Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Tsuyoshi]

I'm gonna do a review of the arc as a whole this time, namely because this arc just didn't do it for me the way previous ones did. For one thing, I have to agree with Guardian Enzo here. Yosuke's not at fault here at all. The only thing I'd blame him for was for being a stingy supervisor but he's learned from that mistake and he gains my respect for that. If only someone I know would do the same. What this arc didn't do for me was how it conveyed Yuina's motivations (or lack thereof) to follow people's expectations. I found myself in complete agreement with her when she said people can't do the job properly if they don't like it. It's amazing because she's never worked before and she already knows that much.

What I did not like about this arc was the fact that it gave the message that following life the way you want to isn't the correct way. It doesn't mean to say that it's entirely wrong, but that it's not the best choice compared to the alternative. What the arc also seems to forget is that Yuina and the gang are 16 to 17 years old. That's still quite early to decide what you want to do with life, so Yuina's stance is quite reasonable and justified.

So in the end, what this arc did for me was raise my liking for Yuina 100-fold, or would have if she hadn't decided to go along with what everyone is doing (in which case it raised my liking for her 10-fold), but it didn't really get me in the mood to like (or dislike) any of the other characters any more than I already do. 6.5/10

[Reckoner]

Guys. Okada said this anime is about learning to love your work.

If the anime's POV of this arc told us anything it was simply that Yuina didn't understand what it means to enjoy one's own work. It didn't paint her as someone bad, but it painted as someone ignorant of what drives Ohana to work so hard even on a student vacation on this.

It shows how Ohana has come a long way from the start of this show, the girl who didn't understand a single thing about work at the start has now come to both love and appreciate what she does in her life.

The episode was never trying to tell us that Yuina was a bad person, but that her view point was merely narrow minded. She saw the work as hard, and didn't understand that people like Yosuke or Ohana could truly love this hard work that up until this point she saw as less than attractive.

[Archon_Wing]

Aye, I don't mind Ohana's rash attitude, but this episode made me sick on how much of a busybody she was. It's not the the workers fault that management was incompetent but oh no she's gonna lecture them herp derp.

I seriously hope she doesn't get Otonashi/Kanade endless martyr syndrome. You know we're off to a bad start when Minko's the sensible one. Also, notice how Nako and her are blushing throughout the episode; they're clearly embarassed by Ohana's behavior.

Obviously if they're gonna take Ohana down this route, the writers need to be slapped by grandma too.

The later half wasn't too bad. Yuina's acting faker than a Chinese anime knockoff, but I guess it was interesting on how much she wants this relationship to happen but she wants to nudge her love off the inn concept. So is she gonna force herself off or not? Eh... sure. Some back and forth, but it was getting boring.

So for some reason we still have 5 minutes left in this episode, and we get treated to a fanservice scene. Actually I found this to be the best part of the episode, since Ohana gives us a nice speech. I actually ended up caring more for Minko and Ohana fighting in the bath. Best line is Nako's line on how to breathe.

Not my favorite episode, but not repulsive either. It did what it had to do to settle whatever situation we had here, but I just didn't really care for it. 5/10

[Tsuyoshi]

I never thought it was trying to portray Yuina as a bad person, I just didn't like how they interpreted her view as incorrect. Granted, that is the theme of this anime, but it's not like her opinion wasn't in line with it.

[FMeral16]

Looks like we're not getting some Nako time in the next episode either =(

Also looks like Ohana's picked up some management skills. And I definitely agree with what Reckoner said. I also don't think the purpose was to make Yuina seem bad, or that she shouldn't want to do something besides work at an inn. Just that she needs to understand what it's like to work before she can pass it over simply because it looks hard.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

I never thought it was trying to portray Yuina as a bad person, I just didn't like how they interpreted her view as incorrect. Granted, that is the theme of this anime, but it's not like her opinion wasn't in line with it.

I'm not sure what about her viewpoint was interpreted as incorrect by the show.

Yuina was someone who said that you have to love your work to be able to do it well. Ohana loves her work. Ohana shows her abilities to get the job done. Yosuke talks about how he want sa girl who'd work with her at the inn. Yuina who doesn't understand what's to love about this job that she just sees as hard gets jealous of Ohana. She works a little and gains a little appreciation for the work that Ohana loves. In the end, she's still going to do what she wants to do.

The ones who were portrayed as incorrect were the waitresses who quit because really, that was an immature thing to do, to just leave on the spot.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by serebe

-Ohana was as insane as ever (how many times has this pattern occurred already? You know, "Oh crap, there is a problem!" --> "Time to go break into wherever and get everything to work my way!")

