Penguin Drum - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[mysh]

But where is the PotC? And what about obtaining the Penguindrum?

It seems to me that eps. 1-12 were a completely different series altogether.

[ndqanh_vn]

So,...Sanetoshi is the leader of the Penguin group and he's dead?

Should I take his existence as one of many surreal details in the series?

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by mysh

But where is PoC? And what about obtaining the Penguindrum?

It seems to me that eps. 1-12 were a completely different series altogether.

I'm starting to feel a little like that but I'm pretty sure it will all be tied together in the last few episodes.
While I still want Ringo to become more involved with the story again (still sticking to my pet theory that she's starting to burn up in the OP, not that the flames are vanishing, and will end up sacrificing herself to put the world back on the right track before Momoka and Sanetoshi meddled) but it was great to see Himari and Shouman, especially Shouma, go out and start making plans of their own. Judging by the next episode preview it looks like Himari and Masako have really teamed up and the black and white bears from the OP/Survival Strategy bits have finally shown up, maybe they're supposed to represent Himari and the PoC?

[Zaresh]

I'm in the "loving it" team.

About Shouma saying "I'm sorry", I think he says so because he thinks it's his fault that kanba left, that kanba is now doing BAD things (with capitals) and it's because he wanted to stay oblivious, that his family is now forever broken and that he can't do anything to cure her illness. I feel sorry for the dude, maybe because I can understand him a little.

My bet for the next episode is that, even so, even if he's feeling so guilty right know, he is going to do something, at least to save himari and stop Kanba (but probably not for saving his "fake" family). And probably because of Ringo. I think he's going to visit Masako and make a pact with her (he, too). If she stops Kanba from do wrong things, she can get him back to the Natsumes. If she can help him to find the penguindrum, he can help her in obtaining the other half of the diary. Meanwhile, we're going to learn what's doing Kanba and how much insane he is. That's my guess, or that's what I would write if I were the writer. But nevermind, It's hard to tell what's thinking a talented person like Ikuhara lol.

Ah! I almost forgot. I think those black bunnies of destruction or whatever are the men in black, not the children. It makes more sense, imho.

[Kazu-kun]

I can't help going back to what the PotC told Kanba back in episode 17:

Kanba: "It can't be me, right? I can't be the one to save Himari anymore, right?"

PotC: "You can do it. I can tell. Because the Penguindrum is... it is your..."

In the novel the PotC also tell him to no let himself be misled.

My prediction is very simple. Ringo and her fabulous diary are a misdirection. Ringo will probably help Shouma snap out of his self-loathing and go save his family (yes, family. I think Shouma needs to embrace the idea that Kanba and Himari are his true family even if they're not related). But I don't think Ringo will use the diary. I don't think it will be used period.

And if the PotC's words are true, and right now I think they are, Kanba will be the one to save the day at the very end, as least as much as it can be saved.

EDIT: here's a penguindrum interview with Ikuhara:

http://penguindrum.livejournal.com/44413.html#cutid1

After reading it I'm a little more hopeful about the remaining Penguidrum episodes. It made me see the series from a slightly different perspective, which works better for me than what I thought he was trying to tell at first.

[ars89]

Like how Ringo stuck up for them in the beginning, too bad she's getting less and less screen time. Lol Kanba sees dead people. Expected the fight between the brothers, but didn't think Shouma would kick Himari out. Like how she joined together with Masako to save Kanba. So Sanetoshi is also dead, but currently runs the group?

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by ars89

So Sanetoshi is also dead, but currently runs the group?

Could Sanetoshi somehow be Masako's grandfather? When he was talking to the real doctor, they were sharing a platter of blowfish, after all. And for that matter, what role does the doctor play since he seems to have some connection to Kiga as well?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Could Sanetoshi somehow be Masako's grandfather? When he was talking to the real doctor, they were sharing a platter of blowfish, after all. And for that matter, what role does the doctor play since he seems to have some connection to Kiga as well?

The doctor said Sanetoshi was his assistant, so I don't think it could be Masako's grandfather. The blowfish is probably more Ikuhara-misdirection.

[ookamigirl]

Himari is slowly getting to know the truth.
The journalist sure was snooping around a lot.
Kanba is on a dangerous path.
Doing everything by himself may not be the best option in the end.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by mysh

But where is PotC? And what about obtaining the Penguindrum?

It seems to me that eps. 1-12 were a completely different series altogether.

