AnimeSuki Forums

ReddyRedWolf · 2012-05-11, 01:23

Scrap this episode is referencing the OVA more and more. Which makes me think Altair is really the OVA universe.

Spoiler for Sex change OVA Touma, Mykage, Sex change MIX:

In the OVA Touma became more feminine briefly when his Cherubim was absorbing the light of the Wings of the Sun to produce a god.

If OVA Touma was turning female could it be the same process that affected Mix?

Also could Mykage be OVA Touma?

Spoiler for Ripping off hands Evol and OVA:

OVA Touma sliced off OVA Silvia's hand with a wing when his plan didn't work.

But is he? Zen seems to suggest otherwise.

Spoiler for Otoha's role in the past:

Course OVA and TV Otoha were killed. The former blown up in a suicide with Pierre's Assault Aquarion, the later killed by Silvia herself.

But OVA Otoha was killed before Touma sliced off Silvia's arm. Or did she?

kuromitsu · 2012-05-11, 06:56

>Vena
Re: Shushu, if we think of it as having a mind on its own rather than being just an indicator of Mikono's feelings its behavior makes sense. It both acts on its own and on basis of how Mikono feels. So it attacks Amata when it's jealous, but also when it feels that Mikono is angry at him (great excuse for clawing his face...), or when it thinks Mikono is in danger (see ep 1). It's afraid of Kagura but goes into fangirl(? fan-cat) mode when he licks it. (Also, if it's only jealous of people Mikono likes very much there's no reason for being jealous of Kagura, seeing that at this point she's mostly confused about him). It hisses at Yunoha who is now best friends with Mikono, but doesn't mind Mix who's on good terms with her but nothing very close. Only the ear-heart scene is an exception, but maybe it didn't connect Mikono being dokidoki with Amata because he wasn't there in person. Or something.

Anyway, I think you see now where I'm coming from with my complaints about the writing... ^^;;

miketyson · 2012-05-11, 08:09

Vena: the only way you can really retcon Shu-Shu behavior is to assume, per kuromitsu, it has a mind of its own and a few different modes.

The writers wanted us to think there were two modes:

Defensive Mode: Shu-shu's an overly protective guardian.

Mirror Mode: reacts to / plays off of what Mikono's feeling.

Which left a bit of ambiguity about why it's attacking Amata, etc., only to get eventually resolved by introducing a third mode:

Jealous Mode: reacts badly to people Mikono cares about.

This really isn't great writing, however, because the way Mikono explained "Jealous" mode makes it sound like that's its exclusive mode of operation, even though to make sense at all its necessary for it to have used all 3 modes.

The problem is that you can't just replace the "defensive mode" scenes with "jealous mode" and have it all make sense; some of the scenes are jealous mode, some are defensive mode, and thus it doesn't actually make things crystal clear (at least not until we see how everything ends up), it just makes it possible for things to be clearer.

And in re: the dad, pretty much exactly that. I've probably beaten to death the way that they've been avoiding having Cayenne and Mikono interact outside of combat because the natural conversation topics for them would be Kagura / prophecy stuff first (and maybe Amata second, etc.), which are both topics the writers don't want to address that directly this "early" in the show still (sigh). So the dad does double-duty as clarifying what Mikono's main "issue" is supposed to be (afraid of speaking her mind) and also providing a pretext for her and her brother to have a nice moment (who knows when/if they'll ever meet again now, sigh...).

MikeFudo · 2012-05-13, 10:45

Once Shrade said that he has to meet a shadow angel on Altair planet, but I can't remember the angel's name (it happened many episodes ago), anyone knows?

I just had a flashback when I saw Shrade going to the angels' planet in the 20th episode.

Korps! · 2012-05-13, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeFudo

Once Shrade said that he has to meet a shadow angel on Altair planet, but I can't remember the angel's name (it happened many episodes ago), anyone knows?

Yep, the Angel of Death.

kuromitsu · 2012-05-13, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korps!

Yep, the Angel of Death.

