2011-05-03, 13:04 | Link #1 |
Eternity Wish
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Sky
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Chauvinism, patriotism, nationalism
I really don't see why many people say "I'm proud to be, say, Italian/ Chinese/French" blah... To me it's just vanity. You can't control where you're born or what you are. If someone bears excessive pride in his origin/nationality, it only alienates them from other people.
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2011-05-03, 13:26 | Link #3 |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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Even if you can't control where you're born, it's still the culture, community, and people that you grew up with and have known all your life. Why wouldn't people be attached to them?
Not that excessive nationalism doesn't exist, but I see nothing wrong with a sense of community/national identity. Otherwise, you'd be alienating yourself not just from the global scene, but also from your next door neighbors. ... also, where does chauvinism come into this?
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2011-05-03, 13:32 | Link #4 |
Disabled By Request
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This.
I myself don't see anything wrong with patriotism. It is wrong when you try to force it on others because it is your home you're proud of, but others have a home of their own. Regardless of whether or not it's your choice, wouldn't you be proud of the home you live in? Regardless of whether or not it's your choice, don't you love the family that gave birth to you and raised you with their utmost care? I already have a family, so I can appreciate it when someone speaks fondly of their family. It's the same for someone else's country, and I can appreciate it if someone from another country speaks fondly of their origins. However, I would not appreciate it if someone tried to force me into their family, tried to enforce their culture onto me and forget that with which I grew up. P.S. I'm mighty proud to be Italian |
2011-05-03, 13:39 | Link #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Quote:
You shouldn't be unnecessarily proud of something you have no real control over (I'm not proud of the evolutionary/genetic advantage I have over lesser mammals, but I am damn happy for said advantage), but being proud or even excited over something you can change (who doesn't like remolding or helping to remodel their "home"? ) is very different. Fact of the matter is, we can change our homes (whether by moving, or enacting social change, etc), and any changes we create are worthy of pride (or shame). That being said, excessive pride in anything will alienate you from others. (p.s. don't confuse pride with arrogance.) Last edited by james0246; 2011-05-03 at 14:53. |
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2011-05-03, 14:02 | Link #7 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Oh, jingosim...that makes more sense in context.
It is easier to be proud on a national or regional scale than on a planetary scale....also there is no one else (currently) that wouldn't be classed as a Terran, Earther, or whatever term you want to use for a human from Earth.
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2011-05-03, 15:02 | Link #8 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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I love and enjoy my ethnic (Irish) and national (American) identities... but yes, I agree that the term 'pride' is silly. I don't see why someone would be proud of something they didn't accomplish themselves. But having solidarity, interest, and passion for your roots/family history is just fine by me and helps bring people together imo.
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2011-05-03, 16:46 | Link #9 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'd probably list a string of equally "childish petty" incidents in her country's history that she probably doesn't know about because she didn't pay attention in her history class. Baka....
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2011-05-03, 17:03 | Link #10 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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God-damned British! Occupies our Island for hundreds of years, and their "famine queen" commits de facto genocide by doing nothing to stop a famine that killed 1 million.
Then they split our country in 2 by not granting independence to the northern counties. And they wipe out our native language. Meanwhile our culture produces great music, poetry and literature. So great that it fills half the national curriculim! No greater country then Ireland. We have Joyce, Shaw, Wilde, Heaney, Kavanagh, and more! And the British? Evil Bastards, all of em. Or so the rhetoric goes... |
2011-05-03, 17:06 | Link #11 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Ask yourself. Why do borders exist? They exist everywhere. National borders. Local borders. Heck, even your own house has borders - either unmarked or marked by something (fences, shrubbery, etc.). The Internet itself is no exception to the natural tendency of establishing borders. People do take pride in the community aspect of being... "whatever".
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2011-05-03, 17:37 | Link #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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You can be proud of your country without being jingoistic. They don't have to be one in the same. But this is rather subjective you know.
Patriotism does not always equal chauvanism and jingoism. You don't need to go around brandishing the flag or give absolute deference to your military and government to be a patriot. |
2011-05-03, 17:59 | Link #13 |
On a mission
Author
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Your identity is partially defined by where you live, so it's only natural to appreciate it. One way to develop it is to associate with a group.
Now, when nationalism is taken to the extreme and there arises a desire to subjugate others or to cause hostility, that can be a problem and really does happen. But this can happen with any group.
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2011-05-03, 18:00 | Link #14 |
Lurker with free time
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Portugal
Age: 31
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Nationality is and... identity. You're born somewhere, raised somewhere, taught somewhere. And somewhere happens to have a society, a culture and a history attached to it. So you live somewhere, a land with it's own identity and somehow, you belong to/in it. You're "of" it.
It's associating yourself with a land, a origin and a group of individuals united by a national identity. When proud of something your country's scientist or football players did because (supposedly) they did it for your country and you all share the same trait being "X"ese. This doesn't always apply, everything has exceptions. It was more important a century back, at least in Europe, when losing a war meant the country/kingdom lost and the people of the country would be subjugated by the conquerors. (WWII, France, La Résistance Française) Nowadays, it's common for people to give their nationality importance, specially if they had to recently fight for it. My case: I'm Portuguese and guess what, our country is probably has useless and worthless as you can get, we're Europe's idiots... You get the picture. So I can't say I'm proud of my country. However, I fell some pride, deep inside of me, of what my ancestors did centuries past because (probably) I recognize this present was only possible because of them and I'm sure that at the time they did it for their country. It's kinda of irrational, isn't it? Humans are like that... But being excessive in one's pride can only end badly, worst case, xenophobia. After all: Your freedom ends where the other's begins.
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2011-05-03, 18:07 | Link #15 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I think its amusing and entertaining to study and enjoy the culture my dna pool (or the pools of others) spawned from. And if there are festivals and holidays involved, so much the better. Its fun to live a city with a panoply of various cultural festivals.
And that's about as serious as I think it should get My DNA pool is the result of a "rich history" of various people stealing cattle, land, and women from each other and arguing over who had the shiniest sword all across western and northern Europe. Every so often some grander thug would crown themselves a king in the mudfight. So its nice to pick out the bits that are fun and go with those.
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2011-05-03, 22:32 | Link #16 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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With regards to nationalism, I find it rather lacking in where I live - the general opinion seems like "let's run if Malaysia invades us". For the past 40 years, there has always been this sentiment that the state next door is our enemy, but given our size, we should just give up.
Besides, we are already fighting amongst ourselves as of late. I am more inclined to think that in an event of war, our standing army will only be 30% of what can be mobilised. The rest will just hide in their homes or run elsewhere.
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2011-05-04, 01:55 | Link #17 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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2011-05-04, 10:27 | Link #18 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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And their military is bigger than ours, have better rifles, and commandos who have seen real combat experience.
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2011-05-04, 10:48 | Link #19 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 32
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How's that for nationalism? |
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2011-05-04, 11:13 | Link #20 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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I don't think I would have a bone to pick if they cleaned up their corrupted political system. Otherwise, I'd join the anti-China side of SEA.
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