Ikuhara’s is not a mind that thinks in straight lines, I know (the subway map is a beautiful metaphor for this and so much else) but I’d like to think that everything that happens in MPD is at least connected, and not just by a deux ex machina at the end to try and tie up all the loose threads. There’s still time, but he’s set himself a challenge that’s going to be difficult to meet. Ikuhara links the episodes using that subway map, but in this I’m reminded instead of a meandering river. Sometimes after much wandering, the bends of a river connect, and the meander is “abandoned” as the river now flows by the more direct course. Could the first cour be an abandoned meander?

[Cao Ni Ma]

It looks like Sanetoshi can just insert himself into the past or something, its the only way that the doctor's reaction and picture makes sense. Did he switch tracks on the fly?

Also a fun thing. The antarctic team they were on was 36. The clock at the shop stopped at 1:15:30 which is 1.3.6. Coincidence or something else

[mellomarie]

i personally enjoyed this episode.

so kanba is disturbed and very tragic-i feel like he's so fixated on himari not ONLY because he loves her but he wants to save her because he couldn't save kenzan/chiemi (and also his biological father died as well).

i really enjoyed himari this episode and it's quite sad that she's left to die. i really do think the end of the season will be the characters coming to terms with her death, as sad as that is. she did say she wasn't unhappy and i feel like that's important.

ringo is a BAMF

poor shoma

so what is sanetoshi exactly? a god? a ghost? was he purposely manipulating the doctor? it's endearing how he talks about momoka though, i gotta admit.

[Lota]

What a gorgeous episode! It was superb in every way: the story, the music, the animation... I was blown away. The last two episodes didn't really appeal to me all that much, but this was really something.

Himari and Ringo's little conversation was so cute. I loved the flashback, how everything was so dull and Kanba and Shouma painted their house (/life) with beautiful rich colours.

And so many revelations, Takakura parents are dead, Sanetoshi is dead (or something), it also once again reaffirmed to me that PoC is Momoka, and she and Sanetoshi are fighting each other from the shadows, using the Takakura siblings as their pawns.

Kanba and Shouma's fighting scene was just amazing, unlike some of you, I have been expecting Shouma to snap at Kanba for a while.

Yuri and Tabuki! If Ikuhara kills one of them, I won't forgive him! I'm sort of hoping that Tabuki shielded Yuri from the knife, but I hope he survives.

Aaaand, both the scenes with Himari and Shouma and the flashback with Himari and Kamba were very touching.

I miss PoC... But I think we will see her soon. For the last couple of episodes, Sanetoshi has been making his moves, I think now it's time for PoC to make hers.

And the music, oh the music! And the animation! Definitely one of my favourite episodes.

Oh, I read the interview. So the Penguindrum is not just a concept, but something that will appear, huh? Looking forward to it

I love this series...

[SoFarGone]

The families sure suck in this show.

[Haak]

It's come to the point where every episode is delivering a wham in someway or another and every episode I'm left absolutely speechless. I can't believe Kanba finally crossed the line like that. And the fight with Shoma was incredibly emotional. I hope what Kanba said about Shoma not being a brother to him anymore was all talk, because it would be terribly tragic for the trio's bonds to be broken beyond repair (though it's painfully clear that it'll never be back to what it used to be).

[ThereminVox]

I was one of those disappointed in the last two episodes, but 21 was glorious. Sho's fight with Kanba in particular was heartbreaking, but awesome.

As suspected, Shouma is the only son of the Takakuras, and they're almost certainly gone for good. He created the family we see in the show, and now it's all falling apart.

Kanba is the one to deliver the majority of the wham in this episode. He's been talking to a lot of ghosts lately, though some may not be ghosts in the most literal sense. His departure from Sho suggests a major shift in how we are to perceive his allegiance, and sure enough he's seen involved in an assassination a few minutes later. He's now fully grown into the shoes of his adoptive parents, and I suspect that he occupies a similar position within Kiga by now. He may very well be the main antagonist for Shouma and Himari from here on, well-meaning though he is.

Along those lines, I recall that in the flashback of the subway attack, Papa Takakura described the incident as their "survival strategy", and now Kanba is in deep with Kiga, planning something that he hopes will ensure Himari's survival. I doubt that's a coincidence, and if it isn't, for whose sake was the attack 16 years ago carried out?

Ringo is probably the key to stopping whatever Kiga has planned. As such, PotC will likely be seen again soon, since they are apparently linked in one way or another. The diary may come back into focus soon as well: Yuri and Tabuki are attacked, presumably by Kiga, and if Sanatoshi is pulling the strings there, then they may have outlived their usefulness to him. Of course, that's a lot of "ifs". We don't even know who took the knife yet. But Sanatoshi has all but admitted that the diary is a potential weak spot in his plans. I can't imagine he would just let the two halves float around outside of his control.

[Kirarakim]

Loved this episode but then I also love episode 19 and 20 (although I do think maybe the "fated one" thing with Shouma did come a little later in the scheme of the story).

Favorite scenes in this episode were definitely how the house & Himari's room came to look like that & the brother's fight (which was one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series for me).

And I totally did not guess that the parents were dead. Although as others have pointed out the fact that the mother did not have a scar should have been a clue.

Originally Posted by mellomarie

so kanba is disturbed and very tragic-i feel like he's so fixated on himari not ONLY because he loves her but he wants to save her because he couldn't save kenzan/chiemi (and also his biological father died as well).

Good observation and actually it makes me think that Kanba is supposed to be Giovanni & Himari is actually supposed to be the Campanella of the story. Although I still doubt it's a straight connection like that because I am not sure where that leaves Shouma.


It's Shouma in a way who created the "fake family" (okay he didn't bring Kanba in like he did Himari) but I feel while he was trying to create this happy family atmosphere for Himari's sake it was also for his sake as well. He lost both his brother and sister in this episode because he didn't fight & just gave up. He tried to stop Kanba but then he gave up and tried to send Himari away and he thinks it's his fault that things turned out this way. Just seeing him look at the photographs of them together really broke my heart. Shouma fight for your family! I am sure Ringo will be there to help. Perhaps she is already part of the family too.

[Kazu-kun]

So, in these few days my perception of this series has changed a lot. A few lines from the BD interview stuck to me like glue and I've been thinking quite a bit about it:

Spoiler for ikuhara interview:

Ikuhara: "And so, the kind of story I want to see right now is that of a family attempting to connect. That interests me more than love stories do. "Why am I here together with him in this house? Why is she here with me?" That sort of thing.

Families are made up of members of both the same and opposite sex. I think a meaning behind that family's connection is gradually created, which goes beyond just that of the physical. Sexuality doesn't have much to do with it. Or rather, even if there are sexual relationships involved, the family relationship keeps on existing regardless…"

[...]

Ikuhara: "The student movement was about rejecting the nation. But at the same time, it was a rejection of their parents' generation, a rejection of their own families. Forming your own community through rejecting another…defending your own position through rejection of the outmoded… I don't want to make a story like that.

Rather, what I want to show is the feeling of: "We still love our mother and father who did those things, even if they may have been wrong to do them.""

This changed the way I was interpreting the show. Well, the fact that I needed to read what the author was getting at in order to "get it" might be the writing's fault (let's face it, it's all over the place). But I don't want to talk about that right now.

The way I see it, the three "Takakura siblings," Kanba, Shouma, and Himari, want to stick together and be a family above everything else. Episode 21 begins with Himari's recollection about some of her happiest memories as family not only to show how different things are right now, but also to drive home these kids are the happiest only when they are together.

But of course, as always, there are obstacles. True to Ikuhara though, in this series basically all these obstacles are internal. They comprise the self-imposed "curse" the Takakura have brought upon themselves:

- Himari is unhappy due to the Triple-H fall out, and loves Shouma romantically.

- Kanba loves Himari romantically, and idolizes his adoptive parents because he was deserted by his biological father and his grandfather was an ass.

- Shouma hates his parents for being terrorist. Now also hates Kanba for doing the same. And of course, he also hates himself for bringing Himari into a terrorist family.


Himari has made the first positive step by going after Kanba despite her personal feelings for Shou. The main issue is Shouma's internal conflict though.

Let's be honest. If Shouma doesn't find it in him to forgive his parents for what they did, why would he forgive Kanba who's now doing the same? But if he doesn't forgive him, he won't be able to save him, and that would be the end of his family. That is the main conflict of the show. Shouma needs to accept that being a Takakura, being the son of his parents, is not a "curse", no matter what they did. He needs to accept that fate and become stronger, so that he can go reclaim his family.

As everyone else, I'm banking on Ringo to deliver the wake-up call that Shouma so desperately needs right now. I doubt anyone else beside her could touch Shouma's heart at this point, so it gotta be her.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

[Kirarakim]

I just hope Kanba admits he didn't mean what he said about Shouma in this last episode.

I think it is easy for me to see that Himari cares about both Sho & Kan and that Shouma cares about both Himari & Kanba. I want to see that Kanba cares about Shouma.

Of course Masako is also family and I am wondering how she will become a part of this all.

And like I said previously I feel Ringo already feels a part of the Takakura family at least when it comes to Shouma & Himari since she loves them both. And I agree that I think it will be Ringo who gets through to Shouma.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I want to see that Kanba cares about Shouma.

Well, I don't think Kanba kept Shouma in the dark all this time only because he wanted to be the one to save Himari. I think he genuinely was protecting Shouma too.