Yeah, I must say that is starting to get a bit annoying; it reminds me of shounen protagonists using guts and perseverance to win the day =0\. One thing I loved about the Tokyo/Satsuki arc was that it showed Ohana that no matter how arduous and diligent you are about something, you can't always change it. You need to know what you can and cannot do, and the limitations of whatever abilities you have. For me, it really gave a sense of realism in this story(well, before Satsuki caved in and went with them). Clearly, doing inn work is well within her abilities, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything would work out perfectly.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I'm not sure what about her viewpoint was interpreted as incorrect by the show.

Yuina was someone who said that you have to love your work to be able to do it well. Ohana loves her work. Ohana shows her abilities to get the job done. Yosuke talks about how he want sa girl who'd work with her at the inn. Yuina who doesn't understand what's to love about this job that she just sees as hard gets jealous of Ohana. She works a little and gains a little appreciation for the work that Ohana loves. In the end, she's still going to do what she wants to do.

The ones who were portrayed as incorrect were the waitresses who quit because really, that was an immature thing to do, to just leave on the spot.

Well, the show seems to repeatedly hammer in the fact that those devotees to the inn are so devoted and hardworking. So while you see this hardworking SHOUNEN WILLPOWER Ohana slaving away and then you see Yuina kinda lazily floating around and trying to talk her potential fiance out of it while possessing a indirect, vague approach, while Ohana takes the good and honest approach... and then you see how Youske's like "I love people like that" (Did Okada just take over his body and start talking?), it's kinda clear what the show wants to make you favor in addition to the scene of the lazy, irresponsible, not dedicated workers in the beginning.

So naturally Yuina's terrible for not wanting to work at an inn, shame on her, everyone else is doing it! So selfish huh!

[ReddyRedWolf]

I'm amazed the side characters in Yuina's arc show what Ko lacks.

1. Grow a spine. Be assertive like the guy confessing to Mimko. Don't count on being best friends will get you Ohana as there are other fish in the sea.

2. Be ambitious like Yuina's boyfriend. Sure you may be just satisfied with just being a part timer for now but you can't attract Ohana just being a mushroom at Tokyo. Ohana already has a career and being groomed as the heir of an inn. What do you have to show for it with a similar drive. She complimented Yuina's boyfriend even if he has people skills problems. Cause she appreciates industriousness and ambition. It also helps that her Grandmother might not slap you for trying to get her granddaughter if the time comes.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Red

I'm amazed the side characters in Yuina's arc show what Ko lacks.

1. Grow a spine. Be assertive like the guy confessing to Mimko. Don't count on being best friends will get you Ohana as there are other fish in the sea.

2. Be ambitious like Yuina's boyfriend. Sure you may be just satisfied with just being a part timer for now but you can't attract Ohana just being a mushroom at Tokyo. Ohana already has a career and being groomed as the heir of an inn. What do you have to show for it with a similar drive. She complimented Yuina's boyfriend even if he has people skills problems. Cause she appreciates industriousness and ambition. It also helps that her Grandmother might not slap you for trying to get her granddaughter if the time comes.

Huh? That was the case in the very beginning, but seeing that she wouldn't understand his feelings before she left for Tokyo, he confessed to her. That was the first episode. He's already said his feelings for her, so it's all on Ohana. Ko doesn't need/want to pressure her into an answer, which is why he is simply waiting for a reply.

And Ko seems quite ambitious. We've seen him working multiple part-time jobs(maybe not all at once, but I wouldn't be surprised). He is certainly a hard worker, it's just that the story has yet to directly focus on his day-to-day life to know what he is actually doing. Ohana was FORCED to go to her grandmother's and made to work, with no direct willingness to have a job. Yes, Ohana's accepted that as her new home and job now, but it's not like she initialized or envisioned herself being the head of an inn. It's more commendable to WANT to work hard with knowing you don't need to(that is, if there isn't a reason for him to HAVE to work; we don't really know this yet), rather than being made to work and practically having a job and future career of an inn owner tossed into your lap.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by frubam

Huh? That was the case in the very beginning, but seeing that she wouldn't understand his feelings before she left for Tokyo, he confessed to her. That was the first episode. He's already said his feelings for her, so it's all on Ohana. Ko doesn't need/want to pressure her into an answer, which is why he is simply waiting for a reply.

He ran as a wimp Twice! No it is not on Ohana as the guy isn't showing effort to win her. Confession is one thing actual Courtship is another.

If he is just waiting an answer from afar cock sure she'll say yes that is not courtship. That is conceit.

Girls want to know they are wanted by potential partners. It is the basics of courtship.