?? When was this? I don't remember anything like that... so far Mykage is the only Shadow Angel around and I don't think Shrade has met him yet. (Besides, isn't this Shrade's first time on Altair?)

MikeFudo · 2012-05-13, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korps!

Yep, the Angel of Death.

I thought he said another name, are you sure? According to this article of Anime Evo, the angel of death is Apollonius, even though I'm not sure it's 100% accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

?? When was this? I don't remember anything like that... so far Mykage is the only Shadow Angel around and I don't think Shrade has met him yet. (Besides, isn't this Shrade's first time on Altair?)

I'm going to watch from the 1st episode once again lol, I wanna know it but I don't remember what episode was that, it's before the 10th I think.

kuromitsu · 2012-05-13, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeFudo

I thought he said another name, are you sure? According to this article of Anime Evo, the angel of death is Apollonius, even though I'm not sure it's 100% accurate.

IIRC technically Apollonius was the Angel of Massacre but only before he met Celiane and she softened his heart, or something. (By the way this is again something that is more than a little unclear because while we've seen Apollonius be all RAARRRGH APOLLONIUS SMASH, we also know that he was nice and gentle and all with Touma. That is, until the whole Celiane business started. Then again, Apollonius never had much personality to begin with.)

SolarAquarion · 2012-05-13, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

IIRC technically Apollonius was the Angel of Massacre but only before he met Celiane and she softened his heart, or something. (By the way this is again something that is more than a little unclear because while we've seen Apollonius be all RAARRRGH APOLLONIUS SMASH, we also know that he was nice and gentle and all with Touma. That is, until the whole Celiane business started. Then again, Apollonius never had much personality to begin with.)

Wait, does Amata have a personality?

queenSwild · 2012-05-13, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xezexal

Wait, does Amata have a personality?

Yeah, he's the every man, the nice guy, the butt monkey, and so on.. Although his personality is not as "out there" as Kagura's doggish, bad boy altitude. It's still a personality.

Spoilers for episode 20..

Spoiler for da-da-da-DUM!:

Who woulda thunk it?:P

Spoiler for "For people who havn't watched episode 20":

kuromitsu · 2012-05-13, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xezexal

Wait, does Amata have a personality?

And that is relevant to the conversation because...?

But yeah, he does have a personality. As queenSwild said it's not a very loud or out-there one, which I guess makes him boring for many people, and the writing doesn't do him any favors - though that's not the character's fault. But he does have a personality. (And I happen to like characters like him.)

SolarAquarion · 2012-05-13, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by queenSwild

Yeah, he's the every man, the nice guy, the butt monkey, and so on.. Although his personality is not as "out there" as Kagura's doggish, bad boy altitude. It's still a personality.

Spoilers for episode 20..

Spoiler for da-da-da-DUM!:

Who woulda thunk it?:P

Spoiler for "For people who havn't watched episode 20":

Do we know what's the limits of Kagura's reversing power?

queenSwild · 2012-05-13, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xezexal

Do we know what's the limits of Kagura's reversing power?

Nope, the guy is freakin broken. He can reverse cars, robot damages, and Shrade's music waves. Although Amata did stop it once with his "detachment wing" power up one time. We'll see how he does next time around.

SolarAquarion · 2012-05-13, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And that is relevant to the conversation because...?

But yeah, he does have a personality. As queenSwild said it's not a very loud or out-there one, which I guess makes him boring for many people, and the writing doesn't do him any favors - though that's not the character's fault. But he does have a personality. (And I happen to like characters like him.)

It is a joke in the end. Perhaps it is connected to all those shipping war drama?

miketyson · 2012-05-13, 18:30

MikeFudo: you're probably thinking of the bit where Schrade says his life is being played with by an abductor known as disease. I remember there being some confusion because the subs got that one wrong and had it as "abductor known as Yamai" or something, leading to some interesting but ultimately misguided speculation.

If that's it I think it's in episode 5 or 6, like part of Cayenne and Schrade's conversation during the group date episode iirc.

