostly "If you don't like it now, don't worry it gets better." *grumble*

[Archmagination2002]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yeah, this is why I can't really bring myself to hate him so much. If Kabaya made NerveGear and SAO just to create the fantasy world in his head, then Sugou is doing basically the same: it's almost like he's just living out his fantasy of being a villain. (The whole Oberon/Titania thing being a prime example of this.) If I didn't know better, with the way he's spilling secrets left, right, and center (and standing to the side to make sure that Asuna could see him entering the "secret code" ), I'd almost say that he wants the hero to come defeat him and rescue the "princess", just so that this little play of his can reach its foreseen end. So I really can't take him seriously; I almost see the whole thing as a parody, whether it really is or it isn't. Meanwhile, everything else that's going on is where the fun is for me.

Thing about seeing the code is she couldn't see anything at all due to the complete blur he made it be. Its all part of Sugoh plan.. he wants to tease, torment and break her. What better way of tormenting/breaking her than by making it seem "If only I could see through the blur to the code sequence he does I could escape."

While I will always think of him as a typical villain what he is trying to do really scares me. To implant/change memory, emotions, etc of the brain is something I find really chilling.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yeah, this is why I can't really bring myself to hate him so much. If Kabaya made NerveGear and SAO just to create the fantasy world in his head, then Sugou is doing basically the same: it's almost like he's just living out his fantasy of being a villain. (The whole Oberon/Titania thing being a prime example of this.) If I didn't know better, with the way he's spilling secrets left, right, and center (and standing to the side to make sure that Asuna could see him entering the "secret code" ), I'd almost say that he wants the hero to come defeat him and rescue the "princess", just so that this little play of his can reach its foreseen end. So I really can't take him seriously; I almost see the whole thing as a parody, whether it really is or it isn't. Meanwhile, everything else that's going on is where the fun is for me.

He's not so much as playing a villain but has a full on god complex. His interactions with Asuna is not so much as having her but as having absolute utter control over her. And with the god complex comes the ego to go with it. He feels secure in his power as he has absolute control over the environment around him.

Suffice to say, yeah he's ridiculously over the top and cheesy, but being trapped in a cage by a psycho not only having to deal with the delicate juggling of not provoking him enough to violate you by force you have to spend your days counting down the time to where he can flip a switch and rewrite your thoughts and will at the base level until you're no longer you anymore. That I would have to imagine is freaking SCARY.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Suffice to say, yeah he's ridiculously over the top and cheesy, but being trapped in a cage by a psycho not only having to deal with the delicate juggling of not provoking him enough to violate you by force you have to spend your days counting down the time to where he can flip a switch and rewrite your thoughts and will at the base level until you're no longer you anymore. That I would have to imagine is freaking SCARY.

Oh, despite how I feel about him as a viewer (because it's easy to figure that Kirito will save the day), I definitely understand why Asuna wouldn't see it that way. To her, this experience must be positively terrifying -- it's out of the frying pan and into the fire. Before they were fighting against a world with some sense of order, clear consequences, and a known goal. Here, it's against a crazy guy who could do anything he wants if his mood changes. I totally have no problem relating to the way she must feel, even if it all looks silly to us.

Originally Posted by Archmagination2002

While I will always think of him as a typical villain what he is trying to do really scares me. To implant/change memory, emotions, etc of the brain is something I find really chilling.

Absolutely. And, though it may annoy people for me to say this, I'm sure the thing she feels she's most at risk of having stolen from her is her memories of Kazuto/Kirito -- what better way to eliminate your "rival" than to wipe out all traces of his existence from that person's mind? It is pretty chilling all around, and doubly-so for her.

[Vmem]

Originally Posted by The Green One

He's not so much as playing a villain but has a full on god complex. His interactions with Asuna is not so much as having her but as having absolute utter control over her. And with the god complex comes the ego to go with it. He feels secure in his power as he has absolute control over the environment around him. There's other parts to it but that's too spoilerific right now.

The issue with god complexes is that we're humans, not god. the sooner we start feeling comfortable in our position of power, the sooner we slip up. It wouldn't be hard to imagine Sugou's god complex slipping into his actions in real life, where he isn't all-powerful.

the key to being a world dominating super-villain is = being obsessively, meticulously careful about every tiny possibility of your plains failing, and have fail-safe plans, and fail-safe plans for your fail-safe plans, and add another fail-safe plan just for extra good measure

Of course, that takes all the fun out of world domination

[Dengar]

^Or just consult the overlord's list.

Speaking of the overlord's list. If I remember my lists correctly, the only rules he's NOT breaking are the ones that aren't applicable to the current situation.