Which is why I say he has to Grow a Spine and be ready even if Ohana says no to him.

It isn't Ohana that is procrastinating it is Ko. As she isn't sure Ko is dedicated enough.

Originally Posted by frubam

And Ko seems quite ambitious. We've seen him working multiple part-time jobs(maybe not all at once, but I wouldn't be surprised). He is certainly a hard worker, it's just that the story has yet to directly focus on his day-to-day life to know what he is actually doing. Ohana was FORCED to go to her grandmother's and made to work, with no direct willingness to have a job. Yes, Ohana's accepted that as her new home and job now, but it's not like she initialized or envisioned herself being the head of an inn. It's more commendable to WANT to work hard with knowing you don't need to(that is, if there isn't a reason for him to HAVE to work; we don't really know this yet), rather than being made to work and practically having a job and future career of an inn owner tossed into your lap.

And Ohana doesn't know a thing about his ambition as he has Zero Presence both when she was with him as a friend and away from him. What is his long term goals that would attract a girl to him? What is dreams just for himself. His motivations.

Ohana only knows he does part time jobs. Otherwise he's a stranger to her.

Let me tell you guys a thing that goes in women's minds. They want emotional security. Compared to guys who are cerebral women are emotional.

A confident man creates a feeling of trust from the girl.

And Ko lacks confidence to push through. Hence in the end Ohana may go for an older more confident man who she feels secure with.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by frubam

Huh? That was the case in the very beginning, but seeing that she wouldn't understand his feelings before she left for Tokyo, he confessed to her. That was the first episode. He's already said his feelings for her, so it's all on Ohana. Ko doesn't need/want to pressure her into an answer, which is why he is simply waiting for a reply.

Except you're leaving out the part where he ran away from Ohana after confessing and didn't see her off before she left the next day. That's putting someone in a rather awkward position if they're unsure of their feelings to the person that confessed to them. Ko was REALLY pushing his luck that Ohana liked him ALLOT with that mess of a confession, cause a girl who didn't like him as much probably wouldn't be stringing this out like this. She'd probably just reject him over the phone. Ko is lucky that he has a girl willing to keep him in his mind for this long.


I guess that's the thing about Ko and Ohana that doesn't really inspire me. The idea that Ko's done all he needs to do, and that it's now time for Ohana to take care of everything. That doesn't quite sit well with me.


There's also the fact that the divide that exists between peoples interest on the show (Romance, or Hard Work and guts), makes it hard for them to reflect on the differences, and the implications thereof, between the different philosophies that get expressed. Ko's passive, round about tactic of letting Ohana come to her own conclusions about their relationship seems counter intuitive to the philosophy that gets expressed in the rest of the show. It seems that everyone is involved in festing things up...except for Ko.

Originally Posted by frubam

And Ko seems quite ambitious. We've seen him working multiple part-time jobs(maybe not all at once, but I wouldn't be surprised). He is certainly a hard worker, it's just that the story has yet to directly focus on his day-to-day life to know what he is actually doing. Ohana was FORCED to go to her grandmother's and made to work, with no direct willingness to have a job. Yes, Ohana's accepted that as her new home and job now, but it's not like she initialized or envisioned herself being the head of an inn. It's more commendable to WANT to work hard with knowing you don't need to(that is, if there isn't a reason for him to HAVE to work; we don't really know this yet), rather than being made to work and practically having a job and future career of an inn owner tossed into your lap.

Ohana didn't specifically choose to start working at the inn. But she did opt into making it more than just some job she had to hold until she graduated from High School. Sui pretty handily shot down any notion that Ohana would be getting the inn thrown in her lap on the very first day she arrived. And it's not to surprising that Ohana isn't immediately thinking about trying to take over the inn. She HAS only been working here six months, not as the Okami's granddaughter set to inherit the inn, but as a normal employee. She's also probably still in a bit of a *missing the forest for the tree* mentality, since she's still greatly enamored with the job she has currently.

(That, and Ohana probably considers it something that her old oblivious self would do. Trying to presumptuously act like she could make the inn her own)


...Not that Ohana isn't considering it on some subconscious level. I mean, she seems to view the act of becoming an Okami of an inn in rather intimately romantic terms.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

He ran as a wimp Twice! No it is not on Ohana as the guy isn't showing effort to win her. Confession is one thing actual Courtship is another.

If he is just waiting an answer from afar cock sure she'll say yes that is not courtship. That is conceit.

Girls want to know they are wanted by potential partners. It is the basics of courtship.

Which is why I say he has to Grow a Spine and be ready even if Ohana says no to him.