Korps! · 2012-05-13, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

MikeFudo: you're probably thinking of the bit where Schrade says his life is being played with by an abductor known as disease. I remember there being some confusion because the subs got that one wrong and had it as "abductor known as Yamai" or something, leading to some interesting but ultimately misguided speculation.

If that's it I think it's in episode 5 or 6, like part of Cayenne and Schrade's conversation during the group date episode iirc.

This is the Angel of Death.

LastOrder · 2012-05-14, 00:54

You know, how next week's episode is labeled kiss?

Spoiler for Well:

Winged_Memories · 2012-05-14, 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastOrder

You know, how next week's episode is labeled kiss?

Spoiler for Well:

LOL...so next episode will be about the mark on Zessica's forehead that Mykage gave her (or possibly awakened it for her)...someone said it was about Zessica kissing Amata?...I actually hoped for Kagura kissing Mikono (but I dont think that is gonna happen really quickly...Oh btw if Izumo isn't Amata dad then could it possibly be Kagura? (hahaha wild theory on my part)...but you never know

MikeFudo · 2012-05-14, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

MikeFudo: you're probably thinking of the bit where Schrade says his life is being played with by an abductor known as disease. I remember there being some confusion because the subs got that one wrong and had it as "abductor known as Yamai" or something, leading to some interesting but ultimately misguided speculation.

If that's it I think it's in episode 5 or 6, like part of Cayenne and Schrade's conversation during the group date episode iirc.

/facepalm

Thnx for the infos..

cyberdemon · 2012-05-14, 18:26

I've been thinking recently that it may be possible that Mikono isn't the reincarnation of Silvia and Celiane. Rather she is the reincarnation of Alicia, Apollonius and Celiane's daughter.

It could fit into her stance with wanting to apologize to Kagura. If Kagura is the reincarnation of Apollonius and Apollo, her guilt may be tied to her previous life. She could be blaming her existence as a result of her parents love which also destroyed most of the world. This could also be a factor in Mikono's self esteem issues.

Not to mention the whole search for Eve. Alicia was basically the Eve for the surviving humans after the war with the shadow angels. They were nearly destroyed but she lead them back from the point of extinction.

It could also fit with her distaste towards Fudou (something Silvia didn't really have). He's lived since 24000 years ago. It's highly likely he had a lot of interaction with Alicia after the war and maybe helped guide her. She may have not really liked him or agreed with his methods back then as well. Something that may have passed over to her current life as well.

2012-05-11, 01:23	Link #681
ReddyRedWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Scrap this episode is referencing the OVA more and more. Which makes me think Altair is really the OVA universe. Spoiler for Sex change OVA Touma, Mykage, Sex change MIX: In the OVA Touma became more feminine briefly when his Cherubim was absorbing the light of the Wings of the Sun to produce a god. If OVA Touma was turning female could it be the same process that affected Mix? Also could Mykage be OVA Touma? Spoiler for Ripping off hands Evol and OVA: OVA Touma sliced off OVA Silvia's hand with a wing when his plan didn't work. But is he? Zen seems to suggest otherwise. Spoiler for Otoha's role in the past: Mykage is genderbent Otoha? Course OVA and TV Otoha were killed. The former blown up in a suicide with Pierre's Assault Aquarion, the later killed by Silvia herself. But OVA Otoha was killed before Touma sliced off Silvia's arm. Or did she?

2012-05-11, 06:56	Link #682
kuromitsu Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004	>Vena Re: Shushu, if we think of it as having a mind on its own rather than being just an indicator of Mikono's feelings its behavior makes sense. It both acts on its own and on basis of how Mikono feels. So it attacks Amata when it's jealous, but also when it feels that Mikono is angry at him (great excuse for clawing his face...), or when it thinks Mikono is in danger (see ep 1). It's afraid of Kagura but goes into fangirl(? fan-cat) mode when he licks it. (Also, if it's only jealous of people Mikono likes very much there's no reason for being jealous of Kagura, seeing that at this point she's mostly confused about him). It hisses at Yunoha who is now best friends with Mikono, but doesn't mind Mix who's on good terms with her but nothing very close. Only the ear-heart scene is an exception, but maybe it didn't connect Mikono being dokidoki with Amata because he wasn't there in person. Or something. Anyway, I think you see now where I'm coming from with my complaints about the writing... ^^;; Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-11 at 08:39. Reason: typos courtesy of my phone