[Vmem]

Originally Posted by Dengar

^Or just consult the overlord's list.

Speaking of the overlord's list. If I remember my lists correctly, the only rules he's NOT breaking are the ones that aren't applicable to the current situation.

he's following this one

29. I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Oh, despite how I feel about him as a viewer (because it's easy to figure that Kirito will save the day), I definitely understand why Asuna wouldn't see it that way. To her, this experience must be positively terrifying -- it's out of the frying pan and into the fire. Before they were fighting against a world with some sense of order, clear consequences, and a known goal. Here, it's against a crazy guy who could do anything he wants if his mood changes. I totally have no problem relating to the way she must feel, even if it all looks silly to us.

Absolutely. And, though it may annoy people for me to say this, I'm sure the thing she feels she's most at risk of having stolen from her is her memories of Kazuto/Kirito -- what better way to eliminate your "rival" than to wipe out all traces of his existence from that person's mind? It is pretty chilling all around, and doubly-so for her.

Or how about the constant fear of "Has it started yet? Am I still myself? Has he already changed something? How will I ever know that something I had is now gone?" With nothing to do but sit there and think about this day in and day out is not very good for the mental health.

Lets not forget the fact that she's already been trapped there for 2 months now.

[Seitsuki]

We're so sorry Sugu. If you had been his real imouto you may have been able to ride the wave, but as his cousin.. ;_;

[Dengar]

For a minute there I specifically thought Lifa -wasn't- going to be Suguha. I guess it's wrong to unexpect the expected.

[SilverSyko]

Oh brother. I already had an inkling that Lyfa was Suguha in actuality but this confirmation just depresses me. Still, it doesn't make her introduction pointless at least. Now if only her crush on Kazuto didn't exist I'd probably have more respect for her.

Hmmmm, Sugou's train wreck of a villainous role is a little easier to accept in his Oberon appearance considering this is more how I'd expect a villain from a fantasy story to act. Too bad it's only just an avatar.

Pretty boring episode for me though. All-in-all I could hardly find myself to give a shit about anything. Not even Sugou's goal was particularly interesting. (But I will give credit that he actually has a more sensible one, unlike Kayaba.) I'm not even sure what the point of it is.

Unless something incredibly awesome happens soon, I'm still thinking this show would've been better off ending after episode 14. It's not looking good.

[Vmem]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Hmmmm, Sugou's train wreck of a villainous role is a little easier to accept in his Oberon appearance considering this is more how I'd expect a villain from a fantasy story to act. Too bad it's only just an avatar.

Pretty boring episode for me though. All-in-all I could hardly find myself to give a shit about anything. Not even Sugou's goal was particularly interesting. (But I will give credit that he actually has a more sensible one, unlike Kayaba.) I'm not even sure what the point of it is.

to be honest I've always seen Kayaba more as an existentialist philosopher with some weird ideas than a real villain, so I consider Sugou to be the first real villain in the series. (of course, I do acknowledge that Kayaba has caused more deaths, but it's not like no philosopher has led/inspired holy crusades or any such murderous campaigns)

As for Sugou, I have an overwhelming urge to "KILL HIM WITH FIRE!"

[Dr. Casey]

I never had the slightest clue that Leafa might turn out to be Suguha, but then I have the weakest plot twistdar in the world. I'm the sort of person who could read John Dies at the End, and then be utterly shocked when John dies at the end.

I was surprised to learn that ALO has been around for almost an entire year... during early 2024, Sword Art Online was still quite some time away from being concluded, I would expect VMMORPG distrust and hysteria to still be very high. The Japanese must not be a very cautious sort.

I'm really enjoying this arc so far. I love the muted dark green colors, the elven motif, and think the pacing has been perfect, very much slow but steady.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I was surprised to learn that ALO has been around for almost an entire year... during early 2024, Sword Art Online was still quite some time away from being concluded, I would expect VMMORPG distrust and hysteria to still be very high. The Japanese must not be a very cautious sort.

Well they could have been extremely cautious but eventually people joining, and there would be people joining human nature being what it is, would not be having any problems so that would slowly die down.

[Lenneth4]

What was his plan ? I didnt get it well

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Lenneth4

What was his plan ? I didnt get it well

Sugou's plan? He's researching the ability to use virtual reality Full Dive to manipulate memories and emotions, basically the ability to brainwash someone.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Xacual

Sugou's plan? He's researching the ability to use virtual reality Full Dive to manipulate memories and emotions, basically the ability to brainwash someone.

And then sell the ability for high profits.

[Lenneth4]

Oh ok
Thanks guys !

And yeah the sugou online was way more classic villain than the one in real life wich was more subtile (especially with kirito )