It isn't Ohana that is procrastinating it is Ko. As she isn't sure Ko is dedicated enough.

I don't see how he ISN'T dedicated. He confessed and is patiently waiting on an answer. A(cute) girl confessed to him and he rejected her saying he already has someone(Ohana) he likes. Is that not proof that he wants to be with her? He even told this to Ohana when she asked, which pretty much indirectly tells her he's waiting for an answer. I think this alone proves that Ko has done what he can. Even Ohana has said herself she was stringing him along, even though she eventually knew of her own feelings.

And Ohana doesn't know a thing about his ambition as he has Zero Presence both when she was with him as a friend and away from him. What is his long term goals that would attract a girl to him? What is dreams just for himself. His motivations.

Ohana only knows he does part time jobs. Otherwise he's a stranger to her.

Let me tell you guys a thing that goes in women's minds. They want emotional security. Compared to guys who are cerebral women are emotional.

A confident man creates a feeling of trust from the girl.

And Ko lacks confidence to push through. Hence in the end Ohana may go for an older more confident man who she feels secure with.

There's no way he has zero presence when she thinks about him every other episode. He remains a big part of her heart, regardless of the distance or amount of contact they currently have. I would hardly say Ohana thinks of him as a "stranger".

We wouldn't know anything about him since no episode focused directly on him. Heck, we didn't really know anything about Yuina's dreams and goals(or lack thereof) until now, and she's had more screen time than Ko has. We also don't know what Ohana knows about Ko. Apparently, based on the interactions of the first episode, they probably have spent quite a bit of time together, of which we only see one scene of normalcy between the two before the confession part. Since this is all you(we) have seen, you may not think much of him, but Ohana may have had many experiences with him not yet told that gives reason for the way she feels.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I'm sorry, but you're leaving out the part where he ran away from Ohana after confessing and didn't see her off before she left the next day. That's putting someone in a rather awkward position if they're unsure of their feelings to the person that confessed to them. Ko was REALLY pushing his luck that Ohana liked him ALLOT with that mess of a confession, cause a girl who didn't like him as much probably wouldn't be stringing this out like this. She'd probably just reject him over the phone. Ko is lucky that he has a girl willing to keep him in his mind for this long.


I guess that's the thing about Ko and Ohana that doesn't really inspire me. The idea that Ko's done all he needs to do, and that it's now time for Ohana to take care of everything. That doesn't quite sit well with me.

True, but I'd think just as awkward to visit the girl you confessed to at the last minute as she departs, since that puts pressure on the girl to give an answer; an answer which she def wasn't sure of. One could say Ko was lucky, but I would assume that if she didn't care about him like that and immediately replied "No" to it, he would have moved on. He still had that store clerk girl, so he'd still have a relationship chance either way.

And I wouldn't say Ohana has to take care of 'everything'. A relationship is a two-person street after all. But no matter how many times he says "I like you, I love you" to her, he can't do anything more until he receives some kind of reply from her. After that, if its yes, then it's up to the both of them to keep the relationship strong; not just Ohana's.

Ohana didn't specifically choose to start working at the inn. But she did opt into making it more than just some job she had to hold until she graduated from High School. Sui pretty handily shot down any notion that Ohana would be getting the inn thrown in her lap on the very first day she arrived. And it's not to surprising that Ohana isn't immediately thinking about trying to take over the inn. She HAS only been working here six months, not as the Okami's granddaughter set to inherit the inn, but as a normal employee. She's also probably still in a bit of a *missing the forest for the tree* mentality, since she's still greatly enamored with the job she has currently.

(That, and Ohana probably considers it something that her old oblivious self would do. Trying to presumptuously act like she could make the inn her own)


...Not that Ohana isn't considering it on some subconscious level. I mean, she seems to view the act of becoming an Okami of an inn in rather intimately romantic terms.

Yes, you're right. While I did neglect to mention that angle to exaggerate my point further, my whole point was to simply say what Ko is doing is ambitious in its own way, since its possible he wasn't forced to work and actively sought it out on his own. Also, to state that NOT having some future dream plans does not discount him from being ambitious.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

What I did not like about this arc was the fact that it gave the message that following life the way you want to isn't the correct way. It doesn't mean to say that it's entirely wrong, but that it's not the best choice compared to the alternative. What the arc also seems to forget is that Yuina and the gang are 16 to 17 years old. That's still quite early to decide what you want to do with life, so Yuina's stance is quite reasonable and justified.

