The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll [2006 TV ep. 13]

[arcticphoenix16]

Wow, the academic level of this discussion is more crazy than any other anime/gaming forums I've been to. Haruhi wins!

[Truth-kun]

Haruhi brings the most out of Her disciples. Hahaha. And to think that this series is only a portion of the whole Suzumiya Haruhi series! Amazing.

[Deathkillz]

meh and some say that watching too much TV is bad for you -___- it can be quite educational and trains our mind *watches more*

[Lost]

Technically, this isn't even close to mainstream TV; at least, not where I live. No way this Gem can be compared to TV

[Vexx]

Seriously... don't take *any* of us as particularly experts at this. There are a pile of decently written books for the educated layperson that explain these ideas much more clearly than anyone can in a forum. I've forgotten more about Hamiltonian matrices, Hilbert spaces, topology, and other forms of physics-related math than I care to contemplate. And I'm adding to my reading list some books I need to reread to make sure I'm actually articulating concepts properly (I know I pureed a few up there in the posts because of the brevity issue in a thread).

[Ardee]

Originally Posted by Truth-kun

Poor Kyon gets all the hate in this episode.

And here's another chain of reasoning why it's probably not deserved:

First step, why is "Kyon" the subject of discussion out of all the people in the world? Because he's the one we see talking to Haruhi. Second, why does she confide in him (This time and in general)? It's something about the type of person he is, and his personality. Third, what type of resonse do you get of of someone with his personality? Well, the dull "I see" kind.

In other words, if he were the type of person to give a more exuberant response, then he wouldn't be the type of person she'd be talking to about it and we wouldn't have seen the conversation to have this discussion. It's a variant of the Anthropic Prinicple

(Miraculously, this must be the only forum thread in existence where that phrase doesn't have to be explained!)

[Jacalee]

Originally Posted by Noppapana

if she was so straightforward, why doesnt she confess her feelings to Kyon ?
She can also be dissapointed in other ppl like in episode 4

I suppose every audience could know the feeling of Haruhi to Kyon.

She doesn‘t represent such a passion as ep 13 in ep 4 (she guesses the chairman of computer association just catchs a May Syndrome.) and doesn't feels any disappointment. Ordinarily she is an optimistic girl, isn't she?

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Noppapana

what do you mean with Kyonism ?

Haruhiism = the belief that Haruhi is 'God' and has created and controls the universe.
Kyonism = the belief that Kyon is in fact the one who designed everything and is currently calling the shots.

Basically, in light of how everything seems to go the way that's best for Kyon (whether he admits he likes it or not), and not always so for Haruhi (see episodes 5 and 13), I find it hard to believe that Haruhi is in fact in control of everything. Rather, I'm thinking that Haruhi does indeed create data like Yuki described, but Kyon is the one who decides what data is created. The series and the novels are riddled with microscopic clues to this effect.
In the novel, Kyon says something to the effect of how he always wished he could be the sidekick of some incredible person that gets to have all the fun without the responsibility or danger. Maybe even coming in at a crucial moment with an astute observation and giving the hero the opportunity to save the day. Well, that's exactly what happened, right?
Also, in episode five, it's obvious that Haruhi wants to go tromping around alone with Kyon, but instead Kyon gets what he wants and ends up alone with Mikuru. In thirteen, Haruhi desperately wants to find clues regarding Asakura, but Kyon wants her to just leave the whole thing alone. Why couldn't Haruhi unconciously create clues for herself to find?

[Truth-kun]

^

While your Kyonism theory is possible, we still cannot ignore the fact given to us by the story, especially in Episode 5 where Itsuki said something like Kyon is a perfect normal human being.

This might explain something about Haruhi's inconsistency on "what she wants" iff she is god.

Originally Posted by from Memento

The problem is, sometimes she does not believe that her attempt and ability will produce something especially when she thinks her wish is unreachable to begin with. I think this is the same reason as to why she failed to get a one on one pairing with Kyon back in episode 5 because back then, she believed that Kyon is either uninterested in her or out of her reach.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Truth-kun

^

While your Kyonism theory is possible, we still cannot ignore the fact given to us by the story, especially in Episode 5 where Itsuki said something like Kyon is a perfect normal human being.

True. That's where Haruhi comes in. 'Smokescreen' is a good term. He doesn't want to be special himself, but generating all that data would make him special. So, someone else has to generate it for him. And seriously, if you look from Itsuki's perspective, I doubt that thought would even cross your mind. And if it did, there'd be no way to prove it. Heck, I can't prove it - but I think the possibility is very high. And it fits with the story's love of deliberate confusion

[Kazu-kun]

If Haruhi is his 'Smokescreen' why does he get all the attention? you said that he doesn't want to be special, but HE IS special: he's the love interest of the three main girls, he also has been called "the chosen one" (chosen by Haruhi), and he gets involved in all kind of life threatening situations (ie: he was almost killed by Ryouko). Kyon wanted to be the sidekick, and that's clearly not the role he gets to play here.
I think that what makes Kyon to be so important is not any kind of hidden power, but the fact that he is just a normal human.
Also that's a huge part of what makes this story to be so interesting.