2012-05-11, 08:09	Link #683
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Vena: the only way you can really retcon Shu-Shu behavior is to assume, per kuromitsu, it has a mind of its own and a few different modes. The writers wanted us to think there were two modes: Defensive Mode: Shu-shu's an overly protective guardian. Mirror Mode: reacts to / plays off of what Mikono's feeling. Which left a bit of ambiguity about why it's attacking Amata, etc., only to get eventually resolved by introducing a third mode: Jealous Mode: reacts badly to people Mikono cares about. This really isn't great writing, however, because the way Mikono explained "Jealous" mode makes it sound like that's its exclusive mode of operation, even though to make sense at all its necessary for it to have used all 3 modes. The problem is that you can't just replace the "defensive mode" scenes with "jealous mode" and have it all make sense; some of the scenes are jealous mode, some are defensive mode, and thus it doesn't actually make things crystal clear (at least not until we see how everything ends up), it just makes it possible for things to be clearer. And in re: the dad, pretty much exactly that. I've probably beaten to death the way that they've been avoiding having Cayenne and Mikono interact outside of combat because the natural conversation topics for them would be Kagura / prophecy stuff first (and maybe Amata second, etc.), which are both topics the writers don't want to address that directly this "early" in the show still (sigh). So the dad does double-duty as clarifying what Mikono's main "issue" is supposed to be (afraid of speaking her mind) and also providing a pretext for her and her brother to have a nice moment (who knows when/if they'll ever meet again now, sigh...). Last edited by miketyson; 2012-05-11 at 08:13. Reason: added discussion of the dad

2012-05-14, 00:54	Link #697
LastOrder Om nom nom nom Artist Join Date: May 2008 Location: In a pinepple, under the sea Age: 32	You know, how next week's episode is labeled kiss? Spoiler for Well: Yeah, I think most of us were thinking that it would happen between Andy and Mix, or Amata and one of the two heroines of this story. But, I don't believe it's either of those two at all. The "kiss" referring to the upcoming episode is related to Mykage kissing Zessica last week, and that Kiss mark he gave her, will react next episode. I find it somewhat obvious that the kiss mark will react next episode.

2012-05-14, 18:26	Link #700
cyberdemon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	I've been thinking recently that it may be possible that Mikono isn't the reincarnation of Silvia and Celiane. Rather she is the reincarnation of Alicia, Apollonius and Celiane's daughter. It could fit into her stance with wanting to apologize to Kagura. If Kagura is the reincarnation of Apollonius and Apollo, her guilt may be tied to her previous life. She could be blaming her existence as a result of her parents love which also destroyed most of the world. This could also be a factor in Mikono's self esteem issues. Not to mention the whole search for Eve. Alicia was basically the Eve for the surviving humans after the war with the shadow angels. They were nearly destroyed but she lead them back from the point of extinction. It could also fit with her distaste towards Fudou (something Silvia didn't really have). He's lived since 24000 years ago. It's highly likely he had a lot of interaction with Alicia after the war and maybe helped guide her. She may have not really liked him or agreed with his methods back then as well. Something that may have passed over to her current life as well. __________________

2012-05-13, 10:45	Link #684
MikeFudo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Once Shrade said that he has to meet a shadow angel on Altair planet, but I can't remember the angel's name (it happened many episodes ago), anyone knows? I just had a flashback when I saw Shrade going to the angels' planet in the 20th episode.

2012-05-13, 18:30	Link #695
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	MikeFudo: you're probably thinking of the bit where Schrade says his life is being played with by an abductor known as disease. I remember there being some confusion because the subs got that one wrong and had it as "abductor known as Yamai" or something, leading to some interesting but ultimately misguided speculation. If that's it I think it's in episode 5 or 6, like part of Cayenne and Schrade's conversation during the group date episode iirc.