Err, this isn't the message at all in my opinion. If anything, the message is that you can't decide whether you'd like or hate to do something without trying it first. Yuina's stance seemed very smart and mature to me last week, until she claimed this episode that she doesn't work because "she chooses not to", and that she apparently only wanted a job to gain recognition and fuel her ego a bit more (creator, artist, designer... I'm surprised she didn't say actress or singer). The only reason she dismissed following a carrer at an inn is because it seemed like hard work, the other jobs she brought up probably seem like easy work from an outside perspective. Simply put, the true reason she didn't want to inherit the inn had nothing to do with liking or not liking the work, she was just a bit lazy and spoiled and didn't want to do something she deemed tiring and unrewarding.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by frubam

I don't see how he ISN'T dedicated. He confessed and is patiently waiting on an answer. A(cute) girl confessed to him and he rejected her saying he already has someone(Ohana) he likes. Is that not proof that he wants to be with her? He even told this to Ohana when she asked, which pretty much indirectly tells her he's waiting for an answer. I think this alone proves that Ko has done what he can. Even Ohana has said herself she was stringing him along, even though she eventually knew of her own feelings.

He does it half assed. It doesn't matter that he thinks he is dedicated what matters is that girl see that he is by actually making an effort to court her.

Confession is just Step 0. Step 1 is doing his best to win her by courting her. He can't expect her to fall in love at the drop of the hat cause they were best friends.

Originally Posted by frubam

There's no way he has zero presence when she thinks about him every other episode. He remains a big part of her heart, regardless of the distance or amount of contact they currently have. I would hardly say Ohana thinks of him as a "stranger".

We wouldn't know anything about him since no episode focused directly on him. Heck, we didn't really know anything about Yuina's dreams and goals(or lack thereof) until now, and she's had more screen time than Ko has. We also don't know what Ohana knows about Ko. Apparently, based on the interactions of the first episode, they probably have spent quite a bit of time together, of which we only see one scene of normalcy between the two before the confession part. Since this is all you(we) have seen, you may not think much of him, but Ohana may have had many experiences with him not yet told that gives reason for the way she feels.

Zero presence means he didn't do squat to impress Ohana or hint while they were together that he likes her. Only on the last minute and he didn't face her afterward.

It comes back to Ko being spineless, un-confident, and procrastinating idiot.

And I wouldn't say Ohana has to take care of 'everything'. A relationship is a two-person street after all. But no matter how many times he says "I like you, I love you" to her, he can't do anything more until he receives some kind of reply from her. After that, if its yes, then it's up to the both of them to keep the relationship strong; not just Ohana's.

If Ko wants Ohana he'll have to work for it. Hell look at Grandma Sui she got rejected for five times before she finally got Grandpa.



Irony that Ohana thought when she first met Yuina a rival has arrived. In terms of being granddaughters of the inn managers. Yuina's boyfriend saying Ohana is his type made her jealous and recognized Ohana as a unwitting rival. She decided to work hard to marry the guy. But not necessarily run an inn but both the relationship and her career choice.

More so with Minko as Ohana is her unwitting rival to Tohru. Tohru definitely likes Ohana.

Difference Yuina is doing something while Minko doesn't have a nerve yet to do anything.

It just illustrates Ohana is a catch and Ko is freaking lax idiot that nobody would get her when he isn't around.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by frubam

it reminds me of shounen protagonists using guts and perseverance to win the day =0\.

It's very weird seeing this sentence, full of words that have such positive connotations, described as a negative thing.

[~Yami~]

give 8/10

I just don't believe that Ohana isn't matured at all... C'mon! there is another cooler way to offer your help....

Yuina's jealous face is priceless... hahaha.... I will be more excited if this show turn in some complex love-triangle that involves Minchi and Yuina (both are the most popular girl and got their love stolen by Ohana)... xD
I need more Yuina in the future episode

what the heck with the preview??? can't get it at all....

[Grey]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

If Ko wants Ohana he'll have to work for it. Hell look at Grandma Sui she got rejected for five times before she finally got Grandpa.

Hahaha, Ohana and Kou are both too considerate of each other. Kou didn't want to push Ohana, and Ohana didn't want to take advantage of Kou. If either of them were more selfish they might be together. Or if Ohana actually said to Kou what she said to her mother and grandmother.

That reminds me. The episode 14 scene with the rejected guys against the sunset was pretty funny and cool. But it's good to see Yosuke or Yuina didn't become part of the "rejected people against the sunset" crew. Not yet anyway!

[FMeral16]

Ko wasn't even mentioned in this episode and yet there's still a debate about him

[Guardian Enzo]

LOL, yet another episode thread hijacked for Kou-bashing... And he didn't even get a flashback this week. Amazing.