[Noppapana]

Originally Posted by Jacalee

I suppose every audience could know the feeling of Haruhi to Kyon.

She doesn‘t represent such a passion as ep 13 in ep 4 (she guesses the chairman of computer association just catchs a May Syndrome.) and doesn't feels any disappointment. Ordinarily she is an optimistic girl, isn't she?

i meant the episode 4 with the baseball match
She was dissapointed in Kyons performance as clean-up

but the question i am thinking about
What is Haruhi for Kyon ? a friend, a classmate , a clubmember, troublemaker ... after watching this ep
What I know, is that Kyon is a veyr important person for Haruhi

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If Haruhi is his 'Smokescreen' why does he get all the attention? you said that he doesn't want to be special, but HE IS special: he's the love interest of the three main s, he also has been called "the chosen one" (chosen by Haruhi), and he gets involved in all kind of life threatening situations (ie: he was almost killed by Ryouko). Kyon wanted to be the sidekick, and that's clearly not the role he gets to play here.

He gets all the attention he wants. He's got Mikuru, Nagato, and Haruhi practically beating down his bedroom door, which he loves. He does almost get ripped apart by Ryouko, but that was something that just happened on its own. Even though he's been chosen by Haruhi, she still does all the work. He's just there for support and to come in at the perfect time and save the day on occasion. That's what a sidekick does.

[Lost]

He does almost get ripped apart by Ryouko, but that was something that just happened on its own.

If Yuki is a creation of that data by Kyon (assuming he decides what gets created), then by extension, wouldn't Ryouko be his creation too?

[npal]

That doesn't actually prove anything, Ryouko was neutralized ("as I have foreseen"). She didn't succeed, as Kyon-kami cannot be defeated by his mere creations. Kyon is always protected, apparently. I mean, take whatever mythology you like, when lesser beings seek to harm higher deities (and they do for some reason), they get screwed. Kyon creating something that seeked to harm him is not rare in the deity realm.

Kyon is however unconscious of those processes, or he'd have stopped her himself. However Kyon did unconsciously summon Yuki, who defeated the infidel. Everything points to him being a god

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If Haruhi is his 'Smokescreen' why does he get all the attention? you said that he doesn't want to be special, but HE IS special: he's the love interest of the three main girls, he also has been called "the chosen one" (chosen by Haruhi), and he gets involved in all kind of life threatening situations (ie: he was almost killed by Ryouko). Kyon wanted to be the sidekick, and that's clearly not the role he gets to play here.

Perhaps it's because the best place to hide is in plain sight?

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

He gets all the attention he wants. He's got Mikuru, Nagato, and Haruhi practically beating down his bedroom door, which he loves. He does almost get ripped apart by Ryouko, but that was something that just happened on its own. Even though he's been chosen by Haruhi, she still does all the work. He's just there for support and to come in at the perfect time and save the day on occasion. That's what a sidekick does.

Also, who would think that the plain, ordinary human being named Kyon is really calling all the shots?

[Jacalee]

Originally Posted by Noppapana

i meant the episode 4 with the baseball match
She was dissapointed in Kyons performance as clean-up

but the question i am thinking about
What is Haruhi for Kyon ? a friend, a classmate , a clubmember, troublemaker ... after watching this ep
What I know, is that Kyon is a veyr important person for Haruhi

I'm sorry. I make a BIG mistake and have been confused by the episode order...(Orz to death)

Maybe Haruhi is a troublemaker for Kyon in most occasions. However, Kyon seems to get use to Haruhi Troublemaking Machine and somehow trusts in her.

In my opinion, the reason why Kyon doesn't notice Haruhi's love comes down to the readability of the novel. It's more interesting when Kyon keeps a distance between Haruhi's well-known love to him.

Forgive my poor english...if it makes some troubles in reading.

[npal]

^ Of course he's used to Haruhi. She's his creation, too Kyonism is gaining ground

PLUS, she does EVERYTHING he desires without him being responsible for anything (makes Mikuru cosplay, cosplays herself, gets a pc by blackmailing the president, searches around for aliens and the like -whom Kyon SAID he gave up on, yeah right - and generally does everything to keep Kyon occupied without Kyon actively doing anything). Maybe Kyon created Haruhi who gave power to Koizumi and created Yuki, and Mikuru is some sort of moe lesser goddess

[Jacalee]

Who wants to complete the beliefs of Mikuruism, Yukiism and Itsukiism. I guess this job should be very funny, XD.

For example.
Mikuruism: Mikuru is just acting like a Moe loli and knows how to control the Main process...

[C.A.]

Haruhiism in the first place wasn't a belief that she's a god.

Haruhiism in the show itself probably has no meaning, but the word itself is one major reason why Haruhiism exists.

Extreme fanatism has since sprouted from people who read the novels and watched the show, or just watched the show itself. These fanatics call themselves Haruhists, who worship Haruhi and everything in the story, this is Haruhiism. But if Haruhiism the word wasn't in the show, such fanatism may never have started.

Haruhiism isn't fanmade, Haruhiism is official, its kyoani's creation. So every other religions for other characters are started by